All Gen Gamers Joking about the Pandora

[chewdiggy]

I watched a couple of videos, not impressed by his style. Amazes me how many views he has considering so many other YouTube users do so much more, his top 100's don't even use gameplay footage.

 

[thatgui]

Because like BSOD and one-button-mouse, things change. Those are things of the past. MS and Apple did something to alter peoples' mind about it. And so should we. No indicator? How about past experience? If he gets the unit, it's 99.99% likely he will note it in a future podcast. And this will alter the listeners' previous perception of the product and company. Not everyone will order a Pandora, we know that, but the positive news will have a chain-reaction, which was discussed before.

I disagree, BSOD is no thing of the past, people are just stuck with Windows as most people are creatures of habit. He sure will mention that he got the Pandora in his next Podcast but there is no reason to believe that this will automatically change his viewers/listeners judgment about the Pandora. We do not know how he will make note of it (maybe he makes a joke out of it, again) nor can we ignore the fact that usually the first info about something sticks - think of tabloid headlines, even if the publishers are sentenced to print a correction in the next issue, the headline will stick to the case.

Related analogy: if you release a ball from 2 feet high, you don't actually KNOW for certain it will fall. You just know it has done so before, and most likely will do so this time, too. There are people who actually study these sorts of things in the marketing field, I'm not just making this up.

Hard to believe that oversimplifing things with that analogy will serve any purpose, as the influences of one of newtons laws is something we experience every day of your life and grow very experienced in it. But predicting people reactions is quite another beast - think of apple, eight to ten years back no one predicted apple ascension into a market leading posiition. Or if you like it more case related, take the c't "fiasco" (I'm dramatizing a little, it was no real fiasco): A review from a or better "the" german publication regarding computer technology, where everbody was certain the editorial staff would see the potential of the Pandora. But it was quite the opposite.


Such laws in general can only descibe the outcome in a contained environment with specific, known influence factors - put your analogy outside a house in autumn with a not plain surface where the ball should bounce off - the outcome may differ from your past experiences.


But maybe my basic knowledge of the english language leaves me here and I simply did not get what you were trying to tell me, so please guide me in the right direction if I did.

My acquisition strategy being wise or unwise has no bearing whether other people do this also. But marketing studies have shown that this actually is quite common, so I'm not the only one. People can be quite irrational (but still predictable). One extreme example are fanboys, it's very hard to persuade them to change their minds. (And furthermore, I personally like to think my acquisition strategy as rewarding/punishing companies for their past actions.)

As you are obviously more educated in this, no objection from me, but that does not mean (for me) it is best way of making a purchase decision, in fact i'd say it is more then just "suboptimal"

I'm not sure how the "off-the-shelf" part relates to that part of my post. But it does relate to the follower and his friend part. And remember that discussing with knowledgeable friends is also part of "looking into it". And if that part gives a negative impression, it means all the other background checking needs to give a far better impression to get a sale done. And in the worst case, the word-of-mouth might drive the potential customer to skip the product altogether, without giving it a chance to redeem itself.

"The off-the-shelf" part was indeed not related to your post, more some kind of loud thinking.

Actually, I even used the "if" word. Nevertheless, this is the same ball dropping analogy with regards to the chain-reaction, I wouldn't even need the "if".

see first paragraph

Yes, it feels bad when someone else gets something you don't, and even for free. I feel for you. But like I said before, ED swallowed the upgrade fee himself. It isn't anything away from the rest of us. ED calculated this as an investment. And like he said before, he is more lenient with bloggers and reviewers. And a retro-gaming podcaster with 40000 like-minded listeners? I'd say that's right up our alley.


(and yes, I know not ALL of them can be accounted as hearing that particular future podcast or even as potential customers)

No need to feel for me as I already have my Pandora for more than a year. As many people I'd like my illusions be kept intact, and react somewhat emotional when reality breaks through. Thats the case here, the Pandora beeing the anchor windward of mass market purchase decisions.


