And now for something completely different (Keyboard Option)

[Grench]

And now with more modifier keys...

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/a7fd2d77b621c25c3c4f7f9931988afc

The idea being that you can use your thumb on one half of the keyboard to make all of the mods for the keystroke with the other thumb on it's respective half.

Space/tab button moved near center for either thumb's use.

Did this as a rush job - probably not perfect.

Not visually 'pretty' BUT should be REAL fast once you get used to it.

Could easily move the extra set of modifier keys off of the shoulder buttons - left on here for the moment.  Maybe Left Joy 1 & 2 and right Joy 1 & 2?  Or Mouse 1, Mouse 2 and Joy 1 and Joy 2?  Thinking of these since they should make emulators happier?  Or not?

 

[Djhg2000]

The outer Pyra buttons seem highly redundant, can't we just have the center one and lock it on shift press or something?

 

[Granitehead]

I'm not planning on contributing to the discussion here, but: Those buttons in the upper middle of the keyboard aren't easy to reach, that's an absolute no go for a modifier key. And when I say not easy, I mean impossible, I can't reach those buttons on the Pandora without changing my grip on the device.

 

[Grench]

Refining that idea a bit.

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/bfdcc505a5c17010abde7f54163b6104

The idea with this layout is that with 2 thumbs one or the other can select the 'shift' and the other selects the relevant key. Since each thumb has it's own shift, ctrl, alt AND Pyra key, there are no conflicts.

All modifier keys are moved OFF of the shoulder buttons - they aren't needed there anymore in this layout.

Typing with this should be VERY fast once you get used to it.

I'm still not decided on the numeric pad - should it be this way (computer style) or flipped to phone style - which matches the Fn button layout too.

Feedback welcome.

 

[Granitehead]

That way it's probably easy to enter Pyra and Shift at the same time, so you would get a whole additional layer for Russian or whatever. Or Pyra+Shift+Vovel for the German Umlaut and Pyra+Shift+S for ß.

Don't know whether it's already meant to work like that.

 

[Saber]

Refining that idea a bit.

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/bfdcc505a5c17010abde7f54163b6104


The idea with this layout is that with 2 thumbs one or the other can select the 'shift' and the other selects the relevant key. Since each thumb has it's own shift, ctrl, alt AND Pyra key, there are no conflicts.


All modifier keys are moved OFF of the shoulder buttons - they aren't needed there anymore in this layout.


Typing with this should be VERY fast once you get used to it.


I'm still not decided on the numeric pad - should it be this way (computer style) or flipped to phone style - which matches the Fn button layout too.


Feedback welcome.

I think a single sized Spacebar if put in the center will be ill-received, and will slow the typing pace considerably. L1 and R1 shouldn't deviate from Right Shift and Right Control. What is "Mouse 4" meaning?  

 

[klapse]

Refining that idea a bit.

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/bfdcc505a5c17010abde7f54163b6104

Very creative. I like having the modifiers on the bottom. Would prefer double wide space, and I don't need modifiers on both sides of the KBD. And I would prefer TAB on the left side.

Also I don't see "Esc" anywhere?

 

[_wb_]

It feels like a waste to have 8 dedicated keys in the main section just for modifiers. I still think that shoulder buttons are the most efficient way to use modifiers.

Here is a variant of the layout that maximizes the number of useful dedicated keys:

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/2bd17f9b29d7aead73a7c528b65cf177

Disadvantages compared to my main proposal (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/08c4e25159994e9ec8ea54fc0d9acfc0):

• No dedicated number keys
• Many symbols are not in standard/expected locations: since there is no number row, there is also no !@#$%^&*()
• No easy P+1, L+2 remapping
• Pyra+vowels is taken, so you can't map it to Ü Ö Ä or whatever you need

Advantages:

• Dedicated primary keys for basic arithmetic (useful for coding): + - * / ^ = ( )
• Dedicated " key -- useful for coding and also for language input (quotes)
• The important diacritics are easy to enter using the convention Pyra+symbol = dead diacritic. There are primary keys for acute ('), grave (`), umlaut ("), circumflex (^), ring (*), macron (-), double acute (=), breve ( ( ) and stroke (/).
• Fake double space bar: it's two keys, both are space by default, but power users can map one of them to something special (e.g. non-breaking space or whatever).

