Current Keyboard Layout

[Grench]

Starting with ED's layout from the original post in this thread. I organized a few things and made some tweaks.

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/b766912420e62d3618bb682251e50f5f

Explanation of changes:

Thematically changed so no 'messy word labels' exist on letter/number keys in the main keyboard area.

Simplification wherever possible.

ESC moved top left so it lives much as it does on a normal keyboard. No hunting for it. Pause added as Fn+Esc as it has a dual Pause/Break function (they're one code - 'Break' is Ctrl+pause) similar in nature to Esc.

Brightness control key and label simplified. Pressing the key increases brightness one 'step' at a time to maximum then loops to off and then increases again. Those 'in the know' could use shift+Brightness to progressively dim the display. Fn+Brightness increases keyboard backlight one 'step' at a time to maximum then loops to off and then increases again. Those 'in the know' could use Fn+Shift+Brightness to progressively dim the keyboard. I recommend off+4 levels for each control. Off, minimum, 33%, 66%, maximum. Finer control could be gained in the hardware menu settings.

Power button re-worked to reality. Primary key function is ON and 'Sus' for suspend to disk/nand/SD. Fn layer function is to power off (shut down) the unit. It could still have a 'normal power symbol' on it, but this is the actual functionality that the button needs to cover. Simple 'screen off standby mode' is assumed to be handled with the lid closed sensor.

HWctrl is designed to call up the hardware control/configuration menu. Individual radio and port controls and digitizer calibration and keyboard input tester would be found there and potentially other undreamed of configuration options. ScrLk added on the Fn layer to this key - not that anyone is likely going to need this key on a Pyra other than console emulation, it needed to go somewhere.

Help button added. I envision this pulling up the documentation on Pyra usage. Basically a new user hand holding guide. Experienced users should be able to map this key to other uses - given it's presence near the game pad controls, it could be incorporated into games to generate the game's help menu as well. PrtSc was added as the Fn layer to this key - which should be a good spot for it as it normally has a place on the upper right area of a normal keyboard.

Alt/Start flipped. The key is Alt. Sometimes programs will use this as Start, but it's really the left Alt key. Let's call it what it is, 'Alt' and nickname it Start.

Ctrl/Select flipped. The key is Ctrl. Sometimes programs will use this as Select, but it's really the left Ctrl key. Let's call it what it is, 'Ctrl' and nickname it Select.

Super key needs it's own mapping - no Fn layer. Otherwise it would not be possible to use Super in combination with another key/symbol that is on the Fn layer. The logo graphic looks good there too.

Insert returned to it's rightful home with Delete, Home, end, PgUp and PgDn. They're a set. We don't need to break them up.

Backspace put where it belongs - on the top right of the main keyboard area. That real estate is too important for /? to live on.

<> put back on the shift layer of ,. for compatibility. ;: are already a broken pair and can live on Fn.

Several symbols shifted about a bit to arrange them by type.

\ by /

[ by ]

{ by }

=+- together

_ by |

German letters are all 4 together now.

Direct Spanish support added (needed ¿¡Ñ). Alert: This DOES imply that Fn+shift+N = Ñ as Fn+N would be the lowercase version. We had 3 keys though, and that's all it took to add Spanish.

A few other label tweaks for clarity and neatness.

Overall, the ED primary design and functions are intact.

Thoughts?

 

[WizardStan]

Maybe I'll just shut up, and go install Android and Wayland and all the stuff from Debian default repos to my Pandora without a hitch now

No?As far as I know there are a lot of other problems preventing Android from just working on the Pandora. Unless I'm confused, what does this have to do with the keyboard driver?

 

[FaeMinx]

Starting with ED's layout from the original post in this thread. I organized a few things and made some tweaks.

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/b766912420e62d3618bb682251e50f5f


Thoughts?

I like it.
Much much better than the one in the OP.


It's clean, logical, and everything is easy to find at a glance. Really nice.


Love what you've done with all the buttons at the top especially.


That's exactly how brightness should be controlled IMO... So long as we can change the values to suit personal preferences.


We absolutely should have only 1 hardware key, and toggle everything from the menu it pulls up.


What is that blank key at the top right of the keyboard? A free user definable key? That would be kind of nice... We could tongue in cheak call it the 'any' key.


Then even Homer could use the Pyra without getting confused...


Edit: oh, that's backspace is it? Why no label?

 

[Grench]

Starting with ED's layout from the original post in this thread. I organized a few things and made some tweaks.

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/b766912420e62d3618bb682251e50f5f

Thoughts?

I like it.Much much better than the one in the OP.

It's clean, logical, and everything is easy to find at a glance. Really nice.

Love what you've done with all the buttons at the top especially.

That's exactly how brightness should be controlled IMO... So long as we can change the values to suit personal preferences.

We absolutely should have only 1 hardware key, and toggle everything from the menu it pulls up.

What is that blank key at the top right of the keyboard? A free user definable key? That would be kind of nice... We could tongue in cheak call it the 'any' key.

Then even Homer could use the Pyra without getting confused...

Edit: oh, that's backspace is it? Why no label?

