Exophase
Nothing good will ever come of Exophase.
Segata Sanshiro said:
You may not think so, but there are definitely some out there.
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[Analysis] Retrospecter Pandora
- Thread starter Nintiendo1Spain
- Start date
You may not think so, but there are definitely some out there.
Im a long time lurker (years now...) and I have to say, Craig's response to this doesnt surprise me one bit. Ive come to expect some of the most immature and unprofessional responses/behavior from him, and in regards to this thread, instead of replying with something sane, he turns into some babbling internet retard. Sorry OP Team, but he makes you all look bad.
Seriously? Dont mean to point fingers... but if this is the guy at the head of this project, umm... its no surprise it is where its at today.
Its not like these guys are lying or misconstruing facts.
Seriously? Dont mean to point fingers... but if this is the guy at the head of this project, umm... its no surprise it is where its at today.
Its not like these guys are lying or misconstruing facts.
gruso
thunderbox
They are just flogging the same old material though. Is this humour now? Compiling a list of missed dates that we're all acutely aware of? There's scope for some good satire there but it hasn't been used. Instead it comes off as bitter. 1/10.
puppydee
Linux Virgin!
Hmm, the wifi is working perfectly back then but not now?? clearly some fib telling action there, lol 
Gruso said:
Hehe, yeah, they've done all the work compiling the quotes and then forgot to have any fun with it.
To be fair, it's the first tentative steps into this sort of thing, made by a group of amateurs who decided to be very public and include the community and share everything. I think there's something great about their constantly optimistic promises. It's been a roller-coaster ride that we've been allowed to experience with them.
It's like they're using openpandora's openness and maybe naivety as a weapon against them and that just doesn't sit right with me. Like the guy says, comes across as bitter and hate-filled rather than a light hearted ribbing unless something's been lost in translation.
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Alpha2
Heroic Autobot
ATXGuy said:
Excuse me Mr. "first post", But how exactly do you expect him to react to people trying to bring him down? "Oh geez, They're totally right! here let me pull a few thousand Pandoras magically from my rectum!"
No, he's reacting as anyone should laughing off their pathetic trolling attempts for the joke it is. Just because he mentioned days that he'd hoped to have the project ready doesnt mean he lied to anyone. If he's to be faulted for anything in the issuing of those dates, it's trying too hard to please the people that shelled out hard earned money on the hope that the team would deliver.
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VRAndy
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You say that like it's not a serious fault, almost a virtue.Alpha2 said:
In fact it is a serious fault. When money is changing hands there is a very real moral responsibility to provide honest and well researched time estimates.
(Also cost estimates, but Pandora is pre-pay, so that doesn't apply, of course.)
And don't think I'm comparing OP to a Fortune 500 company! On the contrary, those guys can get away with whatever they want. It's the little guys who have to be good.
If your local mechanic consistently told you that your car would be ready in "two days" and then strung you along like that for a fortnight, you'd have every right to be angry.
If your local graphic design firm told you they'd design your new logo in "Two Weeks" and then took four months, you'd be furious.
If your local baker told you that your birthday cake would be ready in "two hours" every time you tried to pick it up, and ultimately didn't finish it until three days after the birthday, you'd be livid.
And it wouldn't help at all if any of these businesses gave OpenPandora-style excuses for their change in estimates. ("We assumed that the frosting would be no problem at all, it turns out what should be a simple process is actually slow and painstaking!")
I'm not saying that Pandora won't be awesome when it comes out. And I'm also not saying that OpenPandora could somehow make things better by going down on their knees and begging for forgiveness or something. But I am saying that there's no need to sugar-coat it and pretend that OP has done perfectly and even their failures are somehow a virtue.
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Prometheus
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Wrath Of Khan
Soul soother...
Its a bit ludacris to always criticise "craigix".Its not like we ever met him.Its just internet.Id imagine that cake would be stale after 3 days.What baker do you use?VRAndy said:
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Exophase
Nothing good will ever come of Exophase.
This is rehashed a lot, we've all said our piece on this, but since I do enjoy tediously repeating myself a lot I'll give a quick recap on mine:
Open Pandora said they wouldn't take preorders until they were ready to ship - this is the one big thing I think you can pin dishonesty on them for. So they shouldn't have taken preorders in September 2008, in fact even now they're still not ready to take preorders. But OP had no choice but to take preorders, because they were depending on the preorder money to actually manufacture the thing. Regardless of how you look at it, this is how it was going to come to fruition, and it's possible that it wouldn't have worked out the same any other way. It's also possible that without basically misleading people they wouldn't have been able to get the money.
So if you're someone who thinks the ends justifies the means then you should be pretty much set with this. More directly speaking, if you want a Pandora, then you'll have to accept that bit of subtle deception.
Now, everything else said - all those things listed in this thread - were not lies. It's not a lie if you believe it to be true, and OP really did believe those things they said.
