COVID-19 / Coronavirus Pandemic

[HelenF]

She doesn't begin to if she's trying to invalidate a comparison of rate of sickness between a jabbed and an unjabbed group, by claiming "100% jabbed means 0% unjabbed and therefore no comparison is possible with 63% jabbed, because 100% jabbed makes comparison impossible."

I'm saying that you're not actually comparing the rate of sickness between the jabbed and the unjabbed group.

 

[cjam]

It's not that hard, people. Let's simplify.

• I've got two big boxes contaiining 100 frogs each.
• @FBnil says 'I've got a chlorine spray that will make them healthier!"
• So we treat one box of frogs with spray, and leave the other one alone.
• We wait a few days and see how many frogs die in each box.
• @HelenF comes along and says "the comparison's invalid, because if you spray all the frogs, you won't know if the spray helped!"

 

[cjam]

I'm saying that you're not actually comparing the rate of sickness between the jabbed and the unjabbed group.

But you are. You have jabbed, and unjabbed. You know the ratio.

You have a number of people with severe covid sickness in hospital.

You know the ratio of jabbed to unjabbed in that group also.

[hint: if you mark the frogs you sprayed, you can put them in the same box afterwards]
[hint2: the experiment also works if you don't have equal numbers of frogs. you could have 60 in one box, and 40 in the other. Or 63 and 37.]

 

[levi]

That's what a 1 in 2500 infection fatality rate means.

Please stop reiterating this stat, I can't tell from the medarchive site you posted it from whether or not it's been refuted or not yet, but I'd expect so. Put simply, given 154156 people died with a report of covid-19 symptoms on their death certificate in the UK, if that represents a 1 in 2500 figure, it means a total of 385.5 million people were infected or put more simply we've each had a case nearly 6000 times since the disease entered the UK in Jan 2020. And that, I'm afraid is straight up ridicilous. Using real up to date figured, in the UK the current fatality rate is currently 2.88% in other words about 1 in 35 die after catching the disease, although the median age of death is 83 means a hell of a lot of old folk have died from this, and you don't have to go far to find reports of people in their 30s dying from it.

 

[HelenF]

My first point was, as "% of population vaccinated" goes up, "% of severe cases vaccinated" also goes up, regardless of the effectiveness of the vaccine or how they decide who gets it.

My second point acknowleged that if they decide who gets the vaccine at random, 63% of population vaccinated and 64% of severe cases vaccinated would suggest it wasn't working. But since it's actually given out in order of who is most likely to get severely ill from covid, this doesn't apply.

To get a real comparison, you need to split the population by vaccinated/unvaccinated and by risk group, then for each risk group, compare "% of severe cases in risk group X vaccinated" with "% of severe cases in risk group X unvaccinated". The studies which did that found that 2 doses of vaccine is pretty good at preventing severe cases.

 

[ible]

the denominator is important

 

[FBnil]

[EDIT2] Maybe we should just link the video, and see who can tell us how the deception in the video was carried-out?

Yes, option 2 is very interesting

But you are. You have jabbed, and unjabbed. You know the ratio.

unjabbed, jabbed (double-blind plascebo), jabbed (vaccine 1), jabbed (vaccine 2), jabbed (having had it), jabbed (not had it), jabbed once, jabbed twice, jabbed thrice (either by "boostershot" or by misstake).
The variables are a bit more complex.

 

[HelenF]

If you have just recovered from covid it doens't seem like you can get it again immediately. This constitutes immunity. But if you are vaccinated, you still can get covid, it's just that your symptoms are attenuated. That would imply that vaccinations to do not contribute to herd immunity.

That was the general understanding of what immunity meant, but it seems to be different with covid-19. You can be vaccinated and still catch the disease and still pass it on to others but you're unlikely to be ill enough to go to hospital and die there. Does that mean the vaccine doesn't cause immunity, or do we need a more nuanced understanding of what immunity means. I'm not sure yet to be honest. But it's why I still wear a face mask when out and about.

It seems the vaccines cause partial immunity, and somewhat reduce the chance of catching the disease and passing it on, thus contributing to some extent to reducing levels in the population. But this is really hard to measure. I have doubts about whether the effect is going to be enough, with the restrictions being lifted.

 

[cjam]

Please stop reiterating this stat, I can't tell from the medarchive site you posted it from whether or not it's been refuted or not yet, but I'd expect so. Put simply, given 154156 people died with a report of covid-19 symptoms on their death certificate in the UK, if that represents a 1 in 2500 figure, it means a total of 385.5 million people were infected or put more simply we've each had a case nearly 6000 times since the disease entered the UK in Jan 2020. ...

There's an interesting and important explanation for the discrepancy @levi.

There is a difference between 'dying with' and 'dying from'.

---

A lot of people die with acne. But we never had a public policy of listing them as 'acne deaths'. We do this, bizarrely and for the first time ever, with 'Covid-19'.

