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COVID-19 / Coronavirus Pandemic
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Confuzzled
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Front Neurol. 2021; 12: 699582.
Published online 2021 Jul 29. doi: 10.3389/fneur.2021.699582
PMCID: PMC8357992
PMID: 34393978
Cognitive Impairment After COVID-19—A Review on Objective Test Data
and
Wikipedia: Post-intensive care syndrome: Cognitive impairment
Confuzzled
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Wow! Which study are you participating in, where is it registered, and to which institution are you affiliated? I can't wait to see the pre-print. Sounds pretty major!
I'll show it when it gets published, in 55 years. Sit tight! They are working on it.
I mean this unironically. For example:
Effectiveness of a Third Dose of mRNA Vaccines ...
This report describes COVID-19 vaccine effectiveness time frames among people who received their first and second doses of the vaccine series, and effectiveness of third vaccine doses during both Delta- and Omicron-predominant periods.
www.cdc.gov
Waning 2-Dose and 3-Dose Effectiveness of mRNA Vaccines ...
This report describes how vaccine effectiveness against COVID-19–associated emergency department/urgent care visits and hospitalizations was higher after the third dose but decreased with time.
www.cdc.gov
So at the moment, I know no studies that concentrate on "other factors". Where, for example, they body, becomes increasingly ineffective to produce anti-spike white blood-cells and so, the max amount of protection becomes less, and the interest in breaking down the spikes by the body is also less and disappears faster and faster ("wanes"). This interest might be because the body goes: meh, we know spikes; or because the overall response is lower (immuno-deficiency increases). The latter is now being investigated, and hinted at.
Well, we now know this now, and it's not good, protecting you for a shorter and shorter timespan. But the cause? Not yet known.
ps: I tried to find in the papers that your immunity also is less, not only shorter, but I can't find the data (the summaries say you are more protected, just for a shorter time period - which would lead to the conclusion that the body becomes more and more effective at disposing of spikes, and are finished earlier in cleansing the body of the spikes... but I can not find data about amount of spikes v/s amount of anti-spikes in the papers. If the spikes are still there while the protection "waned", then that would mean immunodeficiency, if there is no spikes at all, then we have a stronger antibody response)
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Don't F*ck with the Dutch! https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abk1688
Aphasia seven days after second dose of an mRNA-based SARS-CoV-2 vaccine - PubMed
A second dose of a SARS-CoV-2 vaccination may be followed by ICB. Though the pathophysiology of ICB remains unexplained a causal relation between ICB and the vaccination cannot be excluded. Risk factors for ICB should be carefully monitored in patients undergoing SARS-CoV-2 vaccination.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Confuzzled
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That's a really poor paper. It's basically a VAERS report, and provides no evidence of 'a causal relation between ICB and the vaccination' - the phrase 'cannot be excluded' can be applied to the existence of a teapot floating between the orbits of Earth and Mars. It is of zero evidential value.Corben Dallas got the shot, Corben Dallas is not green anymore. (That, or the boxing in his early years)Aphasia seven days after second dose of an mRNA-based SARS-CoV-2 vaccine - PubMed
A second dose of a SARS-CoV-2 vaccination may be followed by ICB. Though the pathophysiology of ICB remains unexplained a causal relation between ICB and the vaccination cannot be excluded. Risk factors for ICB should be carefully monitored in patients undergoing SARS-CoV-2 vaccination.
Note that the patient was in a poor state of cardiovascular health (He had a previous history of myocardial infarction, arterial hypertension, hyperlipidemia, and nephrolithiasis. Blood pressure was slightly elevated on admission. Blood tests revealed mildly elevated D-dimer, pre-diabetes and hyperuricemia.), and you can reasonably expect a non-zero rate of ICBs in the population of people of his age and state of health. The question, of course, is whether the expected rate has been increased by vaccinations. Thats why VAERS is useful as it gives cluse for epidemiologists to follow up in properly planned studies. It's one event, with no causal relation shown. Don't fall for the availability fallacy, or thinking that correlation is causation.
Russell didn't know me. It wouldn't be the first time I can't remember where I left a thing...
Btw, the page is good, but I didn't like the last paragraph.
Confuzzled
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No, the body does not become increasingly ineffective at producing 'anti-spike white blood cells', unless you are talking about normal age-related changed in the immune system (elderly people have less effective immune systems, which is why they need more protection), or infection with Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV), or treatment with immunosuppressive drugs.I'll show it when it gets published, in 55 years. Sit tight! They are working on it.
I mean this unironically. For example:
Effectiveness of a Third Dose of mRNA Vaccines ...
