Aluminium Case being made!

[MrBazil2k]

Im usually not that type of guy ... but ... ROFL

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

Im usually not that type of guy ... but ... ROFL

  [Joke] So if you don't get your case after you order and you complain, you may get an arrow instead [/Joke]

Im usually not that type of guy ... but ... ROFL

  [Joke] So if you don't get your case after you order and you complain, you may get an arrow instead.  In which case I will get two arrows  [/Joke]

 

[MrBazil2k]

Please dont get me wrong Shenmue.

I didnt mean to offend by my last coment.
I am just worried about the realism of the production costs ... =)
 

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

Heh, I was just joking

 

[spud42]

Im usually not that type of guy ... but ... ROFL

  [Joke] So if you don't get your case after you order and you complain, you may get an arrow instead [/Joke]

Im usually not that type of guy ... but ... ROFL

  [Joke] So if you don't get your case after you order and you complain, you may get an arrow instead.  In which case I will get two arrows  [/Joke]

just not in the knee please.. not again.... lol

 

[IDV]

@ mrbazil2k

How many parts does the Al-Case consists of ?

- I still don't know exactly, as I will start the redesign not before 100 preoders are reached. But I aready had a look at the CAD-models and do not see any severe problems.

Are the shoulder buttons made of Aluminium as well ?

- I will have a look at these. But probably no (or we sell them as an extra item)

Did you redesign the CAD-Models yourself ?

- Yes, I do.

Whats the weight of the Al-Case you are aiming for ?

- As I did not start the redesign, I do not know. At many places it will be much thicker than the plastic case as I try to keep machining time low.

Whats the minimum thickness of the Aluminium case you are planning so far ?

- depending on the inner space needed, I will try not to have less than 2 mm anywhere

Can you tell me the brand and type of 5-axis milling machine you mentioned before ?

- SPINNER U5-1520 compact. Extras: Chip conveyor, Heidenhain glass scales on all axis, high performance software package (Siemens Shop-mill).

Whats the cost per hour of that machinery ?

- around 80 Euro plus Tax

You have already a prototype of a milled Al-Case in front of you ?

- No (see above).

How many years of CAD/CAM experience can you refer to?

- I started CAD construction in around 1990: "Auto-Sketch", later I had Auto-CAD LT, then CADdy++ and now SolidEdge. Also I worked with EAGLE (since 1995) and ELCAD.

And which software-knowledge are we talking about ?

- We are using "SolidEdge ST5 Premium" right now, plus the usual Office software.

- If you mean CNC programming: ISO, Siemens Shopmill and Heidenhain Manual Plus.

- If you mean programming: I have finished successful projects in embedded Assembler, ANSI C, C++, Pascal, and different SPS programming languages.

You are going to mill the parts yourself ?

- Yes.

You ever stood in front of a milling machine ?

- Yes. I had my first turning lathe and milling machine bought in 1988. I got my first CNC in 1999 (a DMC 63V)

When did you graduate from TU-Karlsruhe ?

- My diploma document bears the date "December 31st, 1997"

What happens if the production costs exceed the collected amount of preorder money ?

- I will be unhappy

And for everyone in doubt: I know the history of the Pandora project. That's why I won't get a penny before Evil Dragon has checked and approved the cases. The prepaid money is conducted by EvilDragon alone.

Does this answer your questions?

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

IDV, let's go back to a week ago when no one knows that you're able to make this Al case, and let's say if you were to make 1 complete case for yourself how much would it cost just to make just one case?

 

[IDV]

A single case would bear the same workload in preparation as 100+. The milling work itself is the smallest part of this challenge.

There is:

- CAD redesign

- CAM conversion

- calculate and purchasing material and tools

- wait for material and tools to arrive

- setup the machine (placing the vices, gauging their position, gauging the milling tools, loading them into the magzine)

- load program into the machine and test it

n = 0;

WHILE n++ <= amount_ordered

{ - put the raw material into the vices, press the button and wait for the machine to finish it.

  - clean the parts and the vices

  - check the parts

  - deburr the parts

  - stack them in a transport box

}

- clean the machine

- remove and clean tools and vices

- generate order and freight papers

- ship the parts to surface treatment

- wait to get them back from surface treatment

- check the parts finally

- generate freight papers and invoice

- ship all the stuff to Evil Dragon

- wait for the money

 

[Xcl4m4t10n]

IDV i know it is difficult but... there's no possibility to do a prototype case? I know it's hard as hell but for me is also hard to pay 100€+ for a item

 

[pmprog]

Are the shoulder buttons made of Aluminium as well ? - I will have a look at these. But probably no (or we sell them as an extra item)

Thanks. It would keep the case consistant, but yeah, not sure if it's worth it tbh.
Look forward to getting my hands on one

 

[fusion_power]

IDV i know it is difficult but... there's no possibility to do a prototype case? I know it's hard as hell but for me is also hard to pay 100€+ for a item

Just wait until the first real pics of the case appear if you are unsure. I'm sure once the Alu case is done in real and shown in all of it's glory, it will basicly sell itself. 

 

[rygD]

I like the info about the case thickness.  I hope any additional thickness will make it more durable.

I would like to find out the percentage of people who want the wifi window.  If we could avoid this it might help with production and it would help me make a decision, as well as ensure that area is not a weak point in the case.  Is the wifi window dictated by ED?

