[Cancelled] Aluminium cases are NOT being made!


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Eight Bit

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As ED said: I did not get a penny for the aluminum cases so far - and I will not ask for it before we really deliver the cases (after ED approved them).

I can somehow understand your desire for just-in-time information.

But please also understand me: The Pandora case is not the only subject I have to deal with at the moment - and believe me: I want to earn that money as soon as possible and with a product which is good enough to also get the order for a big lot of Pyra Aluminum cases.

As stated before: We still do not have a CAM-Processor, but I wasted the full (to-)day with a salesman from another company offering such CAM software - and his Postprocessor worked pretty well in the first trial. But they recommend a two weeks training (7 - 9 working days) before you can use their program properly. Also I cannot swap the cotracts so easily (have to wait another 2 - 3 weeks before I can return the license of the software I already ordered). And we are talking about Software with a 10 - 15.000 Euro price tag on it (+ monthly maintenance/update/support fees).

And the Pandora is not the only order we need it for. :wacko:

And - no: I did not order the Aluminum yet, because I do not want material worth thousands of Euro sitting on the floor longer than necessary. But I can get the material within a few days, as soon as I am ready to process it. There is definetely no shortage of Aluminum. ;)

Presenting Screenshots, Renderings etc.: I already have got a 12 hours working day (and a lot of other construction/production work to do, all with deadlines ...), so please understand that I will not do that before the first real cases are ready (and tested). Anyway: The aluminum cases will not look much different from the Plastic ones. The main differences will be hidden inside (thicker walls etc.).
Thanks for the update. I´ll patiently await further news ;)

Btw, as far as I'm concerned the case doesn´t have to be the same as the polastic one. A somewhat more rugged (heavy duty) look would be cool! ;)
 

fusion_power

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Thanks for the update. Take your time, I'm sure it will all work out at the end. The Pandora Community is trained in waiting for stuff, no worries. ^^

As stated before: We still do not have a CAM-Processor, but I wasted the full (to-)day with a salesman from another company offering such CAM software - and his Postprocessor worked pretty well in the first trial. But they recommend a two weeks training (7 - 9 working days) before you can use their program properly. Also I cannot swap the cotracts so easily (have to wait another 2 - 3 weeks before I can return the license of the software I already ordered). And we are talking about Software with a 10 - 15.000 Euro price tag on it (+ monthly maintenance/update/support fees).
And the Pandora is not the only order we need it for. :wacko:
15K euro? Is there no free open source software that can do the same? You know, there is open source software almost for everything. ;)

Seriously, how is this stuff usualy handled, meaning transfer normal CAD/CAM formats into a CNC mill?  my CNC experience was long time ago in the middle 90's where we coded CNC stuff directly for the machine, only in 2D of course and way simpler than the complex and 3 dimensional Pandora case. So I can imagine what a work this can be.  But I thought todays machines can "eat" the usual 3D files, .stl ot .sat or whatever (like 3D printers do these days).

But maybe this is on purpose so they can sell you overpriced "professional" software including weeks of training.  
 
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drock

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Appreciate the update IDV.  Hope things start going smoothly.  I know I would buy an aluminum pyra case if the option was given to me
 

rygD

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IDV, thanks for letting us know what's going on.  I would rather have a quality case that takes a bit longer, and increases the likelihood of an aluminum Pyra case.  Your effort is greatly appreciated.  

I know I would buy an aluminum pyra case if the option was given to me
There is a way to help make that happen (spread the word, help get the aluminum Pandora cases and Pyras into more hands).
 
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PokeParadox

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Thanks for the updates... it's looking possible I will get an Alu case tooo since I will have to send my broken Pandora to ED to be nursed back to health... it would be a two birds with one stone thing...
 

spud42

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Thanks for the update. Take your time, I'm sure it will all work out at the end. The Pandora Community is trained in waiting for stuff, no worries. ^^

As stated before: We still do not have a CAM-Processor, but I wasted the full (to-)day with a salesman from another company offering such CAM software - and his Postprocessor worked pretty well in the first trial. But they recommend a two weeks training (7 - 9 working days) before you can use their program properly. Also I cannot swap the cotracts so easily (have to wait another 2 - 3 weeks before I can return the license of the software I already ordered). And we are talking about Software with a 10 - 15.000 Euro price tag on it (+ monthly maintenance/update/support fees).