---

"Official" deaths in my country are the 'dead with' and not 'dead from' sars-cov2. Last report I recall indicated 'dead from' was around 4% of 'dead with'.

With this as a rough estimate gives 154156 * 0.04, or 6166 UK deaths from Covid. Now the 1 in 2500 is just for the under-70 group, which excludes the majority of deaths from covid. I don't have the numbers at hand but if we stipulate over-70s account for half the deaths-from, and these have roughly a 10x higher rate (1:250) of infection-fatalities, we work back to 3083*250+3083*2500 = 8.5 million covid infections.

Does that work-out, roughly?

 

[levi]

Now the 1 in 2500 is just for the under-70 group, which excludes the majority of deaths from covid. I don't have the numbers at hand but if we stipulate over-70s account for half the deaths-from, and these have roughly a 10x higher rate (1:250) of infection-fatalities, we work back to 3083*250+3083*2500 = 8.5 million covid infections.

Does that work-out, roughly?

That's possible. I'll admit, I skimmed cjam's post where he linked it and the that the figures only apply to those under 70 (or <70 years old from the report) is only mentioned in the second paragraph of the abstract. But I still wouldn't trust completely information gathered in mid 2020, which is over a year ago now.

Still it's not just about death rates, there's also long covid to be considered. Recently on the news they showed a child who I'd estimate to be about 9 year old with long covid. Now that's circumstantial evidence, and no numbers were given, but I understand there to be hundreds in long covid groups on facebook (which is a stat I can't personally check for obvious reasons). From all of the people I've heard on the TV and radio, long covid is effectively a rather harsh form of ME/CFS, and limits your ability to work. I'll be doing all I can to avoid getting that.

 

[cjam]

That's possible. I'll admit, I skimmed cjam's post where he linked it and the that the figures only apply to those under 70 (or <70 years old from the report) is only mentioned in the second paragraph of the abstract. But I still wouldn't trust completely information gathered in mid 2020, which is over a year ago now.

Still it's not just about death rates, there's also long covid to be considered. Recently on the news they showed a child who I'd estimate to be about 9 year old with long covid. Now that's circumstantial evidence, and no numbers were given, but I understand there to be hundreds in long covid groups on facebook (which is a stat I can't personally check for obvious reasons). From all of the people I've heard on the TV and radio, long covid is effectively a rather harsh form of ME/CFS, and limits your ability to work. I'll be doing all I can to avoid getting that.

Though I cannot reccommend anyone listen to TV and Radio for even one minute, you appear to be an intelligent, rational adult capable of selecting sources from which to inform yourself, for your own health decisions.

My reading of the available information, and my experiences with friends and family clearly indicate the gene-jabs are an order of magnitude more dangerous to me than any known sars-cov2 variant. Which is, let's emphasize, again from all available data - miniscule, if you take the proper care to filter out the fake 'cases' and fake deaths.

Now that we have a miles-long record of malfeasance and finally some lawsuits underway, the media mob and government goons are beating the drums for mandatory injections, and this is a blatant violation of the Nuremberg code. This is not acceptable

There are many scientists and doctors speaking out, but these must be shared - samizdat - style, since they are systematically being prevented from penetrating the media-bubble formed around the minds of TV-watchers and Facebook chatters.

Doing my duty in this regard, I attach 9 minutes of Dr. Sam White speaking of his experiences in UK (1.5MB opus audio).

[EDIT}

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And before rushing off to your mainstream media source to implant their pre-formed verdict on Dr. White into your brain, listen please, first, to what he has to say.

 

[levi]

He makes some good points and a lot of the way we've tackled this needs to be looked at again in the cold light of day. But his misrepresentation of the hell that the hospitals have gone through is reprehensible and makes me not trust much else of what he has to say, I'm afraid.

 

[Linux-SWAT]

France's biggest firemen union goes on unlimited strike against the pass:

Pass sanitaire : le syndicat majoritaire des pompiers dépose un préavis de grève illimitée

Pass sanitaire : le syndicat majoritaire des pompiers dépose un préavis de grève illimitée

www.laprovence.com

 

[cjam]

@levi sorry, that was my mistake. In condensing a 2 hour interview I made the mistake of cutting out the part when he describes the timeframe of his empty hospitals observation, which was early-lockdown phase, around march 2020. The tiktok videos of hospital staff arranging dances because they had no patients was a result of...

the lockdown and panic mongering keeping people away from seeking medical treatment. This is documented. The NYT ran an article estimating around 50,000 cancer deaths would be caused by people being kept from early screening and also treatment.

Being a non TV-watcher, I followed different streams of information than most of my good fellows.
(Attached, mortality post-jab campaign, Brazil. All just a 'mistake'??)

 

[λ the β-Redex Reducer]

The point I was trying to make is that if you're young and healthy, you don't vaccinate yourself to protect yourself from the virus (since you probably don't need the vaccine for this) but to limit the overall spread of the virus.

