Community Paradigm Shift

[Sphinxter]

If you want to create a cross-platform gaming website, by all means do it. Several devs seem to be on board with the idea, so run with it. Maybe you'll turn some heads in the PC indie gaming community.

If you do go ahead with the project though, I would suggest you do it with a little more professionalism than you've shown here. Ranating and raving at anybody who doesn't agree that your idea is the greatest thing since sliced bread is not going to win you many converts. All it really does is make you sound like an angry child.

No? he was just starting to win me over. Well except I was thinking why not the iphone or openmoko instead of the pc, I mean if I got to do another port it's a homogeneous hardware platform, your program has the machine to itself like the gp2x and it's a great big audience who seem pre-conditioned to accept the pay for play model and likely in the desired demographic.

 

[Yrx]

*snip*

As I mentioned before, I doubt anyone is going to spend $330 for just a few homebrew games that they couldn't have otherwise...

I don't think porting applications to PC would help or hurt Pandora. It would just be nice to have. Not quite a paradigm shift, though.


That's wonderful, now make a comment that is actually relevant to my post.

I did. You said that less Pandora exclusives would be less incentive to buy a Pandora. But I doubt any exclusivity is going to make a bit of difference. For every app on Pandora, there will be an alternative to the PC. And no app is going to be incredible enough to justify the huge price tag if it wasn't already mostly justified in the buyer's eyes.

Also, someone seems cranky tonight.

 

[A_SN]

Well except I was thinking why not the iphone or openmoko instead of the pc.

Oh you know I was mainly talking about the PC because it was the easiest and most obvious and also largest potential audience, but yeah, it should also be about any platform you want.

I guess the file submission system could be re-hauled, over-hauled, whatever, so that you can indicate by a sort of tag which platforms are concerned, and so that it could be used on the main page to only display the new releases relevant to the platforms of interest to the reader. Like boxes to tick on and off.

 

[Alex.]

But Adolf, there already are communities and portals centered around specific platforms. There is nothing to prevent developers from releasing builds for whatever systems they are interested in. There is no reason to dissolve this community's individuality (read: catering to a couple of niche, open handhelds) just for the sake of having everything in one place, especially since most people are only interested in one or two platforms to begin with.

 

[A_SN]

But Adolf, there already are communities and portals centered around specific platforms. There is nothing to prevent developers from releasing builds for whatever systems they are interested in. There is no reason to dissolve this community's individuality (read: catering to a couple of niche, open handhelds) just for the sake of having everything in one place, especially since most people are only interested in one or two platforms to begin with.

Ha, good point. So maybe the suggestion in my very last comment wasn't a good one. But there's no real desktop PC community right? So I think we should definitely open up to that, without of course losing our focus on the 3 machines we're supposed to focus on. That doesn't involve merging with anything, only opening ourselves up by encouraging PC builds and PC users to try them. How about that?

 

[aatu]

Ok, maybe I'm missing something:
You don't care whether it helps Pandora or not... So why then? ......

Damnit, why don't you just read my posts? Like I said many times before sure we .....

On the contrary, I think that if the ones NOT interested in ....

Pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft. Right. Best piece of FUD of the day. You're obviously not a homebrew dev. We ALL have PC builds of ......

True, I'm not a dev. I have no idea how hard everything is to them. But from your first post I got the feeling that porting to PC would take some extra work. But ok, if that part is relatively easy (I believe if you say so), then what's the problem? If everybody already have the PC builds available (and are willing to port), what is there to encourage? And why haven't they done it before?

Wouldn't all this have been solved by basically setting up a central repository? Somewhere visible most preferably? But from your reply I got the feeling that's not what you're after... But if everybody released their PC ports simultaneously with Pandora releases, wouldn't you still need some kind of central archive anyway? It wouldn't change anything in that sense.

And if the main point wasn't the PC ports, then what are you exactly after? And maybe everybody else understands what you're trying to say, but I don't. Do you just want to extend homebrew community or maybe something else?

