A video. Again. Mostly about cases.

[oskda]

... this should not be necessary to communicate in English, German or French

English is never a problem as it has so little "symbols" on letters or extra-letters. So this keyboard is adapted to "German and French". I think there are a lot of other western European languages with a lot of millions of speakers and we will see how good we can transform/adapt keyboard to work well with those languages.

In my opinion "US International" layout was the best option, adapting it to Pyra Keyboard, as with US International you can write directly (with SAME layout, not changing) in all important European languages (and this includes languages spoken in America, Australia and other places with strong European presence).

Of course I KNOW "It is -done-", so now we only can wait to have Pyra and adapt keyboard by software and see how good adaptation goes (with a Keyboard for German/French with its "special" characters).

PD: Daily I use 2 western languages in my computer, so I prefer to use only US Int layout, instead of changing between different layouts constantly.

...There is no Alt-Gr. These are fully realized characters on the Fn layer.

... there is an entire additional layer accessible by Fn+Shift+key. Fn+Shift are laid out to be easily 'chordable' - to be pressed with a single thumb on the front right keymat corner or shoulder mashed with the finger(s) on the left shoulder.

Well, German and French language will be good served (English doesn't need it). We will see how all other western languages, with millions of speakers, will be served without AltGR (mapping it on other side). We will see as "it is done" (good or bad, "it is done").

If you have to use it a lot of times, pressing 2 modifiers (at same time or consecutively) will not work in good way. We will see how we adapt it.

 

[God Ginrai]

I don't envy the decision that ED has to make.
I bought new feet for my mouse and I was sick of the sticky feeling that I assumed was just sweat that had built up. I tried washing the shell with different soaps but I found it easier to scrape the problem off.
I'm starting to think that the layer of paint on the plastic was actually the problem. Whether it has gone bad or just reacted to my oils, I don't know.

I really don't want this happening to my Pyra.

Yea, I definitely agree that we don't want that happening. I think it should be possible for us to get painted cases that don't have issues like this, but I definitely understand that concern, because that would definitely not be a good thing to have happen to a gaming handheld.

Ok, so the Pyra could be used allready, but the Time its need to make this Painting /Coating dos the Pyra OS improve..

But wasnt the most fun on the Pandora after the first Massproduktion Runs this live improving of the Software? Learning how to work whit its flaws, and enyoing every Hotfix ??

Im a Pant Pocket Carryer, so the Paint needs to be pretty thought, thats way i dotnt need the Paint..

I dotnt think the Paint will be that poor like on the Pandora, so lets wait for it, on or tree weeks more or less, ...

For me, the Pyra is just a Hobby Device, a Toy whit Computer Features, i dotnt need it for my Job, its nice to have, but not neccessary..

As an early adopter of both the GP2X and the Pandora, I will agree with you that the launch is an exciting part of the experience, with all of the software coming out daily. It was really fun to see what new apps were ported and what new things I could do. However, I was talking about the base OS. Currently, afaik, the Pyra's