This report describes COVID-19 vaccine effectiveness time frames among people who received their first and second doses of the vaccine series, and effectiveness of third vaccine doses during both Delta- and Omicron-predominant periods.Waning 2-Dose and 3-Dose Effectiveness of mRNA Vaccines ...
This report describes how vaccine effectiveness against COVID-19–associated emergency department/urgent care visits and hospitalizations was higher after the third dose but decreased with time.
So at the moment, I know no studies that concentrate on "other factors". Where, for example, they body, becomes increasingly ineffective to produce anti-spike white blood-cells and so, the max amount of protection becomes less, and the interest in breaking down the spikes by the body is also less and disappears faster and faster ("wanes"). This interest might be because the body goes: meh, we know spikes; or because the overall response is lower (immuno-deficiency increases). The latter is now being investigated, and hinted at.
Well, we now know this now, and it's not good, protecting you for a shorter and shorter timespan. But the cause? Not yet known.
ps: I tried to find in the papers that your immunity also is less, not only shorter, but I can't find the data (the summaries say you are more protected, just for a shorter time period - which would lead to the conclusion that the body becomes more and more effective at disposing of spikes, and are finished earlier in cleansing the body of the spikes... but I can not find data about amount of spikes v/s amount of anti-spikes in the papers. If the spikes are still there while the protection "waned", then that would mean immunodeficiency, if there is no spikes at all, then we have a stronger antibody response)
After intial stimulation, your body produced enough antibodies to deal with an infection (or vaccination). These antibodies remain in circulation, but naturally fade away. However, the production process by the B-cells also produces memory B-cells, which can start antibody production far faster and in far greater volume if you get infected again. At initial stimulation, it takes about 10 days for antibody production to come to a peak. Afterwards, once you have memory B-cells, its 3-5 days, producing far more. So if you measure antibody levels in the blood, they drop after infection/vaccination, and can get to (effectively) zero: but the memory B-cells are ready in case you get infected again.
SARS-CoV-2–specific memory B cells can persist in the elderly who have lost detectable neutralizing antibodies
Memory B cells (MBCs) can provide a recall response able to supplement waning antibodies (Abs) with an affinity-matured response better able to neutralize variant viruses. We studied a cohort of elderly care home residents and younger staff (median age ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Persistent B cell memory after SARS-CoV-2 vaccination is functional during breakthrough infections - PubMed
Breakthrough SARS-CoV-2 infections in fully vaccinated individuals are considered a consequence of waning immunity. Serum antibodies represent the most measurable outcome of vaccine-induced B cell memory. When antibodies decline, memory B cells are expected to persist and perform their function...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Factsheet for health professionals on COVID-19
Factsheet on the COVID-19 pathogen, surveillance, clinical features, epidemiology, transmission, case management, and public health control measures.
For more details on the process, look at the Wikipedia article on seroconversion. Immunology is notoriously complicated. Most immunologists would say, if you think you understand it, you haven't studied it enough yet. There's a simplified overview here:
BiteSized Immunology | British Society for Immunology
It's part of an overall resource on immune memory and the coronoavirus:
Immune memory and the coronavirus | British Society for Immunology
The current standard of public discussion around immunity, vaccinations, and SARS-COV-2 is dire, partly because people peddling oversimplified, and sometimes just plain wrong descriptions gain far too much exposure. It isn't helped by 'experts' commenting on areas outside of their expertise.
So we just assume the teapot got TCP/IP and send http requests all out the interplanetary space, and wait for a 418 back.
developer.mozilla.org
as for the serious reply, I'll need a few days to go through the text.
418 I'm a teapot - HTTP | MDN
The HTTP 418 I'm a teapot status response code indicates that the server refuses to brew coffee because it is, permanently, a teapot. A combined coffee/tea pot that is temporarily out of coffee should instead return 503. This error is a reference to Hyper Text Coffee Pot Control Protocol...
developer.mozilla.org
as for the serious reply, I'll need a few days to go through the text.
Confuzzled
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Mea culpa - I didn't read through the entire page, and was seduced by the good and clear explanation, which I thought was more succinct than the Wikipedia article.
On the other hand, if you are trying to prove that something doesn't exist, one technique would be to look at all the things that do exist and show they are not the thing that you are trying to show that does not exist. There's some philosophical debate over whether, say, the existence of a teapot has any non-zero evidentiary value if you are trying to show the non-existence of a unicorn. If you have looked at all the things in the Universe, and none of them are unicorns, then you can reasonably conclude unicorns don't exist, so in that process, does finding a teapot whilst searching make you any more certain that unicorns don't exist? Obviously, if it is the last 'thing' you are examining, having exhaustively looked at everything else, then finding the 'thing' is in fact a teapot and not a unicorn has great value. But how about part way through the search?