Oh, this came to my mind: wouldn't it help if the devs distributed their Pandora-PC-ports on some website that specializes in homebrews? You could even request your own section, if there are enough releases... Because ”outside-people” are more likely to stumble upon your creations in those sites than here. That would attract much more audience...

 

[Dimacus]

True, I'm not a dev. I have no idea how hard everything is to them. But from your first post I got the feeling that porting to PC would take some extra work. But ok, if that part is relatively easy (I believe if you say so), then what's the problem? If everybody already have the PC builds available (and are willing to port), what is there to encourage? And why haven't they done it before?

I think you are answering yourself here;
Most do not publish the PC build since there is no real place nor community specific for desktop homebrew.
Of course, developers could release a PC build with there releases here, but this community is very directed towards GamePark *'s consoles and the upcoming Pandora, so there would not be any real interest from this community to see the PC builds.
I think that this is what A_SN wants to change, to open up this community to more general homebrew scene.
(but i might have misunderstood this completly.)

While I admit that I would be please to see shiny, sparkling and good looking Pandora-only releases, for the sake of showing of to my friends, I also think that a larger homebrew community would benefit both this community as it stands now, and the homebrew community at large.

Partly since there would be a higher chance of non-Pandora/2x developers to port there applications to the 2x and the Pandora.
Plus, a larger userbase increase the chances of feedback, which, at least to me is one of the driving forces to develop.

 

[hrsimoes]

Once the Pandora is out, how far will the possibility of having an emulator for it on the PC be?
Years? Or could it be done for the current PCs?

Could it be an alternative to porting individual Pandora apps to PCs?

 

[JakeK]

*snip*

Fucking right. Cause if you're this tight on your money then you're totally gonna buy this expensive console so you can play games you never played before. That logic doesn't work. However my logic works for people who aren't too tight on their money, which is pretty much everyone who's gonna buy a Pandora.

Besides, you know there's going to be Quake III on it, you know that? Exciting, isn't it? But you wouldn't find it quite as exciting if you had never played it, despite the fact that it's unequivocally an awesome game? Same logic for anything else. You don't give a crap unless you either have played the games before, or that there's lots of coverage and hype in the press about the games in question, which is impossible to a certain extent regarding homebrew games.

EDIT : You guys who are against this idea focus a lot on the claim that this will be good for Pandora sales. I'd just like to recall that this is not at all the point of this suggestion which is to open up this community and enlarge it by making abstraction on hardware and focus more on our beloved homebrew games. Increased publicity is just a virtuous side effect that's not that important.

Oh and Jakek, if you "support good grammar", that's "Don't", not "Dont".


Buying a Pandora does not make a person easy going on the money side of things. $400 may not be a big sum for you to fork out but that doesn't mean you need to be ignorant to the others that have to save up for it or wait a while. Having exclusive homebrew adds to the package that is the Pandora. You said it before, you compile on a PC so what is stopping you from releasing it on PC? Absolutely nothing. Do that then port it to the Pandora. These forums are dedicated to the GP32/GP2X etc etc, why would you expect it to be the centre of what would be one of the largest communities on the internet? The Pandora would just get lost in the whole PC homebrew scene.

I agree with Chip, if you like then do it but do it somewhere else

It says good grammar, not perfect grammar. "Screw you. lol lol lol."

Homebrew games effect sales. If you have a Pandora with some really nice homebrew games (like the ones made by ruckage) that are developed on for the Pandora the person will have to think "Well if I really want to play these great games I'll need to by the Pandora, plus it also has x y z feature." However if you have a Pandora where the games are readily available on PC instead they think "Well these games are on PC, so I can play them on my PC if I want without having to buy the Pandora; although I would be able to use xyz feature." The Pandora now has one less selling point.

I focus on sales because ultimately sales is what determines the future of the Pandora; how popular it becomes, the amount of software developed for it and there being another Pandora.

*snip*

Certainly they might. At least people who do have money might. Just because someone has money doesn't mean they will buy things without second thought.

