And now for something completely different (Keyboard Option)


So I thought I'd do something new and different since we're all just brainstorming anyway.

I stole _wb_'s current keyboard matrix since it has the nice proportional keys and completely blanked it out.  Since that may be useful for someone else to generate from, I include it here.  Real credit is to _wb_ for this, so if he requests it, I'll edit/remove it from here.

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/3387d6815491b319aa544aa24bc0f0da

So I had some ideas rolling around in my head and one of them is rather novel.  It makes P+1 and L+2 possible, should work outstanding for gaming (numbers and F1-F12 can be locked forward at the same time), is DosBox compliant and I can already predict that several of you will hate it.

However, if we were to take a step back and make the statement:  "This is an International gaming device.  It makes no apologies for multilingual support."  We could have something like this:

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/a0ee7c5c3145fa3dd92ecf2bdb5eaaac

Note:  This one IS English, German, French, Spanish oriented.  It intentionally maps the common German and French letters ON TOP instead of relegating them to the Fn layer.  The German ones are even 'in the right place', so CK should be jumping with joy on this one, but I'll be he'll find something to dislike.

Yes, the Backspace and Enter button placement is a bit odd.  It's the only way to 'make it work' in this scenario.  I left off the 'Explanatory Wall of Text'.  Ran out of time.

Enjoy - or not.
 
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Here is a modified version of the above proposal of Grench, where the language-specific labels have been dropped, and the punctuation keys are slightly rearranged to make dash/minus a primary key:

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/989c68f57fcf9c8e62e002d158b56357

This way it does not commit specifically to German, French, Spanish, while still keeping those options open of course. Not labeled is harder to remember, but less "clutter".

P+1 could be a second backspace in an English layout, since you don't need the Ü or Å or whatever.
 
It's a nice idea to reserve some keys more for multilingual bindings. But I think it would be helpful to accompany all full layouts with their 'skeleton' where only the US-QWERTY labels are shown. To me it makes it both easier to see the idea behind the layout and to evaluate how it would work for English only text and coding.


edit: the version by _wb_ effectively fulfills my request. Thanks. I'm also in favor of keeping it that way and not printing labels for international bindings, but that is a separate decision. Is there a reason why ;' instead of ,. is right of M?


edit2: How about moving Backspace and or Tab to the action key area to free one or two additonal keys for international symbols. What does ≡ do?
 
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Here is one that puts backspace at the East action button, which is actually a pretty good spot for a backspace key. Home and End are the new action buttons in this arrangement, and you get a dedicated Del key but not a dedicated Ins key (which makes sense because Del is probably used much more frequently).

I labeled the P+1, L+2 keys in a way that is inspired by the Swiss keyboard layout and which would work fine for German, French and Scandinavian languages.

The M+3 keys are completely standard US-QWERTY.

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/961b8681640081a1c23586a3d3ed07fe

Actually I never thought I would like a layout without a dedicated number row, but this one I could live with. All punctuation symbols are on completely standard primary/shifted keys.

One potential problem though: people who don't use the shoulder buttons will have a hard time with the Shift+Meta symbols on the left: !@#$%. It can be done though, if Shift+Meta is a sticky Shift+Meta.
 
You're supposed to map it to either ÜÖÄ, or ÈÉÀ, or Å+2, depending on your language.

Alternatively, you could map it like the Swiss and have üöä at the primary layer, and èéà on the Shift layer (or vice versa.
 
_wb_ said:
Here is one that puts backspace at the East action button, which is actually a pretty good spot for a backspace key. Home and End are the new action buttons in this arrangement, and you get a dedicated Del key but not a dedicated Ins key (which makes sense because Del is probably used much more frequently).

I labeled the P+1, L+2 keys in a way that is inspired by the Swiss keyboard layout and which would work fine for German, French and Scandinavian languages.

The M+3 keys are completely standard US-QWERTY.

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/961b8681640081a1c23586a3d3ed07fe

Actually I never thought I would like a layout without a dedicated number row, but this one I could live with. All punctuation symbols are on completely standard primary/shifted keys.

