A video. Again. Mostly about cases.


In my opinion "US International" layout was the best option, adapting it to Pyra Keyboard, as with US International you can write directly (with SAME layout, not changing) in all important European languages (and this includes languages spoken in America, Australia and other places with strong European presence).
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/KB_US-International.svg

Dear god, no! As a native english speaker who only needs accents occasionally, that looks far too confusing. How exactly am I meant to type tilde on that? Personally, I'm happier using a compose key for the occasional use it gets.
 
English is never a problem as it has so little "symbols" on letters or extra-letters. So this keyboard is adapted to "German and French". I think there are a lot of other western European languages with a lot of millions of speakers and we will see how good we can transform/adapt keyboard to work well with those languages.

In my opinion "US International" layout was the best option, adapting it to Pyra Keyboard, as with US International you can write directly (with SAME layout, not changing) in all important European languages (and this includes languages spoken in America, Australia and other places with strong European presence).

Of course I KNOW "It is -done-", so now we only can wait to have Pyra and adapt keyboard by software and see how good adaptation goes (with a Keyboard for German/French with its "special" characters).

PD: Daily I use 2 western languages in my computer, so I prefer to use only US Int layout, instead of changing between different layouts constantly.



Well, German and French language will be good served (English doesn't need it). We will see how all other western languages, with millions of speakers, will be served without AltGR (mapping it on other side). We will see as "it is done" (good or bad, "it is done").

If you have to use it a lot of times, pressing 2 modifiers (at same time or consecutively) will not work in good way. We will see how we adapt it.

We actually had proposed several layouts that would have been able to service any language with a Latin alphabet, but the English speakers freaked out over it.
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/c422218c5ab674611566e18b38a26b33
Those circles are diacritics related to the top level markings that trigger from the Fn+diacritic key.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/KB_US-International.svg

Dear god, no! As a native english speaker who only needs accents occasionally, that looks far too confusing. How exactly am I meant to type tilde on that? Personally, I'm happier using a compose key for the occasional use it gets.

We don't have enough keys to do that layout anyway.
 
We actually had proposed several layouts that would have been able to service any language with a Latin alphabet, but the English speakers freaked out over it.
Just for a lack of empathy/surplus of arrogance, or were practical criteria involved?
 
Just for a lack of empathy/surplus of arrogance, or were practical criteria involved?
I do not pretend to know their true motivations, but the declared it "unusable by English speakers". I put in a link to one of that style above.

It had several interesting capabilities beyond typing. I introduced a concept of Fn+Fn=FnLock which could make the Fn layer "top" for easy access to numbers and Fn keys during games. It also utilized unmodified, shift, Fn and shift+Fn layers which bothered some people. General clutter feeling was criticized as well - was deemed too busy.

Done is done though.
 
I do not pretend to know their true motivations, but the declared it "unusable by English speakers". I put in a link to one of that style above.

It had several interesting capabilities beyond typing. I introduced a concept of Fn+Fn=FnLock which could make the Fn layer "top" for easy access to numbers and Fn keys during games. It also utilized unmodified, shift, Fn and shift+Fn layers which bothered some people. General clutter feeling was criticized as well - was deemed too busy.

Done is done though.
What I actually meant by my question was, Was your proposed layout a superset of a good one for English speakers and they ruled it out for visual noice on the physical keys or were there tradeoffs?
 
What I actually meant by my question was, Was your proposed layout a superset of a good one for English speakers and they ruled it out for visual noice on the physical keys or were there tradeoffs?
I thought so. Just seeing foreign symbols on the Fn layer on the current/final layout has resulted in post-keyboard-discussion rants of how they won't know how to use it because of it being a German keyboard. I have talked a few of them back off of that with assurances that it will not inconvenience them.
 
I thought so. Just seeing foreign symbols on the Fn layer on the current/final layout has resulted in post-keyboard-discussion rants of how they won't know how to use it because of it being a German keyboard. I have talked a few of them back off of that with assurances that it will not inconvenience them.
That's a sad testament. As if it was hard to imagine, that nobody else had need for <Y> and it would be skipped, cause having it in the layout would be to confusing. However, what's done is done.
 
Well to be fair it's kind of what I meant when I said the US-int layout was confusing to me. I did then try to excuse myself by justifying it that I couldn't find how to press tilde, but my first impression was that it wasn't for me, I'm afraid.
 
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/KB_US-International.svg

Dear god, no! As a native english speaker who only needs accents occasionally, that looks far too confusing. How exactly am I meant to type tilde on that? Personally, I'm happier using a compose key for the occasional use it gets.

It seems you have never used US International layout.

tilde ( ˜ or ~) is inserted in US Int layout with the same key that in US layout but adding "SPACE" so you get ~ instead of ã ẽ ĩ õ .. (you can get ñ in this way or via AltGR+n).

But a good thing about US Int is that keys and symbols in US keyboard are the same than in US Int. You can switch between them and all keys are in the same place. The only different is that in US Int RightAlt is AltGr and you can have same "dead keys" to introduce things like á ó ö ã é...

For example if you change between German layout and US or UK layout, lots of symbols keys (printed on keyboard) change (not only QWERTZ to QWERTY)

If you use English the best layout is US, much better than UK in a PC Keyboard.

But the best thing about US (international or not) layout in PC keyboard is that it is more ergonomic than European keyboard: Simply LEFT SHIFT and ENTER keys are nearer from central keyboard position, exactly one key nearer, so you can reach those keys without forcing your hands/fingers, while in European keyboard you need to force your little finger or to move your hand from central position or force your wrist.