Probably more efficient in the long run, but a steeper learning curve.

 

[_wb_]

That way it's probably easy to enter Pyra and Shift at the same time, so you would get a whole additional layer for Russian or whatever. Or Pyra+Shift+Vovel for the German Umlaut and Pyra+Shift+S for ß.


Don't know whether it's already meant to work like that.

That's not really possible, Pyra+Shift+S should be Shift-F6.

 

[Granitehead]

That way it's probably easy to enter Pyra and Shift at the same time, so you would get a whole additional layer for Russian or whatever. Or Pyra+Shift+Vovel for the German Umlaut and Pyra+Shift+S for ß.

Don't know whether it's already meant to work like that.

 That's not really possible, Pyra+Shift+S should be Shift-F6.

Damn, you are right. If it weren't for those F keys, though, it would work. So the rest of the keyboard is still available for that combo.

 

[Grench]

Refining that idea a bit.

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/bfdcc505a5c17010abde7f54163b6104


The idea with this layout is that with 2 thumbs one or the other can select the 'shift' and the other selects the relevant key. Since each thumb has it's own shift, ctrl, alt AND Pyra key, there are no conflicts.


All modifier keys are moved OFF of the shoulder buttons - they aren't needed there anymore in this layout.


Typing with this should be VERY fast once you get used to it.


I'm still not decided on the numeric pad - should it be this way (computer style) or flipped to phone style - which matches the Fn button layout too.


Feedback welcome.

I think a single sized Spacebar if put in the center will be ill-received, and will slow the typing pace considerably. L1 and R1 shouldn't deviate from Right Shift and Right Control. What is "Mouse 4" meaning?  

Actually, the center mounted single-button space bar should speed typing up.  It's accessible via either thumb.  So, when typing L<space> you can hit it with your left thumb - when typing S<space> you can hit it with your right.

Linux maps mouse buttons from 1-6(+?).  So, if you have an advanced mouse with more than 2 buttons, it will show up in Debian (and presumably derivatives) as having something like:

Mouse 1 (left click)

Mouse 2 (right click)

Mouse 3 (scroll wheel button click - center mouse)

Mouse 4 (first button on left)

Mouse 5 (second button on left)

Mouse 6 (scroll wheel tilt right)

Mouse 7 (scroll wheel tilt left)

Mouse 8 (scroll wheel forward)

Mouse 9 (scroll wheel backward)

etc...

Well, those mouse button names are generally game mapping friendly - at least they are in all of the FPS games I've played on Steam.  Since I removed the necessity of having shift-keys on the shoulder buttons, it freed up the idea of mapping the mouse buttons to them properly.

Stop and think about application and it makes sense.  If you have the Pyra in your hands, then you're 'mobile' and using the mouse buttons on the back should be comfortable.  If you're at a desktop/dock type setup, you'll likely have a mouse plugged into the dock and the buttons on the back won't be as needed.

This layout keeps the game & navigation controls (Mouse/joysticks and game pad - which the shoulder buttons are part of) separate from keyboard modifiers while preserving the speed that the shoulder buttons would have conveyed (left/right thumb 2-button chording).

 

[Grench]

Refining that idea a bit.

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/bfdcc505a5c17010abde7f54163b6104

Very creative. I like having the modifiers on the bottom. Would prefer double wide space, and I don't need modifiers on both sides of the KBD. And I would prefer TAB on the left side.

Also I don't see "Esc" anywhere?

Modifiers on both sides is intentional to allow limited 'chording'.  The idea is that if you want to type a capital L, you would use the left shift and L.  If you want a capital S, use the right shift and S.  If you want to type in numbers, hold the left Pyra and type them in with your right thumb.  If you want to use the Fn keypad, hold in the right Pyra button and then use the left thumb.  

