And now for something completely different (Keyboard Option)


I think your idea makes things much more intuitive for writing and coding. Numbers and symbols are always "meta'd", so that it will become muscle memory to create those with a Fn key press.

I'm still arguing against its beastliness, however. It cleans up very nicely if you try to avoid 4 prints on any key. My take (updated a bit), includes all the standard US keyboard keys (besides the number keys, which are meta'd):

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/7b0cdfabfa6a79c6b5161be83ab19c0c

I also managed to get a euro symbol in there, too :) .
 
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Saber said:
Grench said:
Another idea...

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/889203bbda950c57be5d68b62ea0b26b
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, it's what's done with the number row that kills this type of layout. I like how you have the letters but the loss here is too great for some. If we had all the numbers on the bottom row with a centered spacebar, maybe save it for the P3? Who knows. 
Click to expand...
I suspect that if people gave it serious thought they might grow to like it.  By making it so that numbers and Fn numbers can both be 'locked' to the front at the same time, it opens up many of the gaming controls that are otherwise masked.  In Fn mode, mathematical functions also come 'top line' or at least 'shifted top line'.

Note that DosBox should like this layout.  * is Fn+shift+8, which DosBox should see as shift+8.

Alt+F4 becomes easier to find, but requires shoulder buttons.  I'm considering doing some minor rearranging to cluster the modifier keys and make them chordable.  I should do that so that Alt+F4 is chording Fn+alt with left thumb or shoulders.

IF we had a centered space bar (my wish - unlikely to come true) then there is a lot more that could be opened up with chording modifiers (some of my earlier layouts).  It appears, sadly, that the bottom right space bar is a done thing now though.
 
Refinement - added a few keys present on a 'real keyboard'.

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/044c50106e552ce71e4c6d097d3e5412

Additional refinement - ctrl to bottom left.
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/0fcd2e9fb211a0a8905e74637508827c

Fixed some old mapping hiding behind the new mapping:
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/9f2a8a43865dd6e20b675ae69a52b983

Color reduction.  Got rid of blue and green to lower printing costs.

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/20b071525e2343dcc4728577f0e24c83
 
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I dont think you grow to like something. Or actually, you do if its good enough. But taking that risk is a little bit beyond us.

And also i think more importantly for the great majority its irrelevant, because if you shun something right away, its not going to grow on you.
 
I imagine this is what regular writing looks like to people who are dyslectic. There is too much visual information.

¢, locks, Œ ?

Its not possible to fit "  7 &  ▀  ▶  ▮▮ " on a single button without making it super tiny.
 
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comradekingu said:
I imagine this is what regular writing looks like to people who are dyslectic. There is too much visual information.

¢, locks, Œ ?

Its not possible to fit "  7 &  ▀  ▶  ▮▮ " on a single button without making it super tiny.
Click to expand...
You keep claiming it's too confusing to have actual labels on the device. Yes, they'll be small. Confusing? Impossible? Not in the slightest.

Confusing is having a bunch of buttons without proper labels to match their function.

I own one of these WP-34s calculators:

http://commerce.hpcalc.org/images/34s-angle-medium.jpg

Now THAT is confusing - at least until you understand the method behind the madness. Then it's awesome. Best RPN calculator ever made - so far. The WP-43s is in the works...
 
Actual labels on a device isnt what im against. What i find confusing are things that make a layout look more like that calculator as opposed to less.

I said it was impossible _without_ making it super tiny. Not impossible in a technical sense. Now smaller is a problem, a very reasonable concern, stated by ED:

"What I don't want is hundreds of keyboard labels on one keyboard that 99% of the users won't understand.

It easily scares away new, interested customers."

Do you ask new people if they understand it?

Edit: Asside from labels, does it matter where things are?
 
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I'm still wondering what the purpose of SysRq is on this keyboard. It can't behave the same as it does on a desktop, that'd make the key useless.
 
WizardStan said:
I'm still wondering what the purpose of SysRq is on this keyboard. It can't behave the same as it does on a desktop, that'd make the key useless.
Click to expand...
SysRq was less of a concern for me to keep than the Print Screen button which I can find some good use for. 


At work I still use some old dumb terminal applications that use a 3270 terminal emulator, I'm sure I'm one rare exception of actually using the SysRq and Scroll Lock keys in this day and age. 
 
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TrashyMG said:
WizardStan said:
I'm still wondering what the purpose of SysRq is on this keyboard. It can't behave the same as it does on a desktop, that'd make the key useless.
Click to expand...
SysRq was less of a concern for me to keep than the Print Screen button which I can find some good use for. 
Click to expand...
SysRq was requested by a couple of people. Whether it finds itself on the final layout or not, and whether it has any impact on the system at a low level as thought, is to be determined. It's easily removable or addable. 

Assigning Print Screen to AltGr + l should be simple enough if AltGr + Shift + 1 isn't.
 
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Saber said:
SysRq was requested by a couple of people
Click to expand...
The problem is that SysRq is a non-key. It's an interrupt. It doesn't actually produce a keycode. The entire purpose behind the SysRq is that it cannot be captured by software. Putting it on the Pyra in order to have this functionality wastes a key, and especially can't be used as "start".Or was the actual request for something that was SysRq-like? Not literally SysRq but something that could behave like it? If that's the case then the Pandora's menu button fits that bill, if the software had been handled better: it generates a keycode that can be captured but it also sits on a GPIO that can trigger an interrupt, and of course it's tied to the PMIC to allow you to do a hard reset.

I'm willing to bet that EvilDragon and Nikolaus have already carried over that same functionality, meaning that the decision is already made. If it's the same convention as the Pandora then the bottom of those three is the "SysRq" button by technical design.
 
AltGr+l is ĸ here   AltGr+shift+1  is ¹  "should be simple" is a very bad way of saying "i havent tested this"

AltGr _shouldnt_ be a key that does something different than how AltGr does it. Because that is what makes it AltGr.

Edit: I like the printScreen button, and use it quite often. The people i have shown it to finds it useful. I would miss it if it wasnt there.

With an application that produces screenshots automatically, like a lot of desktop environments have out of the box, its quite self-explanatory too.

Never used sysRq.
 
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