What "feels bad" is that he got a speedup simply because he is a "cry baby" 8so to speak).


But whats done is done, so no need to waste more time/words on this. Lets just wait for his review

 

[aatu]

<snip> Not everyone will order a Pandora, we know that, but the positive news will have a chain-reaction, which was discussed before. </snip>

I disagree, BSOD is no thing of the past, people are just stuck with Windows as most people are creatures of habit. He sure will mention that he got the Pandora in his next Podcast but there is no reason to believe that this will automatically change his viewers/listeners judgment about the Pandora. We do not know how he will make note of it (maybe he makes a joke out of it, again) nor can we ignore the fact that usually the first info about something sticks - think of tabloid headlines, even if the publishers are sentenced to print a correction in the next issue, the headline will stick to the case.

If you want to disagree on the BSOD, then fine. Just think of an example of Company X, which had a Product Y with Problem Z, which they later fixed and released a Product Y2 without Problem Z.


Are you actually reading my posts with any thought? Even the part you quoted said it: "Not everyone will order a Pandora, we know that, but the positive news will have a chain-reaction, which was discussed before."


So yeah, not AUTOMATICALLY change judgement, but it will have the chain-reaction. Or are you disagreeing with the chain-reaction? About how people communicate with each other and tell about their experiences?


And yes, we know that the first impression has a strong impact. But it can still be altered, even if it takes more work than what it took for the first impression. That's exactly why we need DAMAGE CONTROL.


Ugh, I don't think I'm getting through to you with what I mean with chain-reaction, so let me present it in a form of an example.


======================


Background:


OP - OpenPandora (not separating the UK and German part for now)


Mike - a retro-gaming podcaster


John - subscriber to the podcast


Paul - friend of John, potential customer of OP


Matt - another friend of John, potential customer of OP


Chris - yet another friend of John, potential customer of OP


It's quite rare to have a simple case of good/bad, there are shades of grey. So imagine a scale of -50 .... +50, implicating the average(*) consensus among the listeners, including subscriber John:


-50 = do not want


0 = maybe


+50 = gimme gimme


Let us begin:


Before the introduction of OP, point is at 0.


Every time podcaster Mike tells of good or bad news regarding on OP, the scale tips accordingly.


+30 (woot, new incredible handheld)


-6 (bank problems)


-12 (case&nub problems)


-15 (delays)


+15 (first mass production run)


-7 (delays)


So now we're at +5, positive maybe. Along comes friend Paul, telling John about how he just stumbled upon OP via Engadget, and asks John if he has heard about OP, and what's the deal with it. John describes his experience according to the +5. Paul decides to take the plunge and orders one.


-8 (delays)


+18 (moving production, new investors)


-7 (delays)


-12 (delays)


+11 (1GHz units)


-14 (delays)


-23 (delays, "SuperPandora 2.0")


So now we're at -30, things are pretty bad. Along comes friend Matt, telling John about how he just stumbled upon OP via Retrogamermag123, and asks John if he has heard about OP, and what's the deal with it. John describes his experience according to the -30, which is quite bad. -30 is actually so bad, that Matt decides to skip it altogether.


+20 (it's finally here!)


So now we're at -10, still slightly negative. Along comes friend Chris, telling John about how he just stumbled upon OP via Ballerinas-united, and asks John if he has heard about OP, and what's the deal with it. John describes his experience according to the -10, which is "meh". -10 is not enough to take the plunge, but Chris decides to follow the project for the time being.


So, changing the general/average consensus will have an impact on potential customers, even if they're not the ones listening to the podcast. When in turn someone asks Paul, Matt or Chris about the OP, they will tell according to their knowledge, which are +5, -30, -10.


(*): Yes, not everyone will react exactly the same, that's why it's called average. If the average score is -20, somebody will react with according to -30, while someone will react with -10, and so on.