The space bar is in the center where either thumb can get to it.  Tab is shift-space.  Again, with the chording principle, it's faster that way on average than it would be having it clear over on the outer edge where only one thumb can hit it.

The Esc key is up and left in the system control set - much like it is up and left off of the general key set on a normal keyboard.  It's a bit of a meta-action key and belongs with meta-action keys.

 

[klapse]

Theres a good point: That you want modifiers on both sides so your alternate thumb can hit the desired key. I guess that also speaks for modifiers on the shoulder buttons, but it will take some practice to get used-to shoulder button modifiers.

 

[Grench]

I'm considering moving the modifier keys around a bit in their 'nest' to allow easier multi-key chording with the thumb.

So this:

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/2998ab0c64ee77979e0d1257d80af241

Notice if you want to hit shift-F3, hold the right thumb over the Pyra key AND the shift key then press E/F3.

This placement allows Pyra-modifier-key combinations of all sorts.

Also notice, I am now including a traditional AltGr right-alt key in the mix which becomes possible with this layout.  Now many international characters should be available using traditional means.

Notice the _Lock_ notices on shift and Pyra.  

By pressing BOTH shift keys simultaneously, Caps lock is initiated.  Repeat to release.

By pressing BOTH Pyra keys simultaneously, Pyra (Fn) lock is initiated.  Repeat to release.

Got a game that requires a numeric pad for selecting weapons and Fn keys for communications?  (Nearly any DOS FPS).  Just engage the Pyra lock to lock in both of those keypads for the duration.  WASD access for those games shouldn't be needed since the equivalent is in the game pads and nubs.

I think I may be onto something with this layout - those duplicated function/shift/alt/ctrl keys aren't a waste of space - they're becoming VERY useful.

 

[Grench]

That way it's probably easy to enter Pyra and Shift at the same time, so you would get a whole additional layer for Russian or whatever. Or Pyra+Shift+Vovel for the German Umlaut and Pyra+Shift+S for ß.


Don't know whether it's already meant to work like that.

 
That's not really possible, Pyra+Shift+S should be Shift-F6.

Damn, you are right. If it weren't for those F keys, though, it would work. So the rest of the keyboard is still available for that combo.

With the exception of the Fn keys who's regular, alt, ctrl and shift functions are essentially pre-mapped to software, the rest of the keyboard should be available to:

Alt-key maps

Ctrl-key maps (note - could cause havoc and override OS ctrl-key maps)

Pyra-Alt-key maps

Pyra-Ctrl-key maps

Pyra-Shift-key maps

Pyra-Shift-Ctrl-key maps

Pyra-Alt-Ctrl-key maps

Using chording on the function/shift keys area, i.e. mashing your thumb to cover more than one key, any of the following should work from either side of the keyboard.  I'm not sure how many keys the keyboard will be able to recognize at once - Pandora it was 3 or 4 wasn't it?

Regular unshifted

Shift

Pyra

Pyra Shift

Pyra Alt

Pyra Ctrl

Shift Ctrl

Pyra Shift Ctrl

Alt Pyra Ctrl

Alt Pyra Ctrl Shift may be possible but you'll need raccoon levels of dexterity.  For this one you might want to shift-lock then hit Alt Pyra Ctrl.

So - there are piles of piles of un-mapped and relatively easy to type combinations to map to whatever anyone's heart desires.

It's tempting to put a Pyra-shift mapping printed on the keys - but that would get way noisy, and if this keyboard has a primary fault it's the noise it already has.

The more I play with the idea the more I like the 2 sets of modifier keys on the keyboard.  It's fast, immediately clear what you're doing, has lots of options, and should be absolutely awesome when it comes to games that need both the Fn keys and the numbers accessible.

Now I'm considering putting locks on the ALT-ALT combination to make Alt-lock and CTRL-CTRL combination to make CTRL-lock.  Not sure if there is any reason not to.  It -could- get confusing what state the keyboard is in - may need to have a mood ring mult-color LED just showing the keyboard mode - as seen in the list above there are a pile of different modes in this example - all of them really.