It's labeled with a unicode font symbol for backspace - essentially a left pointing box with an X in it. We could label it BS if we wanted to... I've always wanted a BS key. But that may not be a good idea...

But yes, you're seeing the Backspace key but for whatever reason that particular unicode symbol/font isn't showing up for you.

Edit/add:

In case anyone was wondering about my removal of the 'Break' key that ED had in his design, there isn't actually a 'Break' key on your normal keyboard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Break_key

Calling it 'Break' is simply vestigial nomenclature. The 'original' key name was Pause/Break as one key, not two. Pause is sometimes modified with Ctrl to make, "Ctrl+Break".

 

[Saber]

...

Please may we have a top-level ESCAPE key? I would find it very useful for VIM and for the games Might and Magic III-V (and, I suspect, the Wizardry series as well, and many other DOS games; 


...

Escape could be where Menu is(in my v6.0 layout in my sig) and Menu could be Fn + q. 

 

[Saber]

Starting with ED's layout from the original post in this thread. I organized a few things and made some tweaks.

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/b766912420e62d3618bb682251e50f5f


Thoughts?

I like it.


Much much better than the one in the OP.


It's clean, logical, and everything is easy to find at a glance. Really nice.

...

You don't find commonly used keys _ and ? are a little too close to keyboard Fn in that layout? 

 

[Grench]

Starting with ED's layout from the original post in this thread. I organized a few things and made some tweaks.

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/b766912420e62d3618bb682251e50f5f

Thoughts?

I like it.Much much better than the one in the OP.

It's clean, logical, and everything is easy to find at a glance. Really nice.

...

You don't find commonly used keys _ and ? are a little too close to keyboard Fn in that layout?

If we were in a perfect world with unlimited keys, I would want two Fn and two shift on the keyboard and reserve the shoulders as mouse buttons. Instead we're key constrained.

What would you have them switch with? Everything on the left side is 'grouped' by type, so you're talking about moving whole blocks of keys. | and _ live together in this respect - so to move them left we would need to displace 3 keys in order to give _ and ? more favorable left side positions. That would mean relegating at least one of these sets to the right side:

\/

[]

{}

<>

,.

;:

=+-

So, yes, _ and ? are important too. As are all of the above sets that are already in the prime positions. Plus, lower right is where most users will be looking for the ? key anyway.

So, no, I'm not in favor of moving them. The disruption would be greater than the gain. Keyboard only users can 'reach over' with the left thumb since they're not holding the device with fingers on the shoulders anyway - gives them a taller grip.

 

[Saber]

Starting with ED's layout from the original post in this thread. I organized a few things and made some tweaks.

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/b766912420e62d3618bb682251e50f5f


Thoughts?

I like it.
Much much better than the one in the OP.


It's clean, logical, and everything is easy to find at a glance. Really nice.


...

You don't find commonly used keys _ and ? are a little too close to keyboard Fn in that layout?

If we were in a perfect world with unlimited keys, I would want two Fn and two shift on the keyboard and reserve the shoulders as mouse buttons. Instead we're key constrained.


What would you have them switch with? Everything on the left side is 'grouped' by type, so you're talking about moving whole blocks of keys. | and _ live together in this respect - so to move them left we would need to displace 3 keys in order to give _ and ? more favorable left side positions. That would mean relegating at least one of these sets to the right side:


\/


[]


{}


<>


,.


;:


=+-


So, yes, _ and ? are important too. As are all of the above sets that are already in the prime positions. Plus, lower right is where most users will be looking for the ? key anyway.


So, no, I'm not in favor of moving them. The disruption would be greater than the gain. Keyboard only users can 'reach over' with the left thumb since they're not holding the device with fingers on the shoulders anyway - gives them a taller grip.

I can't do much about the choices made in your layout or ED's, but my 6.0 layout shows it is absolutely possible to not have to displace { } [ ] or any generally used keys to the right half side. 

 

[comradekingu]

{ } and [ ] is meant to be on the right hand side...

Same with comma and dot.

Edit: Putting R-alt and no L-alt on shoulder means you either dont have an alternate graphics layer, or that there is no way to do alt-combos with shoulders.

Putting shift Ctrl L-alt and Fn on shoulders is a quick way to leave the user unexplainably in a different tty. Ctrl+alt+F* is (Ctrl+alt+((Fn+number*))

 

[Eight Bit]

I like _wb_'s idea better, to put the symbols of a single US key above each other on two keys better.  It makes sense and it will make it a whole lot easier to remember which symbol is on which shifted key.

Though already compromised by the many revisions, the main idea of this keyboard was to have the language specific keys for French and German on the spots where they are expected, on a US standard base.

The keyboard is already full, I don't think it's a good idea to stuff Spanish support in there too.

Here's my latest revision with Esc unmodified on the bottom keyboard, I had to move tab to Fn+Space though

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/0c4d4563e53a0b04cb4a121087242847

 

[rygD]

I only noticed this was a somewhat new thread about 16 hours ago, as I thought it was an older one.  I finally managed to find time to read through everything (which is why ED wants posts short).