If someone is interested in the Pandora for its games then having the ability to play the games before buying could persuade them to buy it, especially if they're on the fence about it.

This isn't a PSP/DS, the audience will be much closer to GP2X. And no one buys a GP2X so they can play things they've never played before on it. If exclusive content was that mandatory NO ONE would own a GP2X.


The experience between playing the whole game on PC then on Pandora doesn't change much. People don't play a game that was on a console on a PC then decide it would be even better on the console and therefore they must buy the console. Consoles use exclusive games very well, Halo would have increased the Xbox's sales by a large amount and same with GTA on the PS2; it is all about drawing a person to one console. Homebrew Pandora games on PC won't have the same affect as they would just being Pandora homebrew games only.

I have played many old games that my brother bought (he is four years older than me) when I was searching around for stuff to put on my F200. People buy things based on what they see or hear about it, that is the way it is. I wouldn't say the audience would be much closer to the GP2X. If the Pandora gained enough publicity it could easily achieve drawing in a different audience. I for one wasn't even aware of the GP32 or GP2X F100 when I bought the F200 (assumed there were previous versions since it was an F200) and went ahead and did some research.

 

[A_SN]

I think you are answering yourself here;
Most do not publish the PC build since there is no real place nor community specific for desktop homebrew.
Of course, developers could release a PC build with there releases here, but this community is very directed towards GamePark *'s consoles and the upcoming Pandora, so there would not be any real interest from this community to see the PC builds.
I think that this is what A_SN wants to change, to open up this community to more general homebrew scene.
(but i might have misunderstood this completly.)

You perfectly understood my point, and it is so what I would have liked to reply that I won't reply to aatu's comment.

Homebrew games effect sales. If you have a Pandora with some really nice homebrew games (like the ones made by ruckage) that are developed on for the Pandora the person will have to think "Well if I really want to play these great games I'll need to by the Pandora, plus it also has x y z feature." However if you have a Pandora where the games are readily available on PC instead they think "Well these games are on PC, so I can play them on my PC if I want without having to buy the Pandora; although I would be able to use xyz feature." The Pandora now has one less selling point.

You can repeat the same disproven points over and over again it won't make them any true. Besides, you're not a dev, so obviously you don't really actually care about what we want, which is to reach out to more people. Nobody's gonna make a multiplayer game (over the Internet) original homebrew game if it's gonna be just for the few Pandora owners who can connect to wifi and play it. Now if you can easily reach out to PC people it's gonna make multiplayer game creation more interesting. A lot more. But you don't care about that. I don't know what are your true reasons for wanting to keep the whole thing closed, probably having games no other kid can play. Well fuck you, I want every kid to get a chance to play my games.

Your Halo and GTA comparison doesn't work at all. First off, as I said before, you only buy a game you have never played before if the media coverage/hype makes you want to, which doesn't apply to homebrew games. And then, people buy consoles to play new games. People are going to buy Pandoras to play SNES, N64, PS1 games and do desktopy stuff like web surfing, VoIP, chat, watching videos and so on.. Original homebrew games play a little part there.

 

[Chip]

Not like he's pitching this to a company board. Who needs professionalism on a forum? c_c

Any community that wants to be taken seriously needs some level of professionalism on their forum.

The whole point of this thread is to expand this community, to attract more software developers, and to promote homebrew gaming. So you reach out to people, you ask them to come see how much fun it is in our community, and they come here to find rants like this. How many people are going to read this kind of nonsense and say "Yes! This is exactly the sort of online community I've been looking for!" Probably not many, and we certainly don't want the ones that would.

I know this is "just" a forum, but it's also the primary repository for Pandora info. Anybody who is interested in the platform is going to end up here. How many new members have signed up in the last four months? How many more are just lurking? If you want these people to stay then you should, at the very least, display a little civility. If people want to be cursed at by angry teenagers for no particular reason, they might as well join a PSP or DS forum.