 

[Granitehead]

That way it's probably easy to enter Pyra and Shift at the same time, so you would get a whole additional layer for Russian or whatever. Or Pyra+Shift+Vovel for the German Umlaut and Pyra+Shift+S for ß.

Don't know whether it's already meant to work like that.

 That's not really possible, Pyra+Shift+S should be Shift-F6.

Damn, you are right. If it weren't for those F keys, though, it would work. So the rest of the keyboard is still available for that combo.

 With the exception of the Fn keys who's regular, alt, ctrl and shift functions are essentially pre-mapped to software, the rest of the keyboard should be available to:

Alt-key maps

Ctrl-key maps (note - could cause havoc and override OS ctrl-key maps)

Pyra-Alt-key maps

Pyra-Ctrl-key maps

Pyra-Shift-key maps

Pyra-Shift-Ctrl-key maps

Pyra-Alt-Ctrl-key maps

Using chording on the function/shift keys area, i.e. mashing your thumb to cover more than one key, any of the following should work from either side of the keyboard.  I'm not sure how many keys the keyboard will be able to recognize at once - Pandora it was 3 or 4 wasn't it?

Alt and Ctrl plus letter should just be sent to the os unmodified, there is stuff which uses it.Fxx+shift and Fxx+control and Fxx+Ctrl+Alt I've encountered, so Pyra-Shift and Pyra-Ctrl and Pyra-Ctrl-Alt are only partly useable, but those aren't very frequent.

That just leaves just Pyra-Alt and Pyra-Shift-Ctrl which should be safe as far as I know.

But I see that in your newest version you have AltGr. That reminds me: In Inkscape, there is AltGr+3.

So Pyra-AltGr isn't completely safe either.

I don't know any combinations of something you get with the Pyra key in your proposals with Shift and Ctrl. Anyone knows something? If not, then this is the last completely unobstructed combination left.

 

[Grench]

My apologies to the color blind.  You'll be able to tell if the light is on and whether it is flashing, so you'll at least know some keyboard modifier is switched on.  By using the 4 in order as shown, you'll have a good idea of which one it is too.

No modifiers.  No lights.  Lowercase letters & unshifted symbols.

Shift - dark blue light.  Uppercase letters & shifted symbols.

Shift-lock (press both Shift keys) - flashing dark blue light.

Pyra - dark orange light.  Fn keys, numbers & orange printed symbols.

Pyra-lock (press both Pyra keys) - flashing dark orange light.

Alt - dark red light.

Alt-lock (press both Alt keys) - flashing dark red light.

Ctrl - dark green light.

Ctrl-lock (press both Ctrl keys) - flashing dark green light.

Now it gets fun.

Shift-lock + Pyra Lock = switching dark blue & orange and two 'blank' flashes

Shift-lock + Alt-lock = switching dark blue & blank & dark red and blank flashes

...

Shift-lock + Pyra-lock + Alt-lock + Ctrl-lock  = switching dark blue & orange & dark red & dark green flashes

So - can we get -one- of the color status LEDs to use for keyboard status?

So, they keyboard becomes:

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/43b2ec3514ef70055ba85198121e593a

 

[Saber]

My apologies to the color blind.  You'll be able to tell if the light is on and whether it is flashing, so you'll at least know some keyboard modifier is switched on.  By using the 4 in order as shown, you'll have a good idea of which one it is too.

No modifiers.  No lights.  Lowercase letters & unshifted symbols.

Shift - dark blue light.  Uppercase letters & shifted symbols.

Shift-lock (press both Shift keys) - flashing dark blue light.

Pyra - dark orange light.  Fn keys, numbers & orange printed symbols.

Pyra-lock (press both Pyra keys) - flashing dark orange light.

Alt - dark red light.

Alt-lock (press both Alt keys) - flashing dark red light.

Ctrl - dark green light.

Ctrl-lock (press both Ctrl keys) - flashing dark green light.

Now it gets fun.