=======================

<the-ball-analogy>

Hard to believe that oversimplifing things with that analogy will serve any purpose, as the influences of one of newtons laws is something we experience every day of your life and grow very experienced in it. But predicting people reactions is quite another beast - think of apple, eight to ten years back no one predicted apple ascension into a market leading posiition. Or if you like it more case related, take the c't "fiasco" (I'm dramatizing a little, it was no real fiasco): A review from a or better "the" german publication regarding computer technology, where everbody was certain the editorial staff would see the potential of the Pandora. But it was quite the opposite.


Such laws in general can only descibe the outcome in a contained environment with specific, known influence factors - put your analogy outside a house in autumn with a not plain surface where the ball should bounce off - the outcome may differ from your past experiences.


But maybe my basic knowledge of the english language leaves me here and I simply did not get what you were trying to tell me, so please guide me in the right direction if I did.

The purpose was this:


There's actually no guarantee that the ball falls. It can be 99.9999999999999999% certain it does, but there's still that small chance that the gravity as a force suddenly stops or that some unpredicted counter-force occurs (like a strong gust of wind), and the ball keeps stationary, or even starts to fly upwards.


So the analogy was to emphasize this fact:


You can't be SURE of anything (or like you said, something happening "automatically"). But you can draw conclusions from the past and predict what is *likely* to happen.


So, (through prior experience and studies) we know that good news *usually* have good implications. And bad news *usually* have bad implications. In any case, sending him the unit doesn't actually have any foreseeable BAD implications.


Furthermore, predicting ONE person's reaction is hard, because the chance of deviation is higher. But when the number of samples increases, the average begins to stabilize, and we can begin to use more common generalizations.

No need to feel for me as I already have my Pandora for more than a year. As many people I'd like my illusions be kept intact, and react somewhat emotional when reality breaks through. Thats the case here, the Pandora beeing the anchor windward of mass market purchase decisions.


What "feels bad" is that he got a speedup simply because he is a "cry baby" 8so to speak).


But whats done is done, so no need to waste more time/words on this. Lets just wait for his review

He got a speedup because he has a like-minded crowd of followers, in addition to him being a pre-orderer. It was a chance to enhance OP's image. If you think about it, it's no different from sending him a review unit. Except because he is also a pre-orderer, he can now keep the unit. No reason to send units back and forth, with costly shipping fees.


And he didn't actually come and ask for a special treatment, himself. And as I already stated this: ED said he is more lenient with bloggers and reviewers.

 

[2bit]

Wally , PokeParadox if your reading this would you lock it ? I feel we're arguing merly to defend our dignity now . Obviously we could keep going until the reviewer in question trips and hits his head on a gravestone , then dies . Edit :


And arguing about something that has already happened is not going to prevent it as it already happened .

 

[thatgui]

If you want to disagree on the BSOD, then fine. Just think of an example of Company X, which had a Product Y with Problem Z, which they later fixed and released a Product Y2 without Problem Z.

MS was just meant as an example. As you wrote yourself people can be quite irrational (but predictable) about it, it is not in any case sufficient to fix something in a later product.

Are you actually reading my posts with any thought? Even the part you quoted said it: "Not everyone will order a Pandora, we know that, but the positive news will have a chain-reaction, which was discussed before."


So yeah, not AUTOMATICALLY change judgement, but it will have the chain-reaction. Or are you disagreeing with the chain-reaction? About how people communicate with each other and tell about their experiences?


...

I try to, but as said my comprehensive skills are somewhat limited so I apologize if I offended you. I did notice the chain-reaction, but does a chain reaction not need a somewhat steady awareness of a product ?


The Pandora had not a lot of impact on the market or the related part of the internet in general, and with new electronic devices beeing announcend every month, I see some weak or even missing links in the chain, like:


Peter: Hey have you heard about the Pandora


Mary: Yah, wait...wasn't that new app for Samsung TVs wasn't it


Peter: No that Open console thing


Mary: Ahh, yes - wait I saw a review once in a blog, but where was that again ?