 

[A_SN]

snip
lol. Thanks a lot for the ridiculous trolling. That's really answering the real questions like how are we going to make this shift happen, or what precise changes we need and how, etc.. No, forget about the real questions, let's just kiss each other on the buns, that surely is what's gonna make people want to buy a Pandora.

By the way, "professionalism" is when it's your job. You might be looking for another word, like "serious".

 

[Yrx]

snip
lol. Thanks a lot for the ridiculous trolling. That's really answering the real questions like how are we going to make this shift happen, or what precise changes we need and how, etc.. No, forget about the real questions, let's just kiss each other on the buns, that surely is what's gonna make people want to buy a Pandora.

By the way, "professionalism" is when it's your job. You might be looking for another word, like "serious".

Uhhhhhh, he wasn't trolling. But you are flamebaiting.

And who said we even want a "shift?" From what it seems to me, most people really don't care either way.

 

[Sphinxter]

snip
lol. Thanks a lot for the ridiculous trolling. That's really answering the real questions like how are we going to make this shift happen, or what precise changes we need and how, etc.. No, forget about the real questions, let's just kiss each other on the buns, that surely is what's gonna make people want to buy a Pandora.

By the way, "professionalism" is when it's your job. You might be looking for another word, like "serious".

Actually I think, "professionalism", is when you do it *like* it's your job irregardless of getting paid.

 

[Svartalf]

Actually I think, "professionalism", is when you do it *like* it's your job irregardless of getting paid.

Nice remark. That's what professionalism means.

Not what clothes you wear.
Not whether you do it for a living or not (though that defines the similar sounding word "Professional"...)

And even Homebrew (I'm not, mind, though I will be doing a bit of it all the same... ) needs a bit of professionalism in it or nobody will take your stuff even remotely serious- or even play it in some cases...

 

[A_SN]

Uhhhhhh, he wasn't trolling. But you are flamebaiting.

And who said we even want a "shift?" From what it seems to me, most people really don't care either way.

He was trolling. Flamebait is like my second middle name. Who wants this shift? You mean besides devs? (well except Alex it seems, well he seems neutral I'm not sure..). The rest of the people shouldn't care because it doesn't affect them. It's really a dev thing.

 

[Chip]

He was trolling.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

QUOTE
An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.


My comment was certainly relevant to the topic of discussion and was worded as civilly as possible. You could have taken my advise or simply ignored me, but instead you continue to derail your own topic with inaccurate insults.

You can continue to make baseless accusations and deride people who disagree with your plan. You can insist that the opinions of those against you do not count because it "doesn't affect them". Nobody can make you be reasonable, but the more you act like a child the less anybody is likely to take you seriously.

 

[A_SN]

snip

Hippopotamus this thread, anyone who had anything interesting to say said it a while ago now. It's time for action, not discussion with non-protagonists.

(05/04/08: Edited for language - Tobriand)

 

[Orkie]

I had a chuckle at the use of 'fuck' all the time.

If people with not much money see the Pandora games on the PC why would they attempt to fork out 400 bucks for something where the software is ported onto PC. They aren't going to say" Shit this an awesome homebrew game, I am gonna hop online buy a $400 handheld so I can play it on the go."

Like I said, more exculsive things to the Pandora the more people it will attract, more reasons to buy the Pandora. Exclusitivity works with everything.

Why do you give a damn about the Pandora having exclusive games? You aren't the one selling it - let Craig worry about that. Nobody here has any obligation to make the Pandora successful (not that A_SN was even talking about that before you can Chip came into this thread and started trashing it).

 

[Chip]

not that A_SN was even talking about that before you can Chip came into this thread and started trashing it.

I've done nothing of the sort. I don't have any problem with A_SN's idea. I even suggested that he go ahead with it. I don't know how much it's going to help, but I don't see how it could hurt anything either.

My only issue is with A_SN's abusive and unreasonable attitude. I merely suggested he be a bit more civil about the discussion and I was attacked for it. That sort of behavior can hurt the community.