Shift-lock + Pyra Lock = switching dark blue & orange and two 'blank' flashes

Shift-lock + Alt-lock = switching dark blue & blank & dark red and blank flashes

...

Shift-lock + Pyra-lock + Alt-lock + Ctrl-lock  = switching dark blue & orange & dark red & dark green flashes

So - can we get -one- of the color status LEDs to use for keyboard status?

So, they keyboard becomes:

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/43b2ec3514ef70055ba85198121e593a

We need a dash of yellow on there, stat. 

 

[Grench]

My apologies to the color blind.  You'll be able to tell if the light is on and whether it is flashing, so you'll at least know some keyboard modifier is switched on.  By using the 4 in order as shown, you'll have a good idea of which one it is too.

No modifiers.  No lights.  Lowercase letters & unshifted symbols.

Shift - dark blue light.  Uppercase letters & shifted symbols.

Shift-lock (press both Shift keys) - flashing dark blue light.

Pyra - dark orange light.  Fn keys, numbers & orange printed symbols.

Pyra-lock (press both Pyra keys) - flashing dark orange light.

Alt - dark red light.

Alt-lock (press both Alt keys) - flashing dark red light.

Ctrl - dark green light.

Ctrl-lock (press both Ctrl keys) - flashing dark green light.

Now it gets fun.

Shift-lock + Pyra Lock = switching dark blue & orange and two 'blank' flashes

Shift-lock + Alt-lock = switching dark blue & blank & dark red and blank flashes

...

Shift-lock + Pyra-lock + Alt-lock + Ctrl-lock  = switching dark blue & orange & dark red & dark green flashes

So - can we get -one- of the color status LEDs to use for keyboard status?

So, they keyboard becomes:

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/43b2ec3514ef70055ba85198121e593a

We need a dash of yellow on there, stat. 

Yeah - I'd debated between red and yellow for Alt and even considered pink - though a pink alt key might be subject to misinterpretation as having other agendas.

I'm open to suggestions on what color Alt or Ctrl or even Shift should be - though I'd like to keep shift something nearer to blue for some unexplained reason - it just feels right.

Beyond color preferences - is there anything that makes this non-viable?

It strikes me as the perfect keyboard for a game device - switches rapidly between locked modes, has a mode with all numbers and Fn keys displayed together, etc...

 

[Grench]

I just thought of another interesting capability with the 'locks' on shift, pyra, alt and ctrl.  Much like a pushing shift on a shift(caps)-locked keyboard unshifts, pushing Pyra on a Pyra-locked keyboard would Un-Pyra while pressed.  So - if you're in Pyra mode going away on numbers and need to do letters - press an hold the Pyra key and the 'normal' keys are available again.

So - Algebraic notation is EASY on this layout as would be programming notation, etc...

Gaming examples:

WoW - no idea if the Pyra will be able to play WoW, but the keyboard will.

-Motion is taken care of by the game pads.

-Wow uses the number keys as several banks of actions.  Unshifted, alt and ctrl versions of the number keys each act as a bank of actions.  

-Letter keys are used while standing still for chat.  Fn keys are used for additional features.

-When going into combat, push both Pyra keys to throw the keyboard into numeric/fn mode.  Bank 1 of numeric actions ready.

-Changing spell sets or moment need - either one or both ctrl keys throws the keyboard into Pyra-Ctrl locked or Pyra locked + ctrl modified keys.  Ctrl+1-0 are ready.  Same with Alt.

So - it should work with any MMRPG game using a WoW type layout.  Whether the Pyra is capable of running the game is another question - but the keyboard should be good.

Another type of game - DOOM3, Quake, HalfLife, FPS variety.

WASD isn't needed for navigation - you have two joysticks and a full game pad for movement and mouse control.  The main things you need from the keyboard are weapon selection and communications.

Weapon selection is generally handled 1-0.  Pyra locked keyboard is ideal.

Communications are generally F1-F12.  Pyra locked keyboard is ideal.

Looking at use-cases, I'm getting more enthused about this design.