Culture Fund

[Alex.]

It would be great to see a 'budget' games store for Pandora ($5-8 per title), really great actually! It would give individual developers the motivation to work on ambitious projects with the assurance that they will get financially rewarded for their efforts. Naturally, the store should also sell higher-class commercial titles developed by larger teams. And every game should have a solid demo of course

 

[Exophase]

What also has to be considered is that some things can't be sold. Emulators and other applications under GPL for example, or most game ports. Still, there is work put into them, and rewarding the developers for it makes sense.

Guess that'd encourage people to do more original work too.

 

[geo12]

Can't we use the Zodiac as an example. You had to pay for software, and look what happened to it.

 

[Kings]

It would be great to see a 'budget' games store for Pandora ($5-8 per title), really great actually! It would give individual developers the motivation to work on ambitious projects with the assurance that they will get financially rewarded for their efforts. Naturally, the store should also sell higher-class commercial titles developed by larger teams. And every game should have a solid demo of course

I think what's going to really sell the Pandora is the ability for consumers to drop ~$330 on an amazing machine, and then pack it with everything they will ever need and then some. Lets say that an average consumer has some spendable income to drop on a portable device. The consumer is going to see a few ads and look up a review or two, buy the device and load it with everything from games to videos. All which cost more and more of that spendable income. The average consumer isn't going to hack a PSP to play homebrew. They end up paying huge amounts of cash for this name brand device and software. The Pandora is an apt name because its the end of this cycle, its opened it up. The more it gets around the better, word of mouth is the best kind of advertising. Keeping total cost down for the average consumer is a must, or it will just be a small enthusiast project. Getting more people using the Pandora should lead to more donations.

A games store is a good idea as long as it isn't instantly implemented and has some limited testing to make it work. $5-8 is a high starting point but a good endpoint. If the store were to have titles $2-3 than someone will trade that song they were going to download for a good game. Much more plausible for someone who remembers when homebrew meant moonshine. And even more helpful to the generation of ipod fans that don't know what an mp3 player is. iTunes is an example of allowing people to pay for music, why not games and apps. As long as Pandora can grow free, then you can throw in a store. And keep the source open, just because your essentially selling it doesn't mean it should just be a binary. The store should also make it clear that all the money is going to the devs and is there as a way to support them. It might even convince the odd coder or two to develop on the Pandora.

And if your too lazy to read the whole post: store good, just not right now or during release.

 

[Alex.]

The size of Pandora's userbase and its general software preferences will be important factors in deciding what a good starting price for a game would be. However, if a game would cost $2 (70% of a bus ticket's price over here by the way :unsure, then it would likely be very small and lackluster, of course unless it was a sure thing that it would sell thousands. Further more, distributing the source code of something you intend to make a profit from would not be a very good idea. What's there to stop anyone from recompiling it, putting together some replacement assets, and distributing the result for free?

I really like your idea of 0% store commission, wouldn't that be really something?

 

[CoMiKe]

What about licensing games the same way as Total Commander does?

I mean, it's shareware, but it's not time nor feature limited.

So you can use the shareware version unlimitedly, although there's a window remembering you should pay for it that is removed when you pay.

TC's author (Christian Ghisler) says that it's going very well with that kind of license.

In a Pandora game, that window could be replaced by showing a screen at start remembering you should pay (something not too annoying, like 3 to 5 seconds).

Perhaps that would be a way to strenghten of "donations".

 

[Orkie]

However, if a game would cost $2 (70% of a bus ticket's price over here by the way :unsure

Last time I went on a bus, it cost me the equivalent of $8.40 for a 10 minute journey. I know it is quite hard to believe but that's what you get for living in the countryside with a single bus company able to charge whatever they like .

 

[Alex.]

Hopefully for that price you get clean seats and stink-free walls though

 

[Orkie]

Hah, you'd think so .

 

[Kings]

The idea behind $2 is that it's not that much so people wont go out of their way to obtain it for free, $2 is more than $0 and the point with keeping it open is the whole point of having it open in the first place.