So endanger people who are young and healthy to maybe get a little bit of extra protection for the people who are very old or very sick. Never mind the fact that the injections are not fully tested and that long-term side-effects are unknown and short-term risks seem to be pretty high. Good luck selling that to parents without lies or strong coercion.

How much of the population will need to be injected for there to be herd immunity? Seems like it would need to be a pretty large amount, considering the fact that The Virus is generally safe for it's host (meaning that the injected survive and can spread it) and the injections against it hardly work (meaning that people injected against The Virus can still get and spread it). In fact, going by the data it seems that even injecting the entire population would not provide herd immunity because the injections are not effective enough.

 

[HelenF]

The people in charge seem to think that if they vaccinate everyone, using coercive means if necessary, then we can all go back to life as normal. But this might not work. Not least, a new variant could appear any time which makes a lot of people seriously ill despite the vaccine, and having more cases means a higher chance of new variants.

 

[levi]

So endanger people who are young and healthy to maybe get a little bit of extra protection for the people who are very old or very sick. Never mind the fact that the injections are not fully tested and that long-term side-effects are unknown and short-term risks seem to be pretty high. Good luck selling that to parents without lies or strong coercion.

Has it not been tested yet? From just this thread at least JDTAY, Matzezu and I have had our vaccines and we're still here. And it seems my one day off colour bout afterwards was the worst of it. I don't trust Dr White's assertion that a man in his 50's died from taking the vaccine by the way.

How much of the population will need to be injected for there to be herd immunity? Seems like it would need to be a pretty large amount, considering the fact that The Virus is generally safe for it's host (meaning that the injected survive and can spread it) and the injections against it hardly work (meaning that people injected against The Virus can still get and spread it). In fact, going by the data it seems that even injecting the entire population would not provide herd immunity because the injections are not effective enough.

I'm not holding my breath for anything like herd immunity any more. If us vaccinated folk can still catch a mild version of it and spread it, it'll continue to circulate, as you say. Perhaps that's the cost of covid-19 though, and we just have to live with it.

 

[netcat]

So my daughter tested positive. She's in Korea with my wife with her grandparents, one of whom is at risk. I told them not to go. Was i wrong for not stamping down my foot? I suggested just waiting a bit, have a real holiday everyone can enjoy instead of this shit. And quarantining is so much more harmful to kids... so boring. No exercise possible - kids go nuts. My wife can work - yay! My daughters just on her ipad. She's 9. Fucking selfish grandparents for getting them to travel at the earliest possible date. My parents encourage us to play it safe, wait it out. It's just so sad because my daughter is mini-me (levelled up - of course), and we're both isolating, could have been together. FFS.

 

[netcat]

So endanger people who are young and healthy to maybe get a little bit of extra protection for the people who are very old or very sick. Never mind the fact that the injections are not fully tested and that long-term side-effects are unknown and short-term risks seem to be pretty high. Good luck selling that to parents without lies or strong coercion.

How much of the population will need to be injected for there to be herd immunity? Seems like it would need to be a pretty large amount, considering the fact that The Virus is generally safe for it's host (meaning that the injected survive and can spread it) and the injections against it hardly work (meaning that people injected against The Virus can still get and spread it). In fact, going by the data it seems that even injecting the entire population would not provide herd immunity because the injections are not effective enough.

17 year olds on the BBC exuberant that they can now get jabs. Wait. Kids very rarely fall ill. What the fuck. Complete indoctrination.

So:

I am double vaccinated.

I got quite ill.

I transmitted covid.

All bets off.

We are entering the Pandemonium.

 

[λ the β-Redex Reducer]

So my daughter tested positive. She's in Korea with my wife with her grandparents, one of whom is at risk. I told them not to go. Was i wrong for not stamping down my foot? I suggested just waiting a bit, have a real holiday everyone can enjoy instead of this shit. And quarantining is so much more harmful to kids... so boring. No exercise possible - kids go nuts. My wife can work - yay! My daughters just on her ipad. She's 9. Fucking selfish grandparents for getting them to travel at the earliest possible date. My parents encourage us to play it safe, wait it out. It's just so sad because my daughter is mini-me (levelled up - of course), and we're both isolating, could have been together. FFS.

I have grandparents that could die any day now and I never stopped visiting them for CoViD-19. And when their imminent death —which is inevitable regardless of CoViD-19— comes I will be happy to not have left them alone for their last few years of life. I stop visiting them only when I am noticeably sick.

Has it not been tested yet? From just this thread at least JDTAY, Matzezu and I have had our vaccines and we're still here.

You do not know the long-term effects, the effects that the next injections will have on you, nor whether the injections really work. Also, all of you also survived the horrible CoViD-19 which is so deadly that it made people in Wuhan fall down dead on the streets.