Aluminium Case being made!


FaeMinx

Rainbow Liberation Instigation
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
Messages
3,129
Age
40
Location
outside looking in side looking out
^ I seriously doubt that would be feasible. While the cases do look vary similar at first glance, there will be far too many small changes to make it work. All the ports are placed differently. I believe the width is also slightly different. The lid will be quite different, so will the hinge and you've already mentioned the keyboard. I'm no authority, but I can confidently say No. :)


The best hope is that enough people get an aluminium case for their Pandora so that it becomes a viable option for the Pyra as well.


That's half the reason I ordered one...


=~. O =
 

rygD

Nihilistic Mystic
Joined
Feb 28, 2014
Messages
7,464
Location
Everywhere
I like the info about the case thickness.  I hope any additional thickness will make it more durable.
I doubt that alu has to be (much) thicker than the plastic case to be durable, its metal, it can be compared thin actualy. ;)
I don't know anything about AW7075 other than what I have been able to figure out based on discussions here, and maybe a couple little things I picked up through research.  I have had plastics that were only a little thicker than Al foil that were much harder, so I don't really know what to expect.  Hg (mercury), another metal, can be much thicker than a piece of plastic, yet if I poke it with a stick the stick will go through it easier than the plastic.

Either way, the real reason for my concern is if I sit with my Pandora in my pocket I don't want to bend the case, or if I have keys in the pocket I don't want them to press into it so much they put a big dent in it.  I am unlikely to do the key thing, but I do sometimes sit with my plastic cased Pandora in my pocket. 
 

FaeMinx

Rainbow Liberation Instigation
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
Messages
3,129
Age
40
Location
outside looking in side looking out
^ Even though I will now feel comfortable keeping my Pandora in a pocket without it's soft case for protection... I still would make sure there is nothing else in there. It's amazing how even the hardest materials will pick up a scratch just to spite you in a moment of carelessness. ;)


=~. O =
 

thatgui

Advanced Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Messages
3,048
Don't forget, if a business makes something at cost (or in this case, a prototype for nothing), all the time spent on that "freebie" is dead time - it can't be used to make money on something else. 


... 


I understand how some people consider it a leap of faith to order in this manner, but it is simply not right to expect IDV to make a protoype.
But its equally not right to expect from everyone that leap of faith. I know this is a chicken and egg problem, but I'm holding back my preorder unless I have something substantial I can evaluate wether spending 100€ on it or not is worth it. 100€ is a big amount money for me, which I would be willing to spent, if I would have even the slightest clue about my concerns will be addressed or not:

  • Wifi window, some may find using an USB dongle an adequate solution, I don't. So as long there isn't even a confirmation that there will be one, and at least some ideas are presented to cope with that, internal WiFi is considered dead by me.
  • Hinge: Currently hinge friction is based on paint, something we can not expect from an hardcoated aluminum case. So will there only be the option of the lid beeing fully open or fully close? If so I'm out.
  • Display cable: the cable goes through a part where a lot of movement will be happening during normal use. Especially with a hard coated material, there is a possibilty of wear and tear due to display cable "rasping" along the inner side of the case. Unneccesary concern ?
  • Keeping things together: A lot is currently held together with plastic clips, which won't be possible in this case. How will this be adressed ? I know, with screws, but thats rather unspecific and may be problematic in the display area (with very thin material).
  • Weight: I know its hard to tell, but the material has a specific mass, and there must be at least some estimation on how much material will be left for the case. I don't want to carry a brick around (weight wise)
  • Handling: how will the different weight affect balancing of the device, how will the skin "react" to the much harder, maybe not as smooth surface , etc. ?

it is just too much unclarity for me, to justify it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

IDV

Still Fresh
Joined
Jul 8, 2014
Messages
19
@thatgui

A prototype would cost around 4000 Euro extra, which means a single case would be 150+ Euro then. And I will not make any prototype unless I get paid for it. I already bear the risk for the whole lot as I do not get any money in advance.

Wifi Window: It is very unlikely that wifi will not work afterwards. Possibly you have to leave the lid open for best wifi performance.

Hinge: The hinge is part of the redesign. There are many possibilites to design a well working and durable friction hinge also on hard coated aluminum.

Display cable: I will have a fully equipped Pandora to check components and cables. I will have an extra eye on the LCD cable channel

Keeping things together: It is close to an insult to assume that an engineer might be unable to place some screws properly. I will use TORX screws or hexagon class 8 or higher. The thread length and dimensions will be accoding to DIN / ISO standards.