I would have no problems hosting a store that %100 of the $ goes to devs, there would be a max file size though.

And another option that was pointed out was a bounty system. And I have no idea if that will work at all but it would be worth a try.

Personally I would have no problems paying $15 for a solid app that I would use every day. People pay for good stuff, Sins of a Solar empire is a good example. No copy protection, no cd needed, online sales and download on to as many of your computers as you use. In the first month all the devs were surprised with how popular the game became and how it topped sale charts.

 

[goobers]

However, if a game would cost $2 (70% of a bus ticket's price over here by the way :unsure

Last time I went on a bus, it cost me the equivalent of $8.40 for a 10 minute journey. I know it is quite hard to believe but that's what you get for living in the countryside with a single bus company able to charge whatever they like .


Yeah, it's over £6 return to the nearest shopping place to me (bluewater). Utterly ridiculous!

 

[J201605]

The size of Pandora's userbase and its general software preferences will be important factors in deciding what a good starting price for a game would be. However, if a game would cost $2 (70% of a bus ticket's price over here by the way :unsure, then it would likely be very small and lackluster, of course unless it was a sure thing that it would sell thousands. Further more, distributing the source code of something you intend to make a profit from would not be a very good idea. What's there to stop anyone from recompiling it, putting together some replacement assets, and distributing the result for free?

I really like your idea of 0% store commission, wouldn't that be really something?

I think developers would be more successful selling a game for $2 than $10, two examples being your game sqdef and retrovirus rts. I think that 50 percent of people would have had no problem kicking you $2 for sqdef and you would have made $2000 from the 4000 archive downloads where if you charged somewhere around $10 i think hardly anyone would have bought it like with retrovirusrts which seems to be a good polished game but a commercial failure because of its high price (i may be wrong but it seems like noone has it).

 

[OrR]

Can't we use the Zodiac as an example. You had to pay for software, and look what happened to it.

The Zodiac is a great example! You had to pay for software and the community was positive about it. Thus we got a huge amount of really awesome games, more than the GP2X could ever dream of. We also got free emulators and games, though not as many as the 2X. For me, the GP2X was a joke compared to my Zodiac. I love the idea behind it and some of the things that have been done on it but overall, hardware and software mostly suck. I don't want that to happen with the Pandora and there is a realistic chance this might change if the community attitude about spending money on good stuff changes, whether it's via paying or donations.

 

[fawny]

... I think that 50 percent of people would have had no problem kicking you $2 for sqdef and you would have made $2000 from the 4000 archive downloads where if you charged somewhere around $10 i think hardly anyone would have bought it ...

50% strikes me as being a tad on the optimistic side. What are you basing that figure on ? If there are any devs who are overwhelmed with the level of donations they receive, they keep very quiet about it. On the other hand , it is not that difficult to find suggestions that donations do not amount to a hill of beans.

You can not take the number of downloads as a guide as it shows the downloads for the life of the project. Sqdef has been around for over 18 months - long before it won the compo - and has been through several updates. From this we can see that one of the most acclaimed and discussed projects has a pitiful number of downloads - especially when you take into account that people who play it will account for more than one download when they get an update. Will the few who do donate, donate again for every upgrade ?

If, even after considering how weak the interest in homebrew is, you still want a reward system - how about the following :-

Evil Dragon could set up a subscription only section in his archive. Devs who want rewards would upload their work to it and place a demo in the free section. ED could then divide the subscription money among the devs based upon the number of downloads once a month (less a percentage to cover his costs). I imagine it could be largly automated. There would have to be a way to prevent a dev downloading his own work a million times a month - (IP check ?) :lol:

It would be interesting to see how many devs, given the option, would select to place their releases in the reward scheme.

 

[Alex.]

Sqdef has been around for over 18 months - long before it won the compo - and has been through several updates.

Hehe more like 9 months But you're right, cumulative downloads are deceiving and can only give a very generous approximation of how many people actually downloaded it.

