COVID-19 / Coronavirus Pandemic

[Phlyra]

i have thought this for a long time

Does “long time” = since 2010?

 

[cjam]

For those still wondering about the danger sars-cov2 really presents:

Here is a metastudy of 23 studies of covid infection fatality rate.

According to this study, under-70 covid infected have a fatality rate of..

one in 2500​

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.13.20101253v2

Still think a new experimental genetic therapy is indicated, against that risk?

 

[ElPoco]

• It's not a genetic therapy.
• It's no more experimental than most vaccines that were rolled out in the past to fight big epidemics. The covid vaccines were actually more tested than those.
• The point of vaccination is not to protect the vaccinated person but to protect the whole population via herd immunity.
• If your population is 100% vaccinated, 100% of the hospitalisation will be vaccinated people. If you have a town of 1000 people with 1 unvaccinated and you've got 4 deaths, including the non-vaccinated, you'll have three times as many death in the vaccinated people than in the unvaccinated population, but this proves absolutely nothing.
• Vaccination doesn't create variants. Viruses mutate all the time, the more contaminated people you have and the higher their viral load, the more variants you are likely to get.

 

[matzesu]

Im in contact whit lots of peaple in my Job in the Beeceeper Supply Shop, therefore it was my decicion to let me vaccinate,
i dont go to any event, no cinema, no partys, nothing as its not my world, i live in a household whit 2 over 60 year old peaple, some of our customers arend also that young anymore..
Whe went to Frence every yeahr for Fir Honey , expect this year because it was reportet there isnt enough honey on the firs and whit Corona and so one whe decide to leave the Bees at home..

Even when i need a 3th Shot, next year shouldnt be a big issue to go to french ...

Im still alive and i got the first shot ^^

 

[cjam]

"It doesn't prevent you from getting infected. It provides herd immunity"

[Smiling and backing away slowly.]
Yes, you are right. It all makes sense now.

 

[ElPoco]

That's not what I wrote. You can't even prevent yourself from distorting something that's written two posts above... Says a lot about everything you post here.

 

[netcat]

As usual I'm not confident in my understanding, and everything is so subject to change overnight. But since there is a slight chance that I have covid and my susceptible in-laws are at risk, I am more curious.

I am avoiding scientific mumbo jumbo because it's constantly being revised. I try to pay attention to the basic things that seem true. Trying to be empirical. Correct me if i'm wrong:

Immunity means you cannot get - and therefor not transmit - a disease. This does not include eg having the virus on your hand and wiping it on someone, the same way an inanimate object can in theory transmit a disease.

If you have just recovered from covid it doens't seem like you can get it again immediately. This constitutes immunity. But if you are vaccinated, you still can get covid, it's just that your symptoms are attenuated. That would imply that vaccinations to do not contribute to herd immunity.

So I don't understand this statement:

• The point of vaccination is not to protect the vaccinated person but to protect the whole population via herd immunity.

....

Oh fuck - just got the text. I have covid.

 

[cjam]

Would you have known you did without the test?

Funny in israel also, the percentage in hospital with covid who got the jab tracks the percentage in general population who got the jabs - no reduction!

Now Pfizer claimed, I think, 90% efficacy? If, as reported, 63% of the population was "vaccinated", then that efficacy over baseline immunity would mean we should expect 10% of that set to be susceptible, or 6.3% of the total population. If they have the same risk profile as the unjabbed (100%-63%=37%), you'd expect 6.3/(37+6.3) or 14.5% of hospitalizations to have been jabbed.

But it's 64% in hospital, with severe covid, who got the jab. That is exactly what you'd get with a placebo. If you gave sugar tabs to 63% of the population, you'd also see ~63% of the severe hospitalizations had taken sugar tabs.

 

[Phlyra]

As usual I'm not confident in my understanding, and everything is so subject to change overnight. But since there is a slight chance that I have covid and my susceptible in-laws are at risk, I am more curious.

I am avoiding scientific mumbo jumbo because it's constantly being revised. I try to pay attention to the basic things that seem true. Trying to be empirical. Correct me if i'm wrong:

Immunity means you cannot get - and therefor not transmit - a disease. This does not include eg having the virus on your hand and wiping it on someone, the same way an inanimate object can in theory transmit a disease.

If you have just recovered from covid it doens't seem like you can get it again immediately. This constitutes immunity. But if you are vaccinated, you still can get covid, it's just that your symptoms are attenuated. That would imply that vaccinations to do not contribute to herd immunity.

So I don't understand this statement:


....

Oh fuck - just got the text. I have covid.

I hope you only get mild symptoms and recover quickly! Can anyone get in shopping for you?

 

[JDTAY]

Get well soon, @netcat

North Carolina is going to update their County Alert System map today or tomorrow. There was only one red county out of one hundred on the last map, released two weeks ago, using data from July 4th through 17th. I wouldn't be surprised if there are fifty red counties on the latest one, which will use data from July 18th to 31st.

 

[ElPoco]

@netcat : From what I understand, the vaccines don't provide full immunity (especially against the delta variant) but they still limit the risk of getting COVID and limit the viral load you have if you get it, making you less likely to pass it on. This might or might not be enough (there's not enough available data for now) to stop the epidemic, but in any case it's still an improvement over no vaccine at all.

The point I was trying to make is that if you're young and healthy, you don't vaccinate yourself to protect yourself from the virus (since you probably don't need the vaccine for this) but to limit the overall spread of the virus.

 

[HelenF]

(Image says in Israel 64% of severe hospitalized covid patients are vaccinated, compared to 63% of the population being vaccinated.)