One potential problem though: people who don't use the shoulder buttons will have a hard time with the Shift+Meta symbols on the left: !@#$%. It can be done though, if Shift+Meta is a sticky Shift+Meta.
Click to expand...
Interesting - I like it with exception of the game pad buttons. The 4 button set needs to be like on the Pandora:

Home: To the left of page.

End: To the right of page.

PageUp: To the top of page.

PageDn: To the bottom of page.

Frankly, THAT set should NOT be broken. Particularly by inputting Delete and Backspace into it. Insert and Delete work on the two additional buttons, but we have to find somewhere else to put Backspace.

Hmm...

So, working off of the _wb_ modification...

I'm assuming FnMetaGeorge+Enter = Compose. Why? It's a _wb_ layout. :)

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/abebd95f694a05ea9950cb7333819962

Important changes:

Insert and Delete are returned to where they make better sense - 4 button game button is again PgUp, PgDn, Home, End.

Backspace has been migrated to the rafters. Not sure I like it there either - but frankly its much better than having it in the game pad keys.

PrtSc is top layer again. Alt+PrtSc is a common action and shouldn't require a Vulcan death grip to do.

Pause is top layer again. Ctrl+Pause/Break is a common action and shouldn't require a Vulcan death grip to do.

Esc is on the Fn layer. It won't get hit by accident, but is easy to hit with Fn+ key.

Alternatively, I'm still thinking that Backspace = anti-space = Fn+space is an interesting concept.

This solves a serious problem with this series of layouts, BUT it has a rather interesting drawback to overcome. I think we could get used to it.

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/40a26e58b7443876b0cfbaa172099d55

Before anyone gets upset with this idea, give some consideration to the gains.

Insert and Delete are sometimes used with modifiers Ctrl+Insert, Shift+Insert are real things.

I'm unaware of ANY use cases when Backspace is used with a modifier.

Backspace on Fn+Space makes as much or more sense than having Tab on space (Pandora).

Thoughts?
 
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Backspace being the FN of space would be easier to swallow with the single thumb FN+Space combo a la Pandora.  Everything else, looks cluttered but I would get used to it without complaint.
 
I prefer to have Esc either as a dedicated key, or as a Meta key in the main block. Anything else makes it too hard to press Esc. It's a delicate balancing act: Esc shouldn't be too easy to press, to avoid accidents, so it shouldn't be a dedicated key in the main block, but it should be easy enough to press (e.g. for vi).

Backspace should be a dedicated key imo, and one that is at least as easy to hit as the one on the Pandora. It's hard to estimate how important this key is, and of course it depends on the user's error rate. On a compact, not completely standard keyboard, I expect it to be even more important than on a normal full keyboard.

What is the reason you insist on Home/End on West/East? I mean, that is obviously a good location for them, but moving them to NorthWest/SouthWest has its advantages too. Is "Pandora compatibility" the main problem? Or are Home/End so important that they need to be on the big action buttons and not the small ones?

If backspace on East is unacceptable, then perhaps it should be on M+3, which implies sacrificing one dedicated punctuation key (I would suggest moving \ | to the Meta layer).
 
So, in general this isn't causing a firestorm of criticism. Either Insert or Backspace would have to ride on Fn+space. If we can live with that concept, we gain a lot in the trade off.

+ F1-F12 is contiguous

+ F1-F12 and numbers can be 'locked forward' so that they're the 'top keys' during game play if desired.

+ PgUp, PgDn, Home, End (page navigation set) are maintained.

+ German use is without compromise. All letter keys are where letter keys should be.

+/- Backspace, Delete, Insert... Two of these are on the 2 additional game pad buttons. One is on Fn+space.

Frankly, I've grown to like this layout. It seems to satisfy every stated need with the exception of people who reflexively panic with the 'numbers on Fn layer'. What am I missing?

We can refine it a bit of course, but in general principle, is this something that we can move forward with?
 
Updating my proposal:

I made a slight tweak to the symbol row of the Insert at Fn+space version to see if I can make it a bit more efficient.