 

[MarkW]

Don't forget, if a business makes something at cost (or in this case, a prototype for nothing), all the time spent on that "freebie" is dead time - it can't be used to make money on something else.

Taking a drawing, breaking the finished product into a series of operations, writing the programs for each operation, designing stable machine setups to hold the component securely and safely for each operation (without damaging previously machined surfaces), building the individual setups, and then proving the individual programs is a fairly long process that only makes sense when you do it for a "larger" order, or when there is the potential to make money. A prototype in this situation just doesn't make sense - particularly when you consider all the time required to produce the one off may end up being thrown away completley - which wouldn't be good. And there is always a cost, even if the programmer/setter/operator gives their time for nothing. The mill depreciates in value every day it is on the shop floor, needs electricity to power it, and coolant for the tools. Then there are the cutters and drills - which all have to be accounted for. Even if you used regrinds (don't know if these are still used but they were in my day) to prove the concpet, they still cost.

I understand how some people consider it a leap of faith to order in this manner, but it is simply not right to expect IDV to make a protoype. Even if a prototype was made, there is no guarantee that it will be the catalyst to ensure the MoQ is hit. I think we should applaud IDV for giving us this opportunity, and try and find a way to get those order numbers up. And yes, I've ponied up - and am keeping my fingers crossed. My experience with machine operators (and yes, I used to do protoype CNC mill work) is that they care enough to make a good product - I know I would have taken it very personally if an inspector had sidled up to me and announced that my last job had just been scrapped by the client because 1 dimension was .001" out of tolerance, perhaps because I had used an incremental bed movement instead of an absolute movement.

 

[Xcl4m4t10n]

IDV i know it is difficult but... there's no possibility to do a prototype case? I know it's hard as hell but for me is also hard to pay 100€+ for a item

Just wait until the first real pics of the case appear if you are unsure. I'm sure once the Alu case is done in real and shown in all of it's glory, it will basicly sell itself. 

Yes, that was my final option and i'm afraid i have to do this. I hope i can get a Pandora in some months .

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

Don't forget, if a business makes something at cost (or in this case, a prototype for nothing), all the time spent on that "freebie" is dead time - it can't be used to make money on something else.

Taking a drawing, breaking the finished product into a series of operations, writing the programs for each operation, designing stable machine setups to hold the component securely and safely for each operation (without damaging previously machined surfaces), building the individual setups, and then proving the individual programs is a fairly long process that only makes sense when you do it for a "larger" order, or when there is the potential to make money. A prototype in this situation just doesn't make sense - particularly when you consider all the time required to produce the one off may end up being thrown away completley - which wouldn't be good. And there is always a cost, even if the programmer/setter/operator gives their time for nothing. The mill depreciates in value every day it is on the shop floor, needs electricity to power it, and coolant for the tools. Then there are the cutters and drills - which all have to be accounted for. Even if you used regrinds (don't know if these are still used but they were in my day) to prove the concpet, they still cost.

I understand how some people consider it a leap of faith to order in this manner, but it is simply not right to expect IDV to make a protoype. Even if a prototype was made, there is no guarantee that it will be the catalyst to ensure the MoQ is hit. I think we should applaud IDV for giving us this opportunity, and try and find a way to get those order numbers up. And yes, I've ponied up - and am keeping my fingers crossed. My experience with machine operators (and yes, I used to do protoype CNC mill work) is that they care enough to make a good product - I know I would have taken it very personally if an inspector had sidled up to me and announced that my last job had just been scrapped by the client because 1 dimension was .001" out of tolerance, perhaps because I had used an incremental bed movement instead of an absolute movement.

Ah!  Thanks for the detailed explanations!  I do applaud IDV and ED for this awesome initiative, and that's why I've order 2 of them to support the this project as I've always wanted to have an aluminum case for my pandora since I've own it.

OK, people, let's place more order please

 

[FaeMinx]

I also could do without the WiFi window... But I don't really want to lose Bluetooth.

 

[comradekingu]

Well that was exactly the kind of information i was wondering about. Also it tells me IDV is in with professional sounding support for free atm.

We could produce a rendering of the case files in jet black and mouse gray alu. 

http://www.luxrender.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5891&sid=6d2c60f8d10e6f17b54a56f7d67b81e1   www.luxrender.net/wiki/Building_on_Linux  www.luxrender.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5891

I failed to do it in freeCAD, so thats where im at with that currently.

Will update the wiki.

 

[rygD]

We could produce a rendering of the case files in jet black and mouse gray alu.   

ED is on it.  Check the other thread and https://www.dragonbox.de/en/pandora/192-pandora-aluminium-case-preorder.html

 

[Gruntfuggly]

I don't expect the answer to the following question to be yes, but I thought I'd ask it anyway...

Is it possible that the case could be reused for the Pyra? In other words, it would be cool if I could buy one now for my Pandora, and then when the Pyra comes out, transfer it?  I know that the front panel (keyboard) will be different, but maybe the panel could be (is already?) a separate part that could be changed?

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

I don't expect the answer to the following question to be yes, but I thought I'd ask it anyway...

Is it possible that the case could be reused for the Pyra? In other words, it would be cool if I could buy one now for my Pandora, and then when the Pyra comes out, transfer it?  I know that the front panel (keyboard) will be different, but maybe the panel could be (is already?) a separate part that could be changed?

NO.  the dimensions, and among other things, are different for pandora and pyra...

Also, the pyra case are not finalized yet so no way this case is gonna work with pyra...