Analog Nubs - Poll

[DaveC]

I'm not so sure we would want a nub similar in design to a PSP nub tho' Like I said, they aren't that good. Now if we could take that 1mm travel one and increase the travel, that'd probably be decent.

And Don't you remember? Stick click is how we quieted down all of those PSX-fanboys bitching about 4 shoulder buttons. Also, Stick click gives you 2 extra buttons that are a helluva lot easier to reach than the keyboard buttons.

-God Ginrai

Aren't all nub style analogs like the PSP though? They all work using the same concept I imagine. I can't imagine another nub will be a whole lot different.

That click for gaming controls could be pretty annoying though. Imagine if you press a bit hard during gameplay and you keep clicking the thing by accident causing unwanted game functions to happen. The keys are so close to the nubs all you would have to do is rock your thumb down to press one. To me better analog control is more important than another click button if you can only have one or the other.

 

[magicman5421]

I'd say that unless we can find a good 2mm nub in the next week or two, go with the 1mm nubs. With a product like this, there HAS to be somewhere that you draw the line, say "no more delays from here on, we're manufacturing even though there are small problems." It'll still be better than the launch GP2X. Otherwise, the Pandora will become just more vaporware, never actually being released.

 

[kloplop321]

1mm nubs would be pathetic. That would just be a BIG downer on the Pandora.

 

[Prophet]

Aren't all nub style analogs like the PSP though? They all work using the same concept I imagine. I can't imagine another nub will be a whole lot different.

Actually not all analogs work the same.

PSP's slide, but don't tilt. Most analogs (i.e. those found on gamepads, Zodiac etc.) tilt. And I think tilting is better (more natural and precise for the thumb motions).

QUOTE
That click for gaming controls could be pretty annoying though. Imagine if you press a bit hard during gameplay and you keep clicking the thing by accident causing unwanted game functions to happen. The keys are so close to the nubs all you would have to do is rock your thumb down to press one. To me better analog control is more important than another click button if you can only have one or the other.


Perhaps... but as said, that stick click makes up for lack of 4 shoulders. And extra inputs are always nice to have.

It'll still be better than the launch GP2X. Otherwise, the Pandora will become just more vaporware, never actually being released.

Had GP2X been delayed one month (or so) and ended up with good controls as a result - it would've been more successful. And owners would've been much more happy. Sadly they never got the controsl right.

In fact I'll disclose something - the bad controls were the reason I never bought one. At the time, I was a big GP2X supporter, I wrote the first board FAQ for it (still here in fact). But I already had a homebrew enabled PSP, and when I learned they screwed up the controls, I decided to keep my money. And that's sad. And I'm probably not the only one who avoided it due to bad controls.

 

[Kyo]

This turned up after a quick google, but seems inadequate and the manufacturer would have to be identified. People with more time are bound to have better results.

On a totally unrelated note, a bounty for the one that finds the perfect nub would be quite motivating. Like something for free.


that is a PSP nub, though

 

[chad78]

A (further) delay would be a Big Bad Thing <TM> for me. I freely admit that I'm not a hardcore gamer and I've been looking at the Pandora primarily as a kick-ass UMPC/PMP replacement for my desillusion in the Nokia Tablets. I was really looking forward to getting my paws on one by the end of july, but the possibility of another two months of delay might have me start looking elsewhere.
I'm with Karel. I already traded my N800 for an Eee PC (which is *still* "in the mail* grrr) because I knew I was getting a Pandora. I've got a DS Lite, a PSP, a Game Boy micro, and even a N-Gage for heaven's sake. Gaming is not my main concern.

I'm with the crowd that says raise the price to cover the new nubs. I'll pay an extra $10 to get the Pandora (relatively) "on time" than wait another 3 months for sodding nubs! (No, I'm not British, but I really wanted to cuss there, but thought it would take away from the validity of my argument.)

Craig - pay the $25,000 - raise the price to $340 - and get the thing to us.

Please!

$25,000 / 3000 ~ $8.34 If you raise the price $10 - you are getting the cost back and then some.

And, yes, you'll still sell out.

 

[CronoTriggerfan]

Aren't all nub style analogs like the PSP though? They all work using the same concept I imagine. I can't imagine another nub will be a whole lot different.

Actually not all analogs work the same.

PSP's slide, but don't tilt. Most analogs (i.e. those found on gamepads, Zodiac etc.) tilt. And I think tilting is better (more natural and precise for the thumb motions).
Prophet, I don't think he's talking about variants of analog sticks and nubs, rather that they all work the same, in which DaveC is correct. They're all potentiometers of one kind or another, a simple variable resistor to output different signals.

Craig - pay the $25,000 - raise the price to $340 - and get the thing to us.

Please!

$25,000 / 3000 ~ $8.34 If you raise the price $10 - you are getting the cost back and then some.

And, yes, you'll still sell out.

