Bitcoins experience


^ yes Klapse , I was pretending to be an authority on the matter. I so absolutely was.


It is interesting though that bit coin revenue can be completely concealed including bit coin transactions via bit coins inherent encryption etc. it escapes the same level of scrutiny as on bank accounts and credit card transactions that the government can use to try to catch tax cheats.
 
So how is the government supposed to track when you don't use the bank or credit-card companies but rather just only accept cash?

They can't?! Like with Bitcoins?! Oh no, it's the same after all! What a shock...not really...
 
I think we're going about this the wrong way.  I suggest that we hire my nephew to find bitcoins in Minecraft.  He loves that game, and he'll do it for free...he won't clean up his room or do homework, but he'll virtually mine all day long...(WizardStan whispers into my ear)...What?!?!?  What the flock is an algorithm?  Hey, he's horrible at math too...
 
vcoleiro said:
Actually "at the moment" is correct , it is possible they may go upto $1000,000  or $1Billion per coin. That would make it large rather than small. So it is an "at the moment" proposition.
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Just trust me on this, it is physically impossible for the value of a bitcoin to exceed $164'000. That is a lot of money I grant, but to reach that number over half the planet would need to be using bitcoins exclusively: they are paid in bitcoins, they make their purchases in bitcoins, at no point in time are bitcoins ever bought or sold for domestic currency. Technically at that value they wouldn't even get paid in bitcoins, they'd get paid in fractions of bitcoins, but that's besides the point.If half the planet is using bitcoins exclusively without touching domestic currencies then we have far bigger problems then how the government is expected to tax them. Or maybe the other half just switches to bitcoins and the problem sorts itself out with a global unified economy (shyeah, right)

vcoleiro said:
It is interesting though that bit coin revenue can be completely concealed including bit coin transactions via bit coins inherent encryption etc. it escapes the same level of scrutiny as on bank accounts and credit card transactions that the government can use to try to catch tax cheats.
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As mentioned, people have been doing that for centuries with pure cash transactions. If you get paid in cash, keep all your money in your mattress, only pay with cash, the government has no way of knowing exactly how much you actually make and spend every year, but if you don't file your income tax yearly in a satisfactory way then they will question it and they will come to you to find out how you've been surviving.Similarly, if you are paid entirely (or even largely) in bitcoins and you don't claim them on your income tax, the system WILL flag you as suspicious, you WILL be audited, the IRS WILL figure out exactly how much the bitcoins you were paid were worth at the time of payment, you WILL be expected to pay taxes on that income, and you WILL get fined for attempted tax evasion. You're still looking for problems that have been solved for a long time.
 
Yes I agree people can do that with cash , thats true - but most people though keep there cash in bank accounts which come under scrutiny. Using bitcoins would be like moving to a cash only based society where no scrutiny exists at all. Time will tell on how honest people are in reporting bitcoins. I guess I see it like this , people are generally honest, but for some reason when it comes to pure digital things, that seems to fly out the door with some people.  Like with watching digital copyrighted material or using Roms for eg.  I don't know why people who are normally honest do that when in comes to digital items. Time will tell if it becomes an issue , but if I was betting man I'd say more people will be less honest with bitcoins.  Heres', a good bloomberg article I read on this topic: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-05/bitcoin-really-is-an-existential-threat-to-the-modern-liberal-state.html

As for Tax, yep, although there does seem to be various rubbish stories saying various things on the net, I concede that what I probably read seems to be one of the incorrect stories about when tax would be taken.  It does seem now after reading a few more articles that the wider concensus is you would pay it more or less as per normal, if you declare your profits that is.

