[Cancelled] Aluminium cases are NOT being made!


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gunrock

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I agree with pmprog. IDV has tried to do something new and difficult with a new piece of factory equipment. If you see in post #358 he has provided a quite detailed set of reasons why the delays are occurring. He provides more detail in #306, #251 and #240.

Most of us are not from a manufacturing background, I'd wager (I'm not) so have no real idea of the expense and time it takes to get precision professional engineering equipment working. I have worked in printing presses and reprographics environments and have seen how much time it can take for engineers to install and get operational, a factory size piece of equipment.Getting a first piece of output can be fairly quick, but a the foul-ups in a full production run can cost a lot of money and take a long time for the equipment manufacturer's engineers to work out what is wrong and fix it. It's not unknown for equipment to lay idle for weeks whilst parts are ordered or in one case I remember, redesigned(!) as a design flaw was found.

Ask ED for your money back if you don't want to wait, but give the guy a break. He's trying something new with new equipment and some things just aren't in his control.
 

ingoreis

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I say nothing bad about him ,but maybe a Picture/Screenshot of the 3D Modeling or near...

..that would be nice,because we see no work here.

Its not Impossible to post a Picture for him,something that give us little more Hope.

Or News from him what happend or not after the last promising.

I dont worry too much,ED has the Money and its nothing realy Lost. ;)
 

bubblebee

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Abusing people's trusts and hopes
I don't see how he's abused our trust. He took no money up front, he's doing this "pro bono" until it's done, then he'll get paid. So if he cancels the project at any point, the only person who's lost out is IDV.
Regarding hope, there's still hope, if there wasn't, everyone would have cashed their chips in and walked away.

destroying their enthusiasm with undelivered promises.
Guess what!? Shit happens...
And life lesson - there's certainly no problems with being a bit sceptical when it comes to anything - you're more likely to avoid being taken for a ride by more malicious people.


So really, all I see in this is you talking shit about IDV, and IIRC, you're not even invested in this (Not as though any of us really are). Sure he's late, but he's certainly not the first, and he's certainly not going to be the last.
+1
 

bubblebee

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I agree with pmprog. IDV has tried to do something new and difficult with a new piece of factory equipment. If you see in post #358 he has provided a quite detailed set of reasons why the delays are occurring. He provides more detail in #306, #251 and #240.

Most of us are not from a manufacturing background, I'd wager (I'm not) so have no real idea of the expense and time it takes to get precision professional engineering equipment working. I have worked in printing presses and reprographics environments and have seen how much time it can take for engineers to install and get operational, a factory size piece of equipment.Getting a first piece of output can be fairly quick, but a the foul-ups in a full production run can cost a lot of money and take a long time for the equipment manufacturer's engineers to work out what is wrong and fix it. It's not unknown for equipment to lay idle for weeks whilst parts are ordered or in one case I remember, redesigned(!) as a design flaw was found.

Ask ED for your money back if you don't want to wait, but give the guy a break. He's trying something new with new equipment and some things just aren't in his control.
+1
 

Holliefant

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I didn´t order one because I don´t have the money, still I can relate to the people who are a bit disappointed. I really want to see the case myself...

But he is doing that in his free time and should therefore get a bit more respect, even if I also would appreciate a small sing of live from him.

As to ED I would rather believe that the moon has become rectangular, than that he would ever betray someone..
 

ekianjo

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And life lesson - there's certainly no problems with being a bit sceptical when it comes to anything - you're more likely to avoid being taken for a ride by more malicious people.
Then don't give dates when you can't deliver on it for like 10 times in a row. That's what IDV did, and that's really tiring when it happens over and over again.

..that would be nice,because we see no work here.
Exactly my point. ED was the one to give renders, not even IDV. What has IDV actually done ? Whoever knows... we haven't seen anything at all but words, and words are wind.

He's trying something new with new equipment and some things just aren't in his control.
In all honestly he admitted by himself he did not even start working on it in October which was supposed the actual MANUFACTURING date. If that's not a guy loose with timing, I don't know what it is.

And give me a break about "stuff not happening under his control". He's in control of his mouth, as far as I know.
 
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pmprog

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Then don't give dates when you can't deliver on it for like 10 times in a row. That's what IDV did, and that's really tiring when it happens over and over again
I'd agree with you, but he is by far not the only person to have dates slip. Look at software - which is generally only limited by manpower - even big companies miss release dates. Things get harder and slower when you're reliant on a machines, and even just externally controlled/supported/owned stuff.
Hell, I've been playing with a 3D printer at work, I've sketched up a few things, but getting it to print well (or even at all, at the minute) just isn't happening, and I've connected it to three different computers now.