Do you have $25,000 sitting around? I doubt Craig does, either. Sure, the math works in the long term, but is the investment even possible? If I had a million dollars to start my own business, I'm sure I could make it turn a profit. Problem is, I don't have a million dollars to spend in the first place. There's also a huge issue of getting someone lined up to design this thing, and probably an entirely different set of people altogether to manufacture the damn things. Totally not worth it.

 

[chad78]

"PSP style = no click"

Couldn't you make the whole "nub area" a giant button and therefore retain the click? Or am I speaking without knowledge here?

 

[Prophet]

Aren't all nub style analogs like the PSP though? They all work using the same concept I imagine. I can't imagine another nub will be a whole lot different.

Actually not all analogs work the same.

PSP's slide, but don't tilt. Most analogs (i.e. those found on gamepads, Zodiac etc.) tilt. And I think tilting is better (more natural and precise for the thumb motions).
Prophet, I don't think he's talking about variants of analog sticks and nubs, rather that they all work the same, in which DaveC is correct. They're all potentiometers of one kind or another, a simple variable resistor to output different signals.


His point was maybe we could use PSP nubs because "they all work the same." We all know they use potentiometers - but the movement mechanism varies, and therefore that is what matters. Pandora was going to have tilting nubs with center click. And that would be ideal.

 

[kloplop321]

I am sure that would be bad for the connections and... difficult to manufacture..

 

[Kyo]

I'm not sure how that would work, chad.

Also, a custom nub for 25000$ WOULD mean a delay

 

[CronoTriggerfan]

His point was maybe we could use PSP nubs because "they all work the same." We all know they use pentiometers - but the movement mechanism varies, and therefore that is what matters. Pandora was going to have tilting nubs with center click. And that would be ideal.

Ahh, I see. But tilting nubs? I didn't know that. From the look of the videos on the nubs, they seem to move on a flat plane. Am I missing something?

 

[Prophet]

*sigh*

Alright... after mulling it over more, I'm opening up to some concessions.

1) Can we give up the center click?

Honestly, I guess we could. I guess...

2) Can we use PSP style sliding analogs?

Yeah, I guess so. They'd be better than those little 1mm travel nubs I guess.

But damnit, those 2mm nubs with center click would've been nice. If there's any way we can still get something like that, please do it.

 

[Chip]

If the available 1mm pads were in the spec from the beginning and nobody had ever seen the discontinued ones, would there be any complaints? If it had been explained from the beginning that "These analog pads have a bit less travel than the PSP, but they have center click", would there have been a universal outcry to create a custom part?

Just trying to put things in perspective.

 

[Prophet]

Ahh, I see. But tilting nubs? I didn't know that. From the look of the videos on the nubs, they seem to move on a flat plane. Am I missing something?

I thought the big one tilted somewhat, but you may be right. But I don't see how center click would be implemented well on a sliding analog. The little one barely moves at all so it doesn't even matter how it works.

If the available 1mm pads were in the spec from the beginning and nobody had ever seen the discontinued ones, would there be any complaints? If it had been explained from the beginning that "These analog pads have a bit less travel than the PSP, but they have center click", would there have been a universal outcry to create a custom part?

Just trying to put things in perspective.

For even more perspective, look at what happened with the GP2X controls.

1mm travel is pretty limiting. Pandora is going to be an emulation machine for many people, and dual analogs really set it apart from anything else ever made. Bad analogs could potentially ruin aspects of PSX and N64 emulation, as well as other apps.

 

[CronoTriggerfan]

Ahh, I see. But tilting nubs? I didn't know that. From the look of the videos on the nubs, they seem to move on a flat plane. Am I missing something?

I thought the big one tilted somewhat, but you may be right. But I don't see how center click would be implemented well on a sliding analog. The little one barely moves at all so it doesn't even matter how it works.

Yeah, it seems on a slider the tact switch click would be fairly sensitive. Maybe Sony knew what they were doing when they left it out of their device?

And Chip, I'd have to agree with the above statement. The hysteria would be much less if these nubs had been the originals. On the other hand, it's like showing a kid a big cookie, throwing it away, and then handing the kid a carrot. Okay, it's not that bad at all, just trying to make an opposing analogy. :lol:

 

[Prophet]

it's like showing a kid a big cookie, throwing it away, and then handing the kid a carrot.

Don't forget the part about the kid paying over $300 for the carrot.

 

[declaration]

In the real world, companies (even small companies like this) have to get products out there at some point. Compromises have to be made, and you have to accept what is on offer.

It isn't fair to expect the team to wait forever because a few people are being picky at best, anal at worst, and all about something relatively minor.

Otherwise, it will never come out.

 

[Eolair]

If it had been explained from the beginning that "These analog pads have a bit less travel than the PSP, but they have center click", would there have been a universal outcry to create a custom part?

IMO, the explanation would have had to be "These analog pads have 1/4th the precision of the PSP's, but they have center click". With analog controls the throw distance is needed for control precision, so the explanation would probably still have led to some complaints...

 

[craigix]

The $25,000 is just for the development, then we will have the cost of the nubs on top of that. ie 6000x~$4.