Does that mean OP doesn't have a "moral obligation" to deliver the Pandora on time? Maybe not, but what exactly are they supposed to do now to ensure this? No amount of saying they're wrong, they're sorry, they'll work harder, and even that they'll spend more money (that they don't have) is going to do anything to improve the situation. Other than feeling justified in criticizing them you really just have to live with it.
Open Pandora said they wouldn't take preorders until they were ready to ship - this is the one big thing I think you can pin dishonesty on them for. So they shouldn't have taken preorders in September 2008, in fact even now they're still not ready to take preorders. But OP had no choice but to take preorders, because they were depending on the preorder money to actually manufacture the thing. Regardless of how you look at it, this is how it was going to come to fruition, and it's possible that it wouldn't have worked out the same any other way. It's also possible that without basically misleading people they wouldn't have been able to get the money.
So if you're someone who thinks the ends justifies the means then you should be pretty much set with this. More directly speaking, if you want a Pandora, then you'll have to accept that bit of subtle deception.
Now, everything else said - all those things listed in this thread - were not lies. It's not a lie if you believe it to be true, and OP really did believe those things they said.
Does that mean OP doesn't have a "moral obligation" to deliver the Pandora on time? Maybe not, but what exactly are they supposed to do now to ensure this? No amount of saying they're wrong, they're sorry, they'll work harder, and even that they'll spend more money (that they don't have) is going to do anything to improve the situation. Other than feeling justified in criticizing them you really just have to live with it.
Wrath Of Khan
Soul soother...
Nuff said.Exophase said:
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WolfSpider
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How did WiFi stop working after half a year?Nintiendo1Spain said:
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Exophase
Nothing good will ever come of Exophase.
WolfSpider said:
It didn't. They just didn't test it thoroughly enough. It works now as much as it did back then.
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Exophase
Nothing good will ever come of Exophase.
VRAndy said:
Yes but you've probably seen him on TV.
And TV is not the internet.
Nothing on the internet matters. Everything is made up. Most of it is a joke for trolls. We're all probably bots. I stopped existing years ago.
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VRAndy
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I'm not sure how much you're replying to me here, but I specifically did not say they were lying. (I also didn't say that they weren't lying, because how would I know? But why not give them the benefit of the doubt?)Exophase said:
But, they certainly gave us many time estimates that, if honest, were not at all properly thought out and not at all properly researched.
When money has changed hands I'd say that this is negligent, and a poor way to treat customers.
Ok, but no amount of saying "They didn't do anything wrong! In fact, their only crime is loving us too much!" will make people less angry. Just the opposite really. It makes me think "Wow, this guy is a sucker and an idiot. ... But here I am, standing in line right next to him. Hmmm..."
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Alpha2
Heroic Autobot
@VRandy i'm not trying to justify anything Craig has done purposely how ever much bile you'd like to spit on the way that money was taken. There been more than enough grief over that to say the least (and frankly they never stopped anyone from asking for a rebate if a person ever felt ripped off). My point was, as Exophase said, that each of the dates the mentioned were dates that seemed reasonable to them at the time.
Someone you know tells you they'll stop by your house on Thursday, You tell a mutual acquaintance the same thing and he doesnt show, is that your fault? Sure maybe it is your fault for telling someone else the information that you werent about to confirm, but to the best of your knowledge that's what you expected to happen. That's all I'm saying They expected things and they didnt happen they wouldnt be the first people to suffer from this and they wont be the last, Hell almost every console game in the last half of 2009 was late, I'm pretty sure there are going to be more this year that should have shipped Q1 that wont make it before Q4 and the news sometimes doesnt come out until the week the games supposed to ship and these are big time multimillion dollar corporations.
Someone you know tells you they'll stop by your house on Thursday, You tell a mutual acquaintance the same thing and he doesnt show, is that your fault? Sure maybe it is your fault for telling someone else the information that you werent about to confirm, but to the best of your knowledge that's what you expected to happen. That's all I'm saying They expected things and they didnt happen they wouldnt be the first people to suffer from this and they wont be the last, Hell almost every console game in the last half of 2009 was late, I'm pretty sure there are going to be more this year that should have shipped Q1 that wont make it before Q4 and the news sometimes doesnt come out until the week the games supposed to ship and these are big time multimillion dollar corporations.
VRAndy
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At no point did I say that craigix has purposely did anything wrong. You may have misread my post.
Terrible analogy. Making the Pandora was a multi-step process and virtually every step of the way all steps except the current one were represented to us as though they were trivialAlpha2 said:
and accounted for, when clearly they were neither.
I'm sticking with my Cake Allegory.
Yes. I have noticed that. How is that relevant? (By the way, sometimes video game companies are sued for misrepresenting their progress to the people who invested in the game. Is that where you were going with that analogy? I hope not. )
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