Design discussion

[Hoodoo]

What's the clamshell device in the original post? It's beautiful!

 

[Exophase]

NAND is cheap and storage is growing. plus it's fast. Keep the nand.

I just don't see the point if you have an internal SD card. Especially if the NAND is so small that it's only useful for recovery purposes. Yes, the internal SD could become corrupt or otherwise go bad but so could any storage. The great thing about it is that it's easily replaceable. If a discrete NAND chip goes bad it's probably not worth servicing. Even an SD socket itself is more serviceable, although it's unlikely it'll get damaged for an SD card you're rarely removing.


Whatever the material cost and board space is it's surely not completely negligible. Also, I don't know how OPT is currently programming the NAND, whether it's done by the assembly house or as part of the in-house mechanical assembly. But whatever they're doing it'd be a lot cheaper if they did it with removable SD cards instead, since it wouldn't have to go through the Pandora and could be done with cheap gang programmers.

 

[dreamer]

360 turning displays

Why 360? 180 would be enough for me

 

[Binky]

360 turning displays

Why 360? 180 would be enough for me

Maybe 180 along two different axes?

 

[albo]

Do we really need turning displays? Maybe if Pandora 2 will be the Ultimate Device turning display could be cool, hope it won't raise too much the price.


Binky close to 1337 posts


EDIT: IMO P2 should have a claimshell design

 

[Binky]

Do we really need turning displays? Maybe if Pandora 2 will be the Ultimate Device turning display could be cool, hope it won't raise too much the price.


Binky close to 1337 posts


EDIT: IMO P2 should have a claimshell design

1. Turning display would probably be more trouble than its worth
   
2. Have I really wasted spent so much time here? Oh well, I suppose that makes me a 1337 4m p057r now
   
3. agree
   

 

[jasay]

What's the clamshell device in the original post? It's beautiful!

Based on the hotlinked image URL I'd say it's a Sharp ISO1.

 

[thatgui]

Do we really need turning displays? Maybe if Pandora 2 will be the Ultimate Device turning display could be cool, hope it won't raise too much the price.


Binky close to 1337 posts


EDIT: IMO P2 should have a claimshell design

Yes we do !! But not as complicated as the hinges sharp relied on with their Zaurus series more like the Lenovo Yoga


Using the touchscreen isn't very comfortable right now - you have to hold both the Pandora and the screen in position. This would get really tricky if a multitouch environment would/should be a possibility for P2.

 

[diligentcircle]

Using the touchscreen isn't very comfortable right now - you have to hold both the Pandora and the screen in position. This would get really tricky if a multitouch environment would/should be a possibility for P2.

I think having a manual hinge lock would also solve this problem, with some other obvious benefits. Plus, isn't the idea of rotating the hinge or flipping the hinge backwards patented? That's what the wiki says, anyway.

 

[ShleeDragon]

• There is a little bit of confusion about the NAND and the reason for it. The NAND is more heavy duty in terms of damage, better read/write speeds and better support with the SOC.
  The OS is stored on the NAND and reallllllllly doesn't change that much - the SD includes the content with 90% of the I/O and allows for us to mix things up.
  This is the bottom line and Id assume most of the real devs could confirm more reasons.
  

• The more moving/hinging parts the P2 has - the deeper and crueler kind of hell we place craig/ED and everyone else involved in.
  

 

[Binky]

How much size/cost/complexity would be added by putting a touch-pad on the bottom?

 

[Exophase]

There is a little bit of confusion about the NAND and the reason for it. The NAND is more heavy duty in terms of damage, better read/write speeds and better support with the SOC. The OS is stored on the NAND and reallllllllly doesn't change that much - the SD includes the content with 90% of the I/O and allows for us to mix things up. This is the bottom line and Id assume most of the real devs could confirm more reasons.

Read/write speeds aren't a given at all. The SD interface is only a limiting factor if the underlying NAND technology is faster, or if you have a bunch of them that can be accessed in parallel like on an SSD. And even if it is faster, is it really important? Who is relying on access speed from NAND? And discrete NAND won't be more "heavy duty" than NAND on an SD.. not that it really matters very much for any sane usage patterns, but if an internal SD goes bad you can easily replace it.