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/dce234b8e47d9a029c4467ca140b4b7c

  • The _ (underscore) can now be hit quickly with the left thumb tip rolling shift+-.
  • All of the diacritics (designated  by orange dotted circle ◌) are now grouped together on the right side.
  • Symbol key order from the rows they originated form has been maintained.
  • `~ is the 'most displaced key' which should be OK since I envision it getting more mileage as a diacritic than general use, though ~ itself IS very useful in Linux and should be easier to hit on the right than it was on the left (needs a shift mod).
  • DosBox compliant out of the box.
  • Should work for nearly every language in the Western world.
  • German usage without compromise (keys are where Germans should be used to them) with exception of the YZ switch which would have been an issue for English.
  • Gaming use is optimized.  F1-F12 and Numbers 1-0 can both be 'locked' forward (Fn _lock_) to allow skill/weapon selection on the numbers and communications on the F1-F12 keys (for example).  Should be awesome for FPS and (M)MORPG games.
I think this is highly viable - all of the requirements are present.  It should be easy to use.

Drawbacks and how to minimize them:

  • Numbers on the Fn layer bothers some people more than it probably should.  Symbols are more important for most uses and numbers can be 'locked forward' by pressing both shoulder and keyboard Fn keys at the same time (for longer number strings)
  • German symbols being up front and center may cause irrational anxiety to some English-only users.  Emphasize that they don't have to use the buttons that they don't want to - i.e. just because there is a German letter on the keyboard does NOT mean they have to know or learn German in order to use the device.  Emphasize that this is a device that 'brings the world together'.
I think it should work well.
 
Updated version:

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/ee8d3bc8b446f99c027105d3810f8d07

Removed the Greek & Math crap key.

Re-added the additional German and Spanish keys that _wb_ had removed.  I just noticed that he'd stripped those out - not sure why.

Fixed the silly formatting overkill that had crept in.

I decided that I do like the idea of Delete and Backspace on the game pad and Insert on Fn+space because Insert is the less used key.

I also added this one to the matrix - replaced the previous 'new' version actually, though it doesn't score well for those of you who crazy weighted 'Numbers on top layer'.  It scores very well for everything but numbers and 'clutter'.

No apologies or concessions for German use while not infringing on English use.  It is a 29 letter keyboard.

P+, L+2 and M+3 are all preserved with P+1 and L+2 mapped as German+.

Contiguous F1-F12.

F1-F12 and numbers all available on the lockable Fn layer together for gaming - which is a prime usage case for this device.  Should be fantastic in FPS and (M)MORPG games.

Enjoy!
 
There's a certain... justice?.. in putting insert on space.

As a North American, Ü is completely useless to me so that would be a no-brainer to remap, and if it already had INS that'd make it easy to simply make INS primary and forget about it. On the other hand, if INS sits on space then that completely frees up that otherwise unused key for something else entirely.

So I don't know. I guess I'd leave it on space so that Ü could be remapped to something else, and for those that actually need those characters it'd probably be less confusing and less error prone as well.
 
WizardStan said:
There's a certain... justice?.. in putting insert on space.


As a North American, Ü is completely useless to me so that would be a no-brainer to remap, and if it already had INS that'd make it easy to simply make INS primary and forget about it. On the other hand, if INS sits on space then that completely frees up that otherwise unused key for something else entirely.


So I don't know. I guess I'd leave it on space so that Ü could be remapped to something else, and for those that actually need those characters it'd probably be less confusing and less error prone as well.
Click to expand...
Personally, I plan to treat them as an extension of the game pad buttons.

http://www.keyboard-...27105d3810f8d07

⌦C  ⇞Y


  ⇤A  ⇥B


⌫Z  ⇟X


     Ü


    Ö Ä
 
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Here is my modification of the layout by Grench. It is slightly more US-centric and sacrifices the regular German layout a bit to provide a more traditional US-layout.

  • The QWERTY version.
  • The DVORAK version. This is just an example rebinding, not a keymat proposal.
I would personally rebind the international keys (now moved to a slightly less accessible position on the bottom) to additional modifiers keys.
It retains the strong coupling between keys and their shifted pairs, which simplifies porting software (i.e. the so-called "Dosbox compatibility").

The layout is more friendly for programming as the fairly frequent |\[{]};:'" avoid the harder to reach bottom-middle.

<edit>Shit, messed up the quote diacritcs...arghhh... so tricky to get right :( </edit>
 
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