Weight: The raw material blocks will be around 3 kg, so the Aluminum case will not be more than 400 - 800 g

Handling: The surface will be very smooth and skin friendly (hypoallergenic, easy to clean).

it is just too much unclarity for me, to justify it.
You are not forced to order one. At more than 4000 Pandoras out in the field, you might not be as important as you feel.

@rygD

AW7075 (540 N/mm²) is even stronger than standard construction steel (360 N/mm²). I am pretty sure that the new Pandora case will be strong enough that a person can stand on it without causing any damage to it. Perhaps I can make it even strong enough to withstand a passenger car rolling over it (lid closed).

@ FaeMinx

If this project works out well, I would be interested in manufacturing an Aluminum case for the Pyra, too.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

thatgui

Advanced Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Messages
3,048
A prototype would cost around 4000 Euro extra, which means a single case would be 150+ Euro then. And I will not make any prototype unless I get paid for it. I already bear the risk for the whole lot as I do not get any money in advance.

....

You are not forced to order one. At more than 4000 Pandoras out in the field, you might not be as important as you feel.
Neiter did I demand a prototype nor do I think I am important (where did you get that impression from anyway ?).

Anyway, I just wanted to explain, why I'm holding back on a possible preorder, just as a counterpart to MarkWs post. Nothing more, nothing less.

But thanks for adressing my questions in detail, especially the weight part is interesting. With the Pandora weighing rougly 330g, this would mean, it will almost double the weight. So I am definately out.

I still hope there will be enough people to fund it, so the Pyra may get an Aluminum case, which surely would help raise sales.
 

Hồng Thất Công

Đả Cẩu Bổng Pháp
Joined
Dec 19, 2012
Messages
4,384
Location
Cái Bang
Of course it will be heavier because this thing is metal and stronger than steel. Considering we are going from a whimpsy plastic case where we're all afraid to even let sneeze on it for fear of cracking to a case where you can stand on without any issue. I think it is worth it.
 

thatgui

Advanced Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Messages
3,048
Of course it will be heavier because this thing is metal and stronger than steel. Considering we are going from a whimpsy plastic case where we're all afraid to even let sneeze on it for fear of cracking to a case where you can stand on without any issue. I think it is worth it.
Thats just use case depended. If you consider durability beeing of more importance than portability, then the Aluminum case may offer a good deal for you. I'm more interested in keeping my Pandora as portable as possible - and as it looks like, I am in the rare situation where an original black case is still fine after more then three years of use (except the battery lid, but thats due to me dropping the Pandora on a stone tiled floor).
 

Tenka

Snakes and Fish
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Messages
701
I remember the large shipping charge being mentioned but I can't find it in this topic now.  I wonder why that's so high for such a small and durable item, it makes the total price about 68 € more than I can personally afford right now. 

(Edit: Oh I can change the shipping option, I've found it)

But besides that problem I'm completely sold.  The strength IDV has described of the new case actually satisfies me, with this I could finally stand to carry my Pandora around at all.  Thanks for answering everything everyone has asked.  I also greatly desire shoulder buttons made of the same splendid AW7075, so the closed case wouldn't have any weak spots.  I hope that you're still considering making them too.

Of course, I would like all of the game buttons and d-pad made of this, and my bones and teeth and eyes, but I'm sure that's too much to hope for.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Hồng Thất Công

Đả Cẩu Bổng Pháp
Joined
Dec 19, 2012
Messages
4,384
Location
Cái Bang
Of course it will be heavier because this thing is metal and stronger than steel. Considering we are going from a whimpsy plastic case where we're all afraid to even let sneeze on it for fear of cracking to a case where you can stand on without any issue. I think it is worth it.
Thats just use case depended. If you consider durability beeing of more importance than portability, then the Aluminum case may offer a good deal for you. I'm more interested in keeping my Pandora as portable as possible - and as it looks like, I am in the rare situation where an original black case is still fine after more then three years of use (except the battery lid, but thats due to me dropping the Pandora on a stone tiled floor).
OK.  You should get one just to shut those who told you that your pandora plastic case suck and to support PYRA aluminum case development in the future  ;)
 

GOGO

Still Fresh
Joined
Jul 16, 2013
Messages
36
Just pre-ordered one grey aluminium case, I guess.

I was ordering some case parts in addition, keymat, face and shoulder buttons etc. -- just in case I will need some. And the more ED sells, the better for him and the project. But the cart showed some weird numbers.

The second time it was nearly fine - cart showed icon of black case instead of grey case and some minor other issues. So i wrote a message and got an error saying the message could not be saved.