.....

The purpose was this:


There's actually no guarantee that the ball falls. It can be 99.9999999999999999% certain it does, but there's still that small chance that the gravity as a force suddenly stops or that some unpredicted counter-force occurs (like a strong gust of wind), and the ball keeps stationary, or even starts to fly upwards.


So the analogy was to emphasize this fact:


You can't be SURE of anything (or like you said, something happening "automatically"). But you can draw conclusions from the past and predict what is *likely* to happen.

I still can't believe that the analogy fits as I see more factors weighing in that can have big influences (positive or negative, of course) as laws of human behaviour always seemed far more harder to descibe than the fabric of your universe. Especially in the case of the Pandora with a rather small audience / reception making it hard to average things out.

So, (through prior experience and studies) we know that good news *usually* have good implications. And bad news *usually* have bad implications. In any case, sending him the unit doesn't actually have any foreseeable BAD implications.

I never denied that

He got a speedup because he has a like-minded crowd of followers, in addition to him being a pre-orderer. It was a chance to enhance OP's image. If you think about it, it's no different from sending him a review unit. Except because he is also a pre-orderer, he can now keep the unit. No reason to send units back and forth, with costly shipping fees.

I guess we can leave shipping fees out of the euqation as a free 1 Ghz Upgrade surely does cost more. And it is still something different as said before (the "Illusions" part of my last post)

And he didn't actually come and ask for a special treatment, himself. And as I already stated this: ED said he is more lenient with bloggers and reviewers.

He did not, it was his "I got 40000 followers" he was very persitent with in every mail he wrote, that got my fences up.


But as 2bit said, it serves no purpose to pollute this thread any further. So I leave you to correct me and keep my hands of the keyboard in that matter (which will be hard for me, not because of my "strong" arguments, but beeing a "mister know it all" ).

 

[aatu]

http://xkcd.com/386/


No need to lock it up, we'll just agree to disagree, and move on.

 

[vcoleiro1]

Well I'm guessing in a week or 2 Gamester81 should have the Pandora ED sent him. He should then have his review up on his YouTube channel a day or 2 after that. He usually leans towards being positive in his reviews..


On a side note, in reference to comments saying he should have been sent a review Pandora which would then need to be returned.


Think of it this way, what if after waiting years for your Pandora you received a review unit instead that needed to be returned. What kind of review do you think you would write. If it was me , that Pandora wouldn't even get reviewed , I'd be massively insulted. The only thing on my mind would be how hard I could throw it against a wall and pondering how many bits it would break into.

 

[quartercast]

I would be honored to receive a review unit. It might sway me to upgrade my own order.

 

[authoreyes]

Sorry, I don't approve of queue jumping due to any reason other than the guy who was seriously ill and had terminal cancer.


I'm from Australia, we disapprove of queue jumpers in general. Everyone deserves a fair go

Wow... serendipitous...


Not sure if you meant me (but if so I am honored ), and still here...


Amazing, things changed much in my life since fighting cancer, and I recently decided to jump back into this community little by little and one of the first threads I read has this post...I can never be grateful enough to the OpenPandora team or community for that...It truly lifted my spirits during that time...Nice to see so many same faces fighting the good fight.

 

[thatgui]

http://xkcd.com/386/


No need to lock it up, we'll just agree to disagree, and move on.

I thought the same when writing my posts :rolleyes:

 

[quartercast]

Sorry, I don't approve of queue jumping due to any reason other than the guy who was seriously ill and had terminal cancer.


I'm from Australia, we disapprove of queue jumpers in general. Everyone deserves a fair go

Wow... serendipitous...


Not sure if you meant me (but if so I am honored ), and still here...


Amazing, things changed much in my life since fighting cancer, and I recently decided to jump back into this community little by little and one of the first threads I read has this post...I can never be grateful enough to the OpenPandora team or community for that...It truly lifted my spirits during that time...Nice to see so many same faces fighting the good fight.