Most of my concerns have been discussed (I would rather have Esc and Backspace near the main keyboard, and Backspace off the gaming buttons if possible.  NO MOUSE BUTTONS ON SHOULDER BUTTONS BY DEFAULT.  Caps Lock is unimportant).

Do we have an updated version of the layout from the OP with all of the approved/accepted changes by ED?  This will help refine what he wants more than everyone continuing to make their own independent layouts ( I haven't looked at those on the last several pages yet). 

 

[FaeMinx]

Starting with ED's layout from the original post in this thread. I organized a few things and made some tweaks.

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/b766912420e62d3618bb682251e50f5f


Thoughts?

I like it.
Much much better than the one in the OP.


It's clean, logical, and everything is easy to find at a glance. Really nice.


...

You don't find commonly used keys _ and ? are a little too close to keyboard Fn in that layout?

Is that the only issue with this layout?
Even that would be a non issue if fn were sticky, or locked with double press (is that the same thing?).

 

[ible]

I am hoping to get F-keys on the number keys, since that is a (much) more natural place for them.  From an American standpoint, anything extra on the number keys (like accents or whatever) looks very cluttered, since they already have extra symbols on them (5%, etc.).  Making them F-keys makes it less cluttered and more natural.

Here's a twist on Saber's, putting shifted-key-pairs next to each other, and keeping backspace off the gamebuttons:

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/bfa9818322027dfb9a6b6479c4376306

F11/F12 can also switch places with Pause/Menu on backspace/Enter, as that's a small matter.  KB brightness from Shift+brightness, and note the extra mouse buttons on a physical button.

If a user doesn't need to use a dead diacritic for each of those on the keyboard, they could optionally remap them to the accented letter they want. 

 

[comradekingu]

Clutter is stuff where it doesnt belong too, if you want F-keys labled on numbers, it means F11 and F12 are visibly out of place, reflecting negativly on the outlook as a whole.

Putting symbols all over the typewriter-area is cluttered, and it doesnt belong there, in no way better than having 3 things on numbers, which is not too different from a non-US keyboard.

Then you get an alternate graphics layer that works, for more people. And you solve a lot of issues in return for losing being able to type F-keys and F-key combos one step easier when shoulders are used.

 

[Neelix]

Clutter is stuff where it doesnt belong too, if you want F-keys labled on numbers, F11 and F12 are out of place.

Putting symbols all over the typewriter-area is cluttered and non-standard.

Non-standard it may be, but hardly unprecedented, and on a keyboard this size it is necessary in order to provide the required functionality.

Check out these two professionally made compact keyboards. One made by HTC, the other by Nokia. Notice that in both cases every single letter key has another symbol on it.



-Neelix

 

[Saber]

...

NO MOUSE BUTTONS ON SHOULDER BUTTONS BY DEFAULT.  Caps Lock is unimportant).

Did you have Caps Lock enabled here?

Starting with ED's layout from the original post in this thread. I organized a few things and made some tweaks.

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/b766912420e62d3618bb682251e50f5f


Thoughts?

I like it.
Much much better than the one in the OP.


It's clean, logical, and everything is easy to find at a glance. Really nice.


...

You don't find commonly used keys _ and ? are a little too close to keyboard Fn in that layout?

Is that the only issue with this layout?
Even that would be a non issue if fn were sticky, or locked with double press (is that the same thing?).

It's more of an inconvenience for one thumb to hop back and forth for one symbol. Question mark is used often.

 

[Saber]

A variation of 6.0 was appended to my sig. 

6.1: http://i.imgur.com/06awgsK.png

Spoiler

Changes:

• Reshuffling of umlauted vowels. 
• SysRq is Alt + Menu(not Fn + Menu). WizardStan and I discussed this in the latter half of the it's the keyboard thread. 

Editor for this layout is here.

 

[comradekingu]

Clutter is stuff where it doesnt belong too, if you want F-keys labled on numbers, F11 and F12 are out of place.


Putting symbols all over the typewriter-area is cluttered and non-standard.

Non-standard it may be, but hardly unprecedented, and on a keyboard this size it is necessary in order to provide the required functionality.


Check out these two professionally made compact keyboards. One made by HTC, the other by Nokia. Notice that in both cases every single letter key has another symbol on it.

compactkeyboards.png


-Neelix

Those are toy keyboards.

It is not necessary to do so, and it means less functionality if you do.

Marketing something at the general mass with that kind of clutter isn't possible, and it means you sell less, even if you have a market that puts up with it.

Alternate graphics, familiar placement and full layout is something you cant re-invent. If you change something and dont get efficiency back for it, something is lost.

The market for casual, english only keyboards, is gone. Some part of that is bad, but the ones who want it back are the ones who want _real keboards_.

 

[bzar]

Those are toy keyboards.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

 

[comradekingu]

Between what i deem toy keyboards, and real keyboards, are the reasons stated in the middle of my argument.

The point of which is to not make something gimped, as mobile keyboards often are, just because its on a mobile device.

Same reason you wouldn't want a laptop keyboard on a desktop.