It doesn't make sense to compare those two numbers. If 100% of the population was vaccinated, 100% of severe hospitalized covid patients would also be vaccinated.

 

[HelenF]

... At 0% population vaccinated, 0% of severe cases are vaccinated. And you could argue that if it's working, the values in between shouldn't be linear; but since the vaccines are being given out in order of who is most likely to get severely ill from covid, there's no reason why it shouldn't be.

Edit: Apparently 2 doses is much more effective than 1 at preventing hospitalisation from the Delta variant, so it should be the 2-dose numbers we're looking at. But "% of severe cases vaccinated" still isn't a particularly useful number.

 

[netcat]

Would you have known you did without the test?

I thought I didn't have it! I was just trying be like Spike Lee, and Do The Right Thing.

I hope you only get mild symptoms and recover quickly! Can anyone get in shopping for you?

So my family are in Korea. I'll have a neighbor get my alcohol

Get well soon, @netcat

Thanks JDTAY. I feel better already. Btw - it's not that bad. Nothing to be eg paranoid about

limit the viral load you have if you get it, making you less likely to pass it on

This is one thing that makes sense.

...

I am fully vaxed and got symptoms comparable to a bad cold. I wasn't particularly protected. I'm thinking about how this will affect my mother, and her willingness to relax her - largely self-imposed - precautions. Sux.

 

[levi]

Immunity means you cannot get - and therefor not transmit - a disease. This does not include eg having the virus on your hand and wiping it on someone, the same way an inanimate object can in theory transmit a disease.

If you have just recovered from covid it doens't seem like you can get it again immediately. This constitutes immunity. But if you are vaccinated, you still can get covid, it's just that your symptoms are attenuated. That would imply that vaccinations to do not contribute to herd immunity.

That was the general understanding of what immunity meant, but it seems to be different with covid-19. You can be vaccinated and still catch the disease and still pass it on to others but you're unlikely to be ill enough to go to hospital and die there. Does that mean the vaccine doesn't cause immunity, or do we need a more nuanced understanding of what immunity means. I'm not sure yet to be honest. But it's why I still wear a face mask when out and about.

There's reports of plenty of people having caught the disease twice, but I'm not sure what the minimum time span between infections has been. I'm not sure if they've caught a different variant the second time or what.

 

[cjam]

I'm still hopeful that some forum readers will understand the significance of the data I present.

Post automatically merged: Aug 5, 2021

but you're unlikely to be ill enough to go to hospital and die there.

You always were even without an experimental gene-jab...

That's what a 1 in 2500 infection fatality rate means.

What the data flooding in from countries around the world are showing, is that the efficacy claims of the big pharma were wrong, misleading, and by some accounts, fraudulent.

 

[FBnil]

I wonder if those days are about to return.

Yes, yes of course they will.

got a weak positive. a bit disappointed as i plan to got to korea this month.

Sorry to hear you need to jump over so many hurdles. Here in Amsterdam we have local testing facilities, three big ones near Schiphol Airport and a few private ones that cost 125 euro (the price of a rPI4), but there's no waiting queues (because they are expensive). And now you know why I do not have an rPI4.

Oh great another link from a right-wing "media" site with questionable reporting, opaque ownership and probably no actual journalist on the payroll.

Because the main stream media only covers one-sided pink-colored news. Of course, they always did, but now it's blatant.

Is it worse than original Delta?

I think the new variant is harder, better, faster, stronger.

now calls for its recall from the market and says that it should have been pulled from the market in February of 2021.

No! You know how many millions they are making? Don't take that away from them. 'cause you don't know, what it means to them.

Im still alive and i got the first shot ^^

Like Han Solo!

But if you are vaccinated, you still can get covid, it's just that your symptoms are attenuated. That would imply that vaccinations to do not contribute to herd immunity.

This was replied to by @ElPoco with a good explanation. But what if the white bloodcells go: meh, I know those spikes, they're friendly/tolerated, and actually lower your resistance to them, making you a welcome host...

Funny in israel also, the percentage in hospital with covid who got the jab tracks the percentage in general population who got the jabs - no reduction!

It doesn't make sense to compare those two numbers. If 100% of the population was vaccinated, 100% of severe hospitalized covid patients would also be vaccinated.

Well, if you make a well crafted query you can find a moment in time where Vaccinated v/s Unvaccinated ratio is such (a statistical fluke), that it looks like vaccinated are worse off across all age groups:

 

[cjam]

@HelenF, stipulating 100% jabbed means you don't have a control group of "unvaccinated", so you have nothing to compare to. So no comparison is possible. It's about the comparison.

To have a comparison you need both test subjects AND a control group.

Stop and pause. Ok. Now read slowly. Stipulating that there is no control group, indeed means that you have no comparison. But that doesn't invalidate the validity of a comparison when you do have a control group.

Please try to understand this. Thanks.

 

[FBnil]

Please try to understand this. Thanks.

She does. Maybe the words didn't come out right. From all people on the Forum, I trust her the most when it comes to medical stuff.

 

[cjam]

She doesn't begin to if she's trying to invalidate a comparison of rate of sickness between a jabbed and an unjabbed group, by claiming "100% jabbed means 0% unjabbed and therefore no comparison is possible with 63% jabbed, because 100% jabbed makes comparison impossible."

It's nonsense on stilts.

Perhaps we should review the Karen Kingston video you sent me now?
[EDIT] Or will you explain to the board yourself why your belief in graphene in the jabs was an error? That would be a valuable thing if you did.
[EDIT2] Maybe we should just link the video, and see who can tell us how the deception in the video was carried-out?