It is related to the armchair ornithologist, investigating whether all crows are black from the comfort of their armchair on a rainy day. Second problem discussed in this text:
The German "Bundestag" (Federal Day), our Gouverment had a Meeting Yesterday on the Topic of making a Mandatory Vaccination Law (Everyone 18 + shall get a Vaccination), but they ditnt got enough votes, ..
I end up now whit my own Mask Law: Only if its gets too close to the customer or if there are older customers, or if the customer whe get also got a Mask on..
I end up now whit my own Mask Law: Only if its gets too close to the customer or if there are older customers, or if the customer whe get also got a Mask on..
Well, you didn't write the page, just linked to it and taught me things therewith, so thanks.
Nonsense? Looking at all the things that exist is just as impossible as looking at all places and times to see if the thing is there.
I'm sure that unicorn that silently follows after you wherever you search for unicorns is having lots of fun seeing your reasoning. I mean most unicorns just appear and disappear at random, but this one seems to like you.
What was the joke about the travellers on a train through Scotland for the first time ?
They see a black sheep through the windows and the economist says "Oh, I see in Scotland sheeps are black".
Then the engineer says "all we can see is that in Scotland there is at least one black sheep"
And then the mathematician says "all we can say is that in Scotland there's at least one sheep which is black at least on one side".
I don't remember if the original joke had those jobs or others. But I guess the ghost of David Hume smiled at them.
Confuzzled
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I know the sheep joke well.
As for the impossibility of looking at everything, it's the difference between a logical impossibility and a practical impossibility. It's not practical, but there's nothing wrong with the logic of the process.
A mind-blowing demonstration of this is the fact that there exists a decomposition of [a] ball into a finite number of disjoint subsets, which can then be put back together in a different way to yield two identical copies of the original ball. Indeed, the reassembly process involves only moving the pieces around and rotating them without changing their shape. This is otherwise known as the Banach–Tarski paradox. Our geometrical and topological intuition fail us at this point, but the mathematics is clear. I don't pretend to understand it.
As for the impossibility of looking at everything, it's the difference between a logical impossibility and a practical impossibility. It's not practical, but there's nothing wrong with the logic of the process.
A mind-blowing demonstration of this is the fact that there exists a decomposition of [a] ball into a finite number of disjoint subsets, which can then be put back together in a different way to yield two identical copies of the original ball. Indeed, the reassembly process involves only moving the pieces around and rotating them without changing their shape. This is otherwise known as the Banach–Tarski paradox. Our geometrical and topological intuition fail us at this point, but the mathematics is clear. I don't pretend to understand it.
Djoga'Ro
moonstruck
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I guess that only works as long as you only care for surface area and not volume? Or rather you compare the original and the copies in n-dimansional space, but do the slicing in n+1 dimensions?
Confuzzled
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I'll repeat that I don't pretend to understand it, but the Wikipedia article points out that the sphere is divided up into 'things' where volume is undefined.
This article goes into a little more (handwavy) detail
Banach-Tarski Paradox – Math Fun Facts
math.hmc.edu
And this is for the more mathematically hardcore:
There are also plenty of YouTube explainers - just search for "banach-tarski paradox" in YouTube.
Well, they existed at one time, where the trait of the horn was selected for, and thus, fetal unicorns started to grow the horn bigger and bigger. At one point, the mothers all got scraped and pierced from the insides when the fetus rotates, and so, they went extinct. - Armchair evolutionist. The horn is soft tissue, so the fossil record can not distinguish them from proto-horses (equus). (insert "prove me wrong" meme here)
Well, only if you don't care about truth. You see, the unicorn started as a biblical mis-representation.
Unicorns in the Bible
Where are unicorns mentioned in the Bible? What part do they play in God's judgment of the world?
www.biblestudy.org
this time. I'm sure they will try again before summer holidays because it needs to be mandatory for august.
Nice and all, but the story is not fact-checked and did they do a peer reviewed study of the species?
Djoga'Ro
moonstruck
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@Confuzzled Hm-kay, not what I assumed it would be. Rather a higher degree of brain fuckery - at least measured by my humble standards.
Nah, they were about to start it when Hume's ghost talked them out of it and the four of them ended up in a pub.Nice and all, but the story is not fact-checked and did they do a peer reviewed study of the species?
JDTAY
Half Pepperoni, All Cheese
The CDC says the 7-day average of COVID-19 cases just hit 28,000, a level not seen since March 16th. It’s coming back, y’all.
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