Then you have the "Yeah, urm, I'm going to make some Aluminium cases, don't know how long it'll take, maybe 3 months, maybe 20 years. Who wants one?", what response do you think you'll get from that?

I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice for an update, I'd love one, but you really don't need to keep bleating about it.

If you did plonk down for a preorder, ask ED to cancel it and just casually keep an eye on his shop until it arrives. Then if it doesn't, you've lost nothing.
 

comradekingu

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I know enough to know that the process is a little more involved than just press buttons and smile. Drawings, CNC-machines, planning, sourcing, etc.

From what i can tell this is an undertaking for the not so faint at heart. Im just happy someone went there, and i never imagined getting anywhere close

to a alupanda last year. It would be very extensive to plot down the whole process in writing, and i think for no payment, with the situation described, there

is no reason to doubt that, and the tidbits we have gotten all sound like they should.
 
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MrBazil2k

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@ ekianjo :

Dont waste your time in here ekianjo, some people just want to be fooled by others. I ve noticed that already about 200 posts earlier...
 

elwing

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@ ekianjo :

Dont waste your time in here ekianjo, some people just want to be fooled by others. I ve noticed that already about 200 posts earlier...
It's not about "wanting to be fooled", most people here don't have illusion, but comparing IDV with craig is an unacceptable insult, IDV seems to be failing  just like craig, but the comparison end there, he didn't stole money, not did he try to jump on another project to try to save the affair. at this point he's the only one to lose, insulting him is clearly unjustified and uncalled for!
 

ekianjo

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Then you have the "Yeah, urm, I'm going to make some Aluminium cases, don't know how long it'll take, maybe 3 months, maybe 20 years. Who wants one?", what response do you think you'll get from that?
You know, IDV seems to be a professional working in that field, so one would guess he would have a pretty good idea of the work involved and the difficulties linked to that kind of project in the first place. In other words, it's not like if tomorrow I'd say "I'm going to build a car in 6 months, send me money you guys!" with zero credentials to back my claim - it seemed like he KNEW what he was talking about.

Now, he faced several issues already and he should know better than say "i'll be back in 2 weeks with pictures" because the more he does that, the more his credibility goes down the drain and seeing another excuse coming up next for why he was late again is just becoming comical.

There's something you should ALWAYS do when you are dealing with something complex : assume the worst, give a timeline with plenty of buffer, and hopefully over-deliver. What he did is the exact opposite : he proposed an optimistic timeline, got plenty of issues along the way, and he keeps pushing the delivery date further and further away, making it very unlikely that anyone trusts whatever he says next.

If he had told us in the first place " it will take a year to get your hands on the alu case", what would actually have happened is "way less orders" -> precisely because people would have waited for the Pyra instead. So, giving a false deadline (because we now know he did not even start working on it in October, look at his previous messages) was actually akin to abusing people's trust. People who pre-ordered in this case are actually lucky that ED acts as an intermediate, if not we would have ended into an ICP2-like situation all over again, with no idea when things get done or if the project is actually canned in the end. 

And I'd say the general lax attitude around here (i.e. being "OK / understanding" with this kind of ongoing failure to meet deliverables) is damaging as a whole as well: you set standards for this kind of things to be acceptable. They just should not be, in any situation, in any place, and especially not here where so many members have been burned like that so many times before. Unless you want this to be a community known to give money to unreliable people working on unreliable projects - which is positive for no-one involved in the end. 
 
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pmprog

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There's something you should ALWAYS do when you are dealing with something complex : assume the worst, give a timeline with plenty of buffer, and hopefully over-deliver.
How do you know 3 months didn't already cater for the "usual" list of delays?
If he had told us in the first place " it will take a year to get your hands on the alu case", what would actually have happened is "way less orders" -> precisely because people would have waited for the Pyra instead. So, giving a false deadline (because we now know he did not even start working on it in October, look at his previous messages) was actually akin to abusing people's trust. People who pre-ordered in this case are actually lucky that ED acts as an intermediate, if not we would have ended into an ICP2-like situation all over again, with no idea when things get done or if the project is actually canned in the end.
Agreed, if he had said a year, he probably wouldn't have got as many orders, but he didn't ask for the money upfront, so it's nothing like the ICP2. If very few people had agreed to the case, then he wouldn't have done it and saved himself a lot of hassle.
As for the Pyra issue, maybe, depends how much money people have to spend. I don't plan on getting rid of my Pandora even if I do get a Pyra, so the case will still be handy. In fact, it probably works better for them, because if the Pyra comes first, then they can make the decision to switch. If it was delivered last month, then their money is spent, and they'd have to find more for the Pyra