And the Pandora is not the only order we need it for. :wacko:
15K euro? Is there no free open source software that can do the same? You know, there is open source software almost for everything. ;)

Seriously, how is this stuff usualy handled, meaning transfer normal CAD/CAM formats into a CNC mill?  my CNC experience was long time ago in the middle 90's where we coded CNC stuff directly for the machine, only in 2D of course and way simpler than the complex and 3 dimensional Pandora case. So I can imagine what a work this can be.  But I thought todays machines can "eat" the usual 3D files, .stl ot .sat or whatever (like 3D printers do these days).

But maybe this is on purpose so they can sell you overpriced "professional" software including weeks of training.  
 my first job was a CNC programmer on a Laser cutter in a metal working factory in 1981. we had to program G code by hand on to punch tape using an ASR teletype terminal. then take the tapes out to the laser to read them. all 2d of course... be interested to see how its done 30 years later...  i could prog you a flat case but you would have to fold and weld it...lol not a great idea as i would be very rusty by now...
 

fusion_power

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my first job was a CNC programmer on a Laser cutter in a metal working factory in 1981. we had to program G code by hand on to punch tape using an ASR teletype terminal. then take the tapes out to the laser to read them. all 2d of course... be interested to see how its done 30 years later...  i could prog you a flat case but you would have to fold and weld it...lol not a great idea as i would be very rusty by now...
Cool, at least there were Laser Cutters already back in 1981, impressive. :) I was 3 Years old in 1981 and I lived in the former GDR, (east germany). Not sure if they even had CNC there. :D


Yes, if you have to code every radius, angle and hole per hand, it can be very time intensive, even in 2D. So it would be a gereat help to have a program that does all the job, meaning translating a 3D model into a readable format for a CNC machine. I can imagine this must be very complex, even in 2D, compared to a 3D printer. Maybe the tooling changing has to be choosen too, if that's not done per hand. There are impressive CNC machines today that have auto tool revolver change mechanics. Our school version back in the 90's was a more simple model and like mentioned before, already hard to code for. ^^"
 
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IDV

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@Fuison Power:

Yes there are Open Source CAM-Processors available and also software with a 90% lower price (like Desk Proto, MAD-CAM, oder Vectrix).

These are all fine for hobby milling oder rapid prototyping and I have got one of them on my computer, e.g. to produce seal rings.

To run a CNC milling center worth 200k Euro economically (unfortunately) needs a much more sophisticated software.

Additional technologies (e.g. thread cutting with sychronized spindle), and high speed milling technologies (up to 10 times more material in the same time, much higher tool endurance) and the ease of use make the difference. Also indexing the B and C-Axis (so you don't need to turn the parts in the vice) is something you hardly find in Low-Cost Software.

For example: The same part can take 2 hours on a cheap software or 10 - 12 Minutes with an "expensive" CAM Processor. This makes a big difference when you have to produce 100+ parts. Also there is a remarkable difference in the surface quality and the safety of code generation - even minor bugs in the Postprocessor can easily result in a lot of very expensive damage.

My milling center is a 5-axis "Spinner U5-1520" with an automatic 24 tool magazine (SK40), chip conveyor, a 12.000 rpm spindle (25 kW, 100 Nm) and a guaranteed precision of 8 µm or better (with Heidenhain glass scales on all axes). The axis lengths are: x = 1520 mm, y = 540 mm, z = 450 mm, B = +110° ... -90°, C = n*360° (unlimited)

The shopfloor programming system (on the machine) is Siemens ShopMill or ISO G-Code (with some extensions) and the electrical supply is 3 x 400 V / 50 A. The gross weight of the machine is 10,5 to (standing on a 22 tons steel fiber concrete base).

It's a lovely toy for an engineer :wub:
 
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Binky

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My milling center is a 5-axis "Spinner U5-1520" with an automatic 24 tool magazine (SK40), chip conveyor, a 12.000 rpm spindle (25 kW, 100 Nm) and a guaranteed precision of 8 µm or better (with Heidenhain glass scales on all axes). The axis lengths are: x = 1520 mm, y = 540 mm, z = 450 mm, B = +110° ... -90°, C = n*360° (unlimited)
The shopfloor programming system (on the machine) is Siemens ShopMill or ISO G-Code (with some extensions) and the electrical supply is 3 x 400 V / 50 A. The gross weight of the machine is 10,5 to (standing on a 22 tons steel fiber concrete base).
You don't want a big thing like that taking up all your valuable workshop space!