It's hard to say how high bitcoins will go as they are caught in a speculative bubble . Everyone I've heard talk about it, mentions how they are trading it to make money rather than use it - ie seems a large percentage of bitcoin holders are speculative investors behind this bubble . As a speculative bubble their price has left any foundation of reason a long time ago.  Even on low volumes of trade with few people participating, the price technically is able to hit astronomical heights (so it doesn't need half the planet) - So yes it is very physically possible and has happened with many other bubbles.  One could liken it to the Tulip bubble where in the 1600's the price of 40 tulip bulbs reached $28Million in todays money.  People literally had flower beds in holland worth more than the GDP of large countries. 
 
 
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^ Ouch, it was $250 10 hours ago, now just $145.  

I'm guessing that's the result of a DDOS attack though, I have heard recently that they were under attack.  

Don't know , maybe it's just a massive amount of people cashing in profits .  

Scary shit though for sure - Hopefully no one gets burnt, as I've said, I'd hate to see that happen to anyone.
 
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ekianjo said:
may be a good time to buy some. or not :)
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i'd go with not 

1365632365671.jpg
 
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ekianjo said:
We'll see. 

Gotwake said:
ekianjo said:
Gotwake said:
ekianjo said:
may be a good time to buy some. or not :)
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i'd go with not 
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Looks like its bouncing back,
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right which would be why I used a green circle on the chart  ;)
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We'll see. If it was all so predictable, finance would be easy. 
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Tis, If i didn't put my money into blackberry stock at the time I would have invested in bitcoins, although probably would have sold before the first crash 
 
vcoleiro said:
Yes I agree people can do that with cash , thats true - but most people though keep there cash in bank accounts which come under scrutiny.
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I think you're overestimating how much scrutiny is applied to bank accounts. There are plenty of countries with bank secrecy (e.g. Switzerland), and if you want to avoid taxes, you can always just officially move to a tax haven. Bitcoins or cash-under-mattress are insignificant phenomena compared to bank secrecy and tax havens.
 
_wb_ said:
vcoleiro said:
Yes I agree people can do that with cash , thats true - but most people though keep there cash in bank accounts which come under scrutiny.
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I think you're overestimating how much scrutiny is applied to bank accounts. There are plenty of countries with bank secrecy (e.g. Switzerland), and if you want to avoid taxes, you can always just officially move to a tax haven. Bitcoins or cash-under-mattress are insignificant phenomena compared to bank secrecy and tax havens.
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Nope , not overestimating it all, just saying that there is a level of scrutiny with bank accounts used by a large portion of the population which provides a deterrent that doesn't exist with bitcoins.

 I should know, the government nabbed me about 10 years back when I recorded on my tax return an interest  amount which was like about $100 less than it actually was. It was an honest typo on my behalf.  The government ran an automated check on my account when they were doing my tax return, automatically detected  the interest amount was $100 more, sent me a letter notifying me of the discrepancy and a nice $300 fine.
 
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If you know about bitcoins then you know about countries where there are better places to put your money in (i don't refer them as tax havens, rather the countries we live in are Tax hells unless you believe that stealing more than 40% of the fruit of your work is normal and reasonable), so it's not like bitcoin created a new market for that. 

On top of that you don't have to keep your money in your bank account, nothing prevents you from getting the cash out and doing whatever you want with it without any scrutiny. Which is a good thing if you consider freedom to do what you want with you money as a good thing. Of course, for people who tend to want to control everything, they hate cash and you see some countries pushing for cash-less transactions. Well good luck with that. 
 
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^ I don't think you understand what I'm saying. There are deterrents and partial policing if you like in the current environment.  Does that mean you can't get around it , No, you can as you mentioned.  But there is that level of deterrent.  With bitcoins , your effectively moving into a society of no deterrent.  Do you expect there to be the same level of tax dodging between an environment with some deterrent and one with none - of course not.

An analogy would be  police, some would say we don't need them.  Some would say they don't stop crime , people still cause crime and know how to avoid police anyway - and they would be right.

Thing is, police do deter crime.  Your argument is like saying there would be the same level of crime in a policed country as there would be in an un-policed one . 
 
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Looks like the bitcoin rate has recovered a little bit, its now $180.  Good news for those that bought near the top
 
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