One reason Pandora has built-in NAND is because it's on the same package as the RAM. That probably won't happen next time. Maybe in the past there were limited SD interfaces but today it's common to see at least 4 or 5 of them on an SoC.

 

[notaz]

Well for pandora1 there was no other choice, all 3 OMAP's SD interfaces are in use (3rd is for wifi). Wifi chip can also be connected through SPI, but I think MWeston mentioned it can't be due to muxing limitations.

 

[thatgui]

I think having a manual hinge lock would also solve this problem, with some other obvious benefits. Plus, isn't the idea of rotating the hinge or flipping the hinge backwards patented? That's what the wiki says, anyway.

This is simple a matter of taste - I rarely used the touchscreen of the Pandora, simply because the physical controls where always easier to reach. And reading isn't also very comfortable for me holding the Pandora "sideways". The fact there is just the screen you'll see, and that you can hold it with one Hand is the only thing that leads me to have a jealous look on Android/iOS device from time to time.


Hard to tell if every mechanical posibillity to flip the screen backwards is already patented, but I doubt that. Rotating hinges should be avoided though as they are too complicated and thatfore too expensive to produce / repair.

How much size/cost/complexity would be added by putting a touch-pad on the bottom?

why ? whats the benefit of having a touchpad ???

 

[Binky]

How much size/cost/complexity would be added by putting a touch-pad on the bottom?

why ? whats the benefit of having a touchpad ???

Would make stock android more comfortable to use: all that swipe/pinch-to-zoom/etc could be done with your middle fingers


With practice, you could probably hit the (large) icons without a cursor


Also, a more familiar pointer-control device for them as don't like using the nubs, and find the touchscreen uncomfortable

 

[sirthunder516]

Would it be a good policy to add hardware with no stock purpose?


e.g.


spare buttons


spare leds


a cheap lcd behind the logo on the lid


some external GPIO header pins


an internal usb connector


etc

Having spare buttons would be great, since they could function for things like play/pause if multitasking with a media player in the background. The same goes for a cheap LCD on the lid, it could be useful for media functions.

 

[Exophase]

Well for pandora1 there was no other choice, all 3 OMAP's SD interfaces are in use (3rd is for wifi). Wifi chip can also be connected through SPI, but I think MWeston mentioned it can't be due to muxing limitations.

Don't know the muxing layout exactly, but if you take away a parallel NAND interface you're liable to free up a whole bunch of pins, so there's a good chance of new mux opportunities arising..


Probably wouldn't be a problem with a newer SoC with more SD interfaces, but if push comes to shove you can move some to USB + external controllers if you really have to.

 

[Caine]

I disagree. While it is great to have L1/R1, the quality of the buttons is tremendously disappointing. They are easily the worst controls on the Pandora.

Could we explore this a bit further? I mean I agree that the quality could be improved, but to me the weak point seems to me purely a matter of ergonomy. I think the click response is fine, don't you? Couldn't we just change out the plastic corners for some rounder rubber ones (at the expense of the continuity of the case geometry)?

A bit of a late reaction, but no I don't. I have a unit from the batch with misplaced switches, so I'll have to take your word for it that it is better on newer units.


Perhaps it is time to order a second unit, how long is two months these days?

 

[bismuthdrummer]

A bit of a late reaction, but no I don't. I have a unit from the batch with misplaced switches, so I'll have to take your word for it that it is better on newer units.


Perhaps it is time to order a second unit, how long is two months™ these days?

Not sure, I got mine used from another forum member about a year ago. Been through PTOD and 4 cracked cases, but she still chugs on. It certainly seems like production is solid now though, thanks to the stalwart efforts of our beloved OPT.


Anyway, the shoulders are fine, very decent IMHO. My right shoulder button feels kinda broken because of a crack in the bottom casing. Even still, it is playable. As with all of my design tastes for this device, I'd like to see gentle changes like slightly more finger-friendly shoulders, rather than some crazy circular coins, or small flat buttons, or the like.

 

[ShleeDragon]

There should be a button dedicated and used with all software.


1) Start/Pause


2) Options


3) Pandora button triggers overlay - Quit/Minimise.