And I'd say the general lax attitude around here (i.e. being "OK / understanding" with this kind of ongoing failure to meet deliverables) is damaging as a whole as well: you set standards for this kind of things to be acceptable. They just should not be, in any situation, in any place, and especially not here where so many members have been burned like that so many times before. Unless you want this to be a community known to give money to unreliable people working on unreliable projects - which is positive for no-one involved in the end.
With regards to "understanding", sure, why not? I rarely preorder anything, I'd very much wait until there's stock and expect delivery soon after the order, but I appreciate that you can't do that with everything. IDV offered to manufacture aluminium cases off his own back until the point of delivery. So really, I've not (yet) paid him anything for his service, so why should I get upset?Furthermore, my Pandora is a tool, a toy, and a gadget. I am not going to die if the case doesn't arrive in 24 hours. It doesn't rule my life (I have plenty of other things that do that)

Nobody here is being "burned" in the way you suggest. We could all turn round and cancel our orders with ED. What would happen then, would be ED would contact IDV and say "Look, nobody wants the case anymore, give it up".

Perhaps he should have gone Duke Nukem Forever: "It'll be done when it's done"... because that ended well, right?

I, personally, find your attitude towards people - not just IDV - more damaging to the community.
 

ingoreis

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I want a Life Sign from IDV.


Do he not read here?


The last 40 1GHZ Pandora PCBs arrive soon and when this with the Case not work then do i want this Money for one 1GHZ Pandora PCB.


IDV please write us,can you do it or not?


But let us not more hang here plase.


The last 40 Pieces of 1GHZ PCB will be gone soon and these are REALY the last Pieces which are produced Forever.
 
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Jumpman

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At the end of the day, my funds for this case are sitting with ED(safe & sound). If anyone no longer wants to wait, get a refund, why is this thread derailed over delays?

Is IDV on the up and up? I have no idea. I wanted the aluminum case, so I preordered one. There has been no signs of life really, but I'm cool waiting.

I know several business owners, professionals of all levels of industry, and I've seen great management and organisation among the best there is, and I've also seen the worst. Some people are great at their jobs, but could never run a business properly on their own. A lot of successful people surround themselves with people who posses the skills they lack. I'm not sure how well IDV functions at his chosen profession, but maybe taking on a side project on his own was more than he could handle, I really don't know.

I'm still looking forward to getting this case, as I have no plans to sale my Pandora, even once the Pyra arrives, so this case is still very wanted by me(as the standard case has many flaws and defects). For others, the longer this takes, and the closer the Pyra gets to reality, I'm sure this item will no longer be wanted or needed by many, and depending on how far that total falls, this may not get done.

Since we needed a set number to preorder to make this happen, and since ED still has those funds, I'll assume IDV is paying the current R&D out of his pocket. So it is in his best interest to get this done sooner, rather than later, or he stands to have the remaining funds pulled by waiting customers. Yes, this is way past the estimates, so I'm sure many are just not thinking this will happen, and I'm on the same side of the fence, but I'm not going to name call and lump IDV in with Craig, as my funds aren't being misused or mismanaged in any way.

Chris
 

EvilDragon

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I say nothing bad about him ,but maybe a Picture/Screenshot of the 3D Modeling or near...

..that would be nice,because we see no work here.
There is no real 3D modelling.

It's axis movement data that gets hacked into the machine.

Want to see a list of a bunch of coordinates? :)
 

EvilDragon

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I want a Life Sign from IDV.

Do he not read here?

The last 40 1GHZ Pandora PCBs arrive soon and when this with the Case not work then do i want this Money for one 1GHZ Pandora PCB.
I'm in contact with him and he's pretty much busy with everything.

Half of the company is ill (flu and stuff like that) and they've got two important jobs with deadlines they need to finish first.

The first one has been finished a few days ago (he just sent me a mail after that in the middle of the night from work!), the second one is being done, then it's Pandora time.

He really doesn't have the time to check here right now with all that work to catch up (especially with ill people after the machine had issues... double problem!)
 

ingoreis

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Thats Right,saving own Company and Work is more Important.


The important Thing is a Lifesign from him.


Thx for delivering this Information to us EvilDragon.


I will be wait then and wish all worker there that the Flu go fast away.


Ok i will still wait then ;)
 
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