Business Plan finished, ready to gather investors! (2011 - 09 - 09)

[EvilDragon]

It's no stock. It's a share of my company, it's different from stocks.


Investors can't sell their share to others.


The investors can pull back their investment. WHEN is defined in the contract.


You can have long-time investors but it's also possible to make a contract with investors in which is defined that they get their share back after xx years.


This all depends on the contract which is currently being worked on by my lawyers.


I will also discuss this individually with the big investors, as I want to give them the best offer I can.

 

[WizardStan]

I'm using share and stock interchangeably because they basically mean the same thing for our purposes. There are some situations where a stock is not a share, but in this case they are the same. Think of it as so: a share is just a piece of the pie; a stock says how big the pie and its pieces are, how a shareholder can eat it, what to do if the shareholder doesn't want that pie anymore, etc...


Either way, they can be defined however you want: callable, expiring, non-transferable, dividend paying, fixed interest, non-voting, or any combination thereof.


The standard for a stock from a publicly traded company, called "Common Stock", would be transferable voting shares: they don't pay anything, but they give you the right to have your say. You would be looking at "Callable Preferred Stock", non-voting shares which you can recall for a fixed price whenever you want (or as listed on the contract), and then tack on a non-transferable clause.

 

[Linux-SWAT]

Great news !

 

[Bosbeetle]

All I can say is succes, I have no clue about these things, but I think you handle it well.

 

[sirthunder516]

Great to hear everything's going well! I do have a question though...

I fixed 8 Pandoras this week, about 15 are left to be fixed.

One of those 23 Pandoras is mine. Are the repaired Pandoras going to be shipping with the new paint job? Just curious.

 

[vcoleiro1]

ED, quick question , you mention pre-orders will start again soon. I know no money is needed up front for these but was wanting to know how much these pre-ordered units will cost? ie is it the original price or the $500 US as per the premiums ?

 

[dreamer]

Are the repaired Pandoras going to be shipping with the new paint job? Just curious.

This doesn't make any sense.


The team had ordered enough cases for the first 2 batches and now out of the blue a hypothetical different case just drops from the sky and the ~5000 remaining cases are obsolete?

 

[BeefJerky]

Hope you get the investment you need, ED, and it all moves forward smoothly from here. While I think the history of the project will be of serious major concern to investors, especially if you're expecting them to take no active part in the running of the company, it would be absolutely great if this worked out and kicked off a whole new phase for the Pandora, one not plagued with problems. Finishing off not just batch 1 and batch 2 but seeing where things could go from there would be great and it would be lovely to get to a point where the past could be left behind and it's all about forward momentum. Let's hope that can happen.


Good luck with it all.

 

[EvilDragon]

ED, quick question , you mention pre-orders will start again soon. I know no money is needed up front for these but was wanting to know how much these pre-ordered units will cost? ie is it the original price or the $500 US as per the premiums ?

The current price will be 370 EUR, which is the Premium Price in EUR currently.


There's not much we can do. Production costs are higher in Germany, but also more reliable. The original price is FAR lower than the production costs...


We'll probably lose some potential customers here, but will be able to have a reliable production, which is worth far more.


When production is running stable, we might be able to lower the price, but this all depends on the part costs which depend on the USD / EUR conversion rate, etc.

 

[vcoleiro1]

ED, quick question , you mention pre-orders will start again soon. I know no money is needed up front for these but was wanting to know how much these pre-ordered units will cost? ie is it the original price or the $500 US as per the premiums ?

The current price will be 370 EUR, which is the Premium Price in EUR currently.


There's not much we can do. Production costs are higher in Germany, but also more reliable. The original price is FAR lower than the production costs...


We'll probably lose some potential customers here, but will be able to have a reliable production, which is worth far more.


When production is running stable, we might be able to lower the price, but this all depends on the part costs which depend on the USD / EUR conversion rate, etc.

Thanks ED, that sounds reasonable. Now I know what to budget for.

 

[Mr_Loon]

It's no stock. It's a share of my company, it's different from stocks.


Investors can't sell their share to others.


The investors can pull back their investment. WHEN is defined in the contract.


You can have long-time investors but it's also possible to make a contract with investors in which is defined that they get their share back after xx years.


This all depends on the contract which is currently being worked on by my lawyers.


I will also discuss this individually with the big investors, as I want to give them the best offer I can.

What would happen in the following scenario? :


ED has a company valued at €100.


He seeks an investor.


I invest €25.


We agree my investment will be for 5 years.


5 years later the company is valued at €500.