If, even after considering how weak the interest in homebrew is

That's only because 80% of GP2X owners around here got one for emulating retro systems. Some of those may give original content a chance, but many will not since they already have more games on their hands than they have time to play. However, Pandora will be a fresh new system with a larger and more diverse audience. This in addition to a longer lifespan, more powerful hardware, and better inputs will allow for more polished and intense homebrew games that may spark the interest of a larger percent of hardcore emulation fans.

 

[Julius]

However, if a game would cost $2 (70% of a bus ticket's price over here by the way :unsure

Last time I went on a bus, it cost me the equivalent of $8.40 for a 10 minute journey. I know it is quite hard to believe but that's what you get for living in the countryside with a single bus company able to charge whatever they like .


Yeah, it's over £6 return to the nearest shopping place to me (bluewater). Utterly ridiculous!


IMHO that's the price for having public (!) transportation privatised.
Thanks have to go to Theatcher and their dim witted followers I guess.

 

[J201605]

... I think that 50 percent of people would have had no problem kicking you $2 for sqdef and you would have made $2000 from the 4000 archive downloads where if you charged somewhere around $10 i think hardly anyone would have bought it ...

50% strikes me as being a tad on the optimistic side. What are you basing that figure on ? If there are any devs who are overwhelmed with the level of donations they receive, they keep very quiet about it. On the other hand , it is not that difficult to find suggestions that donations do not amount to a hill of beans.

You can not take the number of downloads as a guide as it shows the downloads for the life of the project. Sqdef has been around for over 18 months - long before it won the compo - and has been through several updates. From this we can see that one of the most acclaimed and discussed projects has a pitiful number of downloads - especially when you take into account that people who play it will account for more than one download when they get an update. Will the few who do donate, donate again for every upgrade ?

I was under the impression that the download number reset with each version on the gp2x archive, i may be wrong. Also 50% is just a guess theres obviously no way of knowing, i was just trying to say that charging $10+ not only will you not make nearly as much money but also a dramatically smaller number of people will get to play the game you worked so hard on.

 

[b._.o._.b]

I don't like the idea of any commercial repository of games for the Pandora (you can call it a fund, but lets face it paying for a product makes it commercial). The GP2X has got some great developers that don't have to feel pushed or rushed into making something the buyer of their products demand.
Not much products / emulators of the GP2X are of commercial quality. Sometimes the gui isn't polished enough. Sometimes the product isn't original enough, and sometimes it takes some effort to install it. Only a few devs release commercial quality products and often they are helped by a lot of people testing their games. The commercial games for a handheld as the PSP are made by huge teams of developers. A commercial game for the Pandora will have to compete with games like that.

I see the GP2X and Pandora community more as a playground for talented developers that can learn a lot from other developers and get their code tested by a lot of motivated people.

The donating system is a lot better imho, eventhough it will probably not make anybody rich.

 

[fawny]

Hehe more like 9 months ....

Sorry! I seem to have slipped in an extra 1. Corrected.

That's only because 80% of GP2X owners around here got one for emulating retro systems....

The Federal Reserve appears to be doing everything it can to bring on the worst recession in history. Given the price of the Pandora in this economic climate, it is probably going to have a pretty small user base. As with the GP32 and the GP2X I can see no reason for homebrew appreciation to magically develop, esp. on a device designed around emulation.

As for the reasoning that homebrew is not good enough to be payed for, how dumb is that ?

If dev's were competing for a market share they would have some motivation for polishing up a GUI or making it easier for dumbasses to install. As it stands they don't.

 

[andyB911]

I like OrR's basic suggestion - giving a bit of incentive to donate and making it easier to do so. My concern would be the organisation required to set-up the system and ensure it ran safely without any risk of money going awol. If someone can set it up, then I think it will get people joining.

Easier solutions include giving a list of the donators in releases / giving betas as Francis does with MAME. CoMike's idea of flash screen seems fine too.