Tell you what, I'll look after it for you. Just bring it over here sometime next week and I'll be happy to keep it safe for as long as you like :p
 

fusion_power

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@Fuison Power:


Yes there are Open Source CAM-Processors available and also software with a 90% lower price (like Desk Proto, MAD-CAM, oder Vectrix).


These are all fine for hobby milling oder rapid prototyping and I have got one of them on my computer, e.g. to produce seal rings.


To run a CNC milling center worth 200k Euro economically (unfortunately) needs a much more sophisticated software.


Additional technologies (e.g. thread cutting with sychronized spindle), and high speed milling technologies (up to 10 times more material in the same time, much higher tool endurance) and the ease of use make the difference. Also indexing the B and C-Axis (so you don't need to turn the parts in the vice) is something you hardly find in Low-Cost Software.


For example: The same part can take 2 hours on a cheap software or 10 - 12 Minutes with an "expensive" CAM Processor. This makes a big difference when you have to produce 100+ parts. Also there is a remarkable difference in the surface quality and the safety of code generation - even minor bugs in the Postprocessor can easily result in a lot of very expensive damage.


My milling center is a 5-axis "Spinner U5-1520" with an automatic 24 tool magazine (SK40), chip conveyor, a 12.000 rpm spindle (25 kW, 100 Nm) and a guaranteed precision of 8 µm or better (with Heidenhain glass scales on all axes). The axis lengths are: x = 1520 mm, y = 540 mm, z = 450 mm, B = +110° ... -90°, C = n*360° (unlimited)


The shopfloor programming system (on the machine) is Siemens ShopMill or ISO G-Code (with some extensions) and the electrical supply is 3 x 400 V / 50 A. The gross weight of the machine is 10,5 to (standing on a 22 tons steel fiber concrete base).


It's a lovely toy for an engineer :wub:
Wow, I always wanted my own seal ring, really!  :wub:    All I've ever got so far was only the sealing wax, at least it is a good one.   :rolleyes:


Impressive machine and I understand that this multi-tool, multi-axis monster needs a little bit more beefy software to be driven efficiently. And it's true indeed: time is money. So if this machine can do such precise work in such short time, it's really much more efficient than every pseudo-"cheap" solution that takes 10x the time. This may be worth a good software.

You don't want a big thing like that taking up all your valuable workshop space!


Tell you what, I'll look after it for you. Just bring it over here sometime next week and I'll be happy to keep it safe for as long as you like :p
Lol. :D  I guess you have the matching wall socket ready then to power up that thing, right? ;)
 
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spud42

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my first job was a CNC programmer on a Laser cutter in a metal working factory in 1981. we had to program G code by hand on to punch tape using an ASR teletype terminal. then take the tapes out to the laser to read them. all 2d of course... be interested to see how its done 30 years later...  i could prog you a flat case but you would have to fold and weld it...lol not a great idea as i would be very rusty by now...
Cool, at least there were Laser Cutters already back in 1981, impressive. :) I was 3 Years old in 1981 and I lived in the former GDR, (east germany). Not sure if they even had CNC there. :D


Yes, if you have to code every radius, angle and hole per hand, it can be very time intensive, even in 2D. So it would be a gereat help to have a program that does all the job, meaning translating a 3D model into a readable format for a CNC machine. I can imagine this must be very complex, even in 2D, compared to a 3D printer. Maybe the tooling changing has to be choosen too, if that's not done per hand. There are impressive CNC machines today that have auto tool revolver change mechanics. Our school version back in the 90's was a more simple model and like mentioned before, already hard to code for. ^^"
lol.. i was 20 in 1981, did the first year of electrical engineering at university in 1979 but couldnt put up with the first two years of the course being 95% civil/mechanical engineering biased. i had no interedt in desigining bridges!! lol
 

elwing

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Spending my first few month back then was nice, or so I would hope...
 
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