Yes authoreyes, 'twas you I was thinking of! I'm very happy to see you back on the boards here and thanks for letting us know how you're going.


Keep going strong and keep posting my friend

 

[authoreyes]

Sorry, I don't approve of queue jumping due to any reason other than the guy who was seriously ill and had terminal cancer.


I'm from Australia, we disapprove of queue jumpers in general. Everyone deserves a fair go

Wow... serendipitous...


Not sure if you meant me (but if so I am honored ), and still here...


Amazing, things changed much in my life since fighting cancer, and I recently decided to jump back into this community little by little and one of the first threads I read has this post...I can never be grateful enough to the OpenPandora team or community for that...It truly lifted my spirits during that time...Nice to see so many same faces fighting the good fight.

Yes authoreyes, 'twas you I was thinking of! I'm very happy to see you back on the boards here and thanks for letting us know how you're going.


Keep going strong and keep posting my friend

Likewise, great to be back

 

[WizardStan]

Wow... serendipitous...

No kidding. I spent the past week cleaning out backlogs of spam on gp32x and when I came across some in your thread I stopped to reread the entire thing. Right in the feels, man. Glad to see you're pulling strong.

 

[diligentcircle]

Honestly, I don't have high hopes for Gamester81's review of the Pandora. He's not that good at research and/or not that bright; once when he reviewed a controller with turbo (the Generation NEX wireless arcade joystick, IIRC), he attempted to use the turbo for jumping in Super Mario Bros 3, and was confused when he saw Mario making short hops. He also has no idea that downloading ROMs from the internet is a violation of copyright. I'm sure there are other similar blunders, though I can't name any off the top of my head.


My prediction is that he will associate his long wait for the Pandora as something normal for Pandora orders, and say that you will wait for an extremely long time if you order now, even though this is false. He might also assume that the MegaDrive emulator doesn't support the 6-button controller or other such nonsense, and might not even think to look for web browsers other than the one built into the system. Heck, he might assume that it just doesn't work when he clicks on the link in the menu, assigns the default browser to "debian sensible browser", and gets an error.

 

[Kumaki]

http://xkcd.com/386/


No need to lock it up, we'll just agree to disagree, and move on.

I thought the same when writing my posts :rolleyes:

LOL...the only thing that gets me THAT fired up on the Internet...is when someone has the wrong political view!! (in other words, not in agreement with my views, which of course are the correct ones!)

 

[vcoleiro1]

Seems Gamester81 got the Pandora ED sent him but is having issues running the Emu's . He started a thread here:





Can someone help him out for the greater good.

 

[EssoAir]

I think you guys are too worried. 40,000 listeners isn't that much. I think it would be more wise to go after youtube lets-players like TotalBiscut, EthosLab, and (my personal favorite) KurtJMac who all have a lot more than 40,000 subs. If we could send them a unit to review or even get them to talk about it on their respective shows that would generate a lot of positive publicity

 

[Link]

^


So you've listened to the podcast?


Do you think talk like that about the Pandora is going to help anyone sell anymore of them?


What has occurred is called Customer Service. If TotalBiscut, EthosLab, and KurtJMac preordered a Pandora, it might be wise to get one into their hands for a review if they haven't already received their unit.


It's not just 40000 listeners, but potential customers because its not just something on TV with a generic audience, these people broadcast to an audience of gamers and enthusiasts.


I met this guy in person and felt horrible about his situation. I'm not worried about anything except making sure that everyone who preordered a unit gets what they paid for, and anyone else who supports the project as a newcomer gets their Pandora without a wait or hassle.


Why don't you contact the 3 people you mentioned and PM me their information if they want to review the Pandora?

 

[Trezker]

40000 listeners, say we want 4 orders. That'd cover the queue jump and bit. So 0.01% of the listeners need to buy and it's already worth sending him the unit...


Also, 40000 needs to be multiplied by the average number of people these listeners talk to about Pandora.