When I cash in my investment, what do I get back?


Who decides what the company is worth?


I'm reasonably clued up as to how an investment in a company works where the investors can sell their shares, but your proposed model is less familiar to me.


Edit : Answered Here

 

[fusion_power]

ED, quick question , you mention pre-orders will start again soon. I know no money is needed up front for these but was wanting to know how much these pre-ordered units will cost? ie is it the original price or the $500 US as per the premiums ?

The current price will be 370 EUR, which is the Premium Price in EUR currently.


There's not much we can do. Production costs are higher in Germany, but also more reliable. The original price is FAR lower than the production costs...


We'll probably lose some potential customers here, but will be able to have a reliable production, which is worth far more.


When production is running stable, we might be able to lower the price, but this all depends on the part costs which depend on the USD / EUR conversion rate, etc.

That brings me to the interesting question: how much Pandoras have to be sold to drop the price (for example) under 300€? Such price regions would bring a wider audience I'm sure.

 

[kyuu]

The current price will be 370 EUR, which is the Premium Price in EUR currently.


There's not much we can do. Production costs are higher in Germany, but also more reliable. The original price is FAR lower than the production costs...


We'll probably lose some potential customers here, but will be able to have a reliable production, which is worth far more.


When production is running stable, we might be able to lower the price, but this all depends on the part costs which depend on the USD / EUR conversion rate, etc.

Wow, 370 EUR is a lot. That's almost comparable to low price notebooks which still have much better hardware. Of course, it's not a notebook but a handheld console in an early stage, developed by a few enthusiasts and not a mainstream company like Sony, so the price is definitely reasonable.


You will lose potential customers here, that's for sure, but I believe if you can maintain a good quality and support, you will find new customers. Also, with a higher number of units sold the price will sink and you will get back the customers which you lost here. So quality and support is everything.

That brings me to the interesting question: how much Pandoras have to be sold to drop the price (for example) under 300€? Such price regions would bring a wider audience I'm sure.

Apart from the amount of sold Pandoras, there are probably other factors that can lower the price. IIRC the parts of the current model are outdated and could be replaced by more recent ones which ideally would be cheaper and more powerful.

 

[sirthunder516]

Are the repaired Pandoras going to be shipping with the new paint job? Just curious.

This doesn't make any sense.


The team had ordered enough cases for the first 2 batches and now out of the blue a hypothetical different case just drops from the sky and the ~5000 remaining cases are obsolete?

ED said that it's a possibility they'd possibly start using a different paint:

On a sidenote, we might use a different paint on the case as well. Granite black metallic.


You might remember the blue metallic one Fatih showed us. He's been using it for six months yet.


The paint looks better (still looks like it is brand new) and as the paint is a bit thicker, the display stays open in every position.

Sorry, I wasn't aware that they already had about 5000 cases when he said this a few days ago. I guess that makes sense...

 

[Neelix]

This doesn't make any sense.


The team had ordered enough cases for the first 2 batches and now out of the blue a hypothetical different case just drops from the sky and the ~5000 remaining cases are obsolete?

ED said that it's a possibility they'd possibly start using a different paint:


Sorry, I wasn't aware that they already had about 5000 cases when he said this a few days ago. I guess that makes sense...

Do we actually know how many of the remaining cases had already been painted?


If most of the existing cases are actually still unpainted to begin with, then changing the paint for future units doesn't seem like it would be an issue.


- Neelix

 

[dreamer]

Afaik the cases where delivered to craig already painted (ie. in the factory where they where made).


He never mentioned needing to paint them before assembling the pandoras.


So, that 'new paintjob' is just like the 'new processor' -> from the unforeseeable future

 

[MrChops]

@ed, is there room to haggle with the new production company? You mentioned getting a few quotes, were they all close in price? Are you going with the cheapest or did they at least match the lowest quote?

 

[Link]

I thought the order for cases was 10K with only 4k delivered, so with 2800 Pandoras produced, might mean there are ≈ 1000 painted with this black, with another 6000 either unpainted or yet to be produced.


My numbers could be all wrong, just going off memory here.


And maybe I missed the part about the boat with the remaining 6k.

 

[noobermin]

So I was planning to get a refund but I'll keep my preorder in for now. I'm sorry, I barely have money for my phone bill, much less to invest, all I can offer are useless words of encouragement.

 

[Nation.A.List]

Hi ED


Here's hoping you get the investors you need real soon so you can make the Pandora the successful device it deserves to be.


Will production of the TV-Out cables be possible if the new finance package is sorted out?