Finally I don't want to speak about this because:

1/ Pyra keyboard is not a PC keyboard (in a PC keyboard I know which is better because I have used US/US Int and European keyboards).

2/ Pyra keyboard is done, good done or bad done, but DONE, so we have to live with it.

I simply was showing, with my previous message, Pyra keyboard is optimized for German/French (English doesn't need it as it doesn't use those extra symbols on letters), and NOT for all other western European languages with millions and millions of speakers. Contrary to that US International layout is designed so that all important western languages can use it without changing keyboard layout (for example if you manage English and 2 more western languages, you can use all them correctly with only one layout: US Int).

I don't want discussion about this. I only pointed it like a problem we will see how to address when we be using Pyra, as its keyboard layout is only optimized for 2 western languages (plus EN which doesn't need optimization), leaving all other in possible bad situation.
 
Next time, then. :)

It depends on what you mean by next time. There were news (mid July'19) that ED intended to offer keyboard customization kits, so with some transparent paper, scissors, screwdriver, spare time, a printer and software tweaks everyone could have a different keyboard (with the same number of keys).

More on topic: I'd prefer a non painted case, and I'm pessimist enough to foresee delays in implementing paint, coating or whatever it is. Maybe it can cause problems with additional thickness but I really don't have a clue about that.
My reason is simple and egotistical. I don't think it makes a lot of difference, but assuming unpainted looks cheapo, it'd prefer it to be unattractive to any thieves, airport security guards, or dumb people in general. It's an expensive mobile device, anyway, and it implies risks of losing it or being stealed. So if it looks like a cheap toy nobody could possibly want, much the better to me. I'm not looking to impress people, and specially not by something I own or carry. You might argue that I can help them by letting them know something they might want exists, but I don't think creating needs helps much anyone, and I don't consider myself similar enough to the average person to be in a position to try. That's mainly because I don't intend to sell Pyras, though, so I understand ED to be exactly opposed to me (I couldn't have even conceived cerating something like the Pyra, so we're necessarily different, if he was like me the Pyra wouldn't exist). I don't care much, because I really don't think it will matter much to buyers, reviewers or thieves, anyway, because people don't look so closely.

I sympathize with whoever suggested making a more grainy texture to hide decolorisation and helping grip, but I really don't know if that's possible at all, how risky or expensive or how useful, and wothwhile it can be. I guess if it was easy it would have been tried by now.

About colors, I like black or gray. I don't like that brown, although I like the dark red renders, and I dislike the blue case for some reason.

But I see ED not liking it unpainted and ED is an optimist and Pyra is his baby, so I know it'll be painted. It's his call. We'll just trust him.

Btw, the unedited videos are good enough for me. I don't mind, perfect videos, easy videos, text or pictures. I welcome any news in any format I can consume (standards-wise, and not on privacy invading closed gardens like twitter or so).
 
I'll pitch in my 2 cents. I think we should coat the cases. I'm in the same boat as many of you, where I've had cheap painted cases and the paint wears off. I've also had plenty of devices where the coating hasn't worn off yet. Someone (don't remember who) meantioned that thinkpads have a coating that comes off quite easily. For my thinkpad, which I've had for about a year now, and is certainly not treated kindly in regards to what things can scuff and rub up against it, is doing just fine with the plastic parts. In fact, the part that looks the ugliest right now is the scratched up aluminum on the lid.
In the long run, I think coated cases are probably the way to go.
 
it'd prefer it to be unattractive to any thieves, airport security guards, or dumb people in general. It's an expensive mobile device, anyway, and it implies risks of losing it or being stealed. So if it looks like a cheap toy nobody could possibly want, much the better to me.
You've convinced me, I want it to look cheap as well!
 
With all these keyboard threads I get confused about which one I am reading.

Would it be better if I just let the FUD questions regarding the keyboard linger and fester or to continue to try to answer them as they come up to assure everyone that what we have is good, done and doesn't suck?
 
It seems you have never used US International layout.

tilde ( ˜ or ~) is inserted in US Int layout with the same key that in US layout but adding "SPACE" so you get ~ instead of ã ẽ ĩ õ .. (you can get ñ in this way or via AltGR+n).
Ah right, so it's red because it's a symbol modifier deaf key. Kind of makes sense. Still, two sequential keys to enter the tilde (a common key in linux/unit) sounds like a downside to me.
If you use English the best layout is US, much better than UK in a PC Keyboard.
I'm in the UK, so I've used a BBC Micro with a kind of US keyboard, and an Acorn Archimedes with an even more US keyboard but still most of the keyboards I've ended up inheriting and using on various projects are UK layout. I don't have a problem with that. I mean I do tend to buy a US keyboard if I have the option every time I buy a keyboard for myself, but that's because I prefer to have a single key where all of my quote keys are rather than the exact positioning of the enter key. But I'm adaptable and have ended up using various UK keyboard on various bits of kit I'm running.
 
I had order Dark red color from the time i saw that this red looks more like brown . probably next week it will arrive to my hands :) .But Discolors are goin to be there . So at the momment the plan we had discused a bit with ED and as he mantion on the video is to have the same color on the plastic and Paint if that happens . Also do not be afraid for the paint ,As you can understand there are profesional companies out there that can manage to make a very good Paint on item, there are always bad companies too though .ED will manage it cause he has experiance of bad companies and good companies . Also the truth is that most of the items you see on the market are painted for couple of reasons. My opinion is to paint the item for more sales since it will look better and will be easier to sell something that it looks good . Then you can invest the monney for improvments or for a new product and since you allready have experiance how all this thing works you know what tools to buy . So yeah for me Paint is the best solution for this project .
Good to know and thanks for the response.
 
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