After finishing the order anway, the shop wanted me to login again when I was clicking on order history. after logging in again, the cart was full but the history empty. At that point I got scared and was writing en e-mail via contact form.

So I guess I pre-ordered an aluminium case, but I'm not sure.
 

levi

Still fresh, damnit!
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
12,961
Location
Somewhere off the coast of the EU
AW7075 (540 N/mm²) is even stronger than standard construction steel (360 N/mm²). I am pretty sure that the new Pandora case will be strong enough that a person can stand on it without causing any damage to it. Perhaps I can make it even strong enough to withstand a passenger car rolling over it (lid closed).
I am no engineer, but from a quick google it seems that that 540 Nmm-2 is the minimum tensile strength of the material. For the test of standing on it, I'd have thought the young's modulus and elastic limit of the material would be more concerning - or is that something that tends to increase with the tensile strength as well?
 

GOGO

Still Fresh
Joined
Jul 16, 2013
Messages
36
Yes, that's a stupid bug in the checkout page.


It will register the way you ordered though.
At least I got a confirmation e-mail saying the message by contact form was successfully received. Payment method: bank transfer please. thanks. :)
 

edgex004

Advanced Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Messages
1,204
Of course it will be heavier because this thing is metal and stronger than steel. Considering we are going from a whimpsy plastic case where we're all afraid to even let sneeze on it for fear of cracking to a case where you can stand on without any issue. I think it is worth it.
Thats just use case depended. If you consider durability beeing of more importance than portability, then the Aluminum case may offer a good deal for you. I'm more interested in keeping my Pandora as portable as possible - and as it looks like, I am in the rare situation where an original black case is still fine after more then three years of use (except the battery lid, but thats due to me dropping the Pandora on a stone tiled floor).
I am inclined to agree with you, but I want to try the aluminum case with the Pandora in order to preview what it might be like on Pyra and enjoy the extra feature of extreme durability as my Pandora becomes "legacy" in my life. I'm assuming the weight will make my unit too heavy to remain comfortably pocketable, so I will probably go with aluminum for my Pandora that will be bag-portable and carbon fiber/plastic on the Pyra which will be my phone/laptop replacement. If the aluminum ends up being light enough on my pocket, I will consider upgrading my future Pyra as well.
 

MrBazil2k

Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
199
@IDV : Thank you very much for your answers in detail.

First of all I want to wish you good luck with this project of yours.

@All :

But I am sorry to say this :

At its current state, Im not convinced to send my money into this.
Dont get me wrong again, I would really like to see this project come to live.
A very well made, milled, high tensile aluminium case at low weight would be a blast for the Pandora.
What I just dont want to see is a very poor made brick of Aluminium,
barely able to be carried around with, due to its dimensions and weight increasment.
A barely fitting PCB, Display, Displaycable and Keymat is the worst you can create here.

For my taste there are just too many unsolved variables left.

To sum it up :

        No reworked / redesigned CAD-Models available yet.
        No proper calculation of the production costs possible due to the lack of reworked CAD-Models.
        No assurance of a functional working Al-Case at all.
        WiFi = ?,
        Bluetooth = ?,
        Weight = ?,
        Dimensions = ?,
        Hinge = ?,
        LCD-cablemanagment = ?,
        PCB-fixation = ?,
        Keymat-functionality = ?,
        LED-functionality = ?,
        How does it really look like in the end = ?,
        (Any drilled holes left on the surface caused by clamping = ?)
        and so on...
        

Im even not sure if that 9.000 / 12.000 rpm max (only) milling spindle provides you with enough circumferential speed
for the kind of tool-diameters you are going to require for our tiny little Pandora casings.
I do not expect a 1:1 copy, but there are several tricky corners around this current case-design which might be
required in aluminium redesign as well.

For me everything starts and falls with a fully functional prototype.
Everything else is far off the paths of engineering.
 
 

pmprog

DNF (Did Not Finish)
Joined
Apr 25, 2011
Messages
4,076
Yes, that's a stupid bug in the checkout page.

It will register the way you ordered though.
ED, When I preordered the aluminium case, I ordered the "let you change it for me" option, would it be possible to send back the plastic case with the pandora in the metal case when changed?
 

GOGO

Still Fresh
Joined
Jul 16, 2013
Messages
36
Yes, that's a stupid bug in the checkout page.


It will register the way you ordered though.
ED, When I preordered the aluminium case, I ordered the "let you change it for me" option, would it be possible to send back the plastic case with the pandora in the metal case when changed?
I presume you will get your plastic case back of course. Just in case anything goes wrong with the aluminium case. After all you already payed for the plastic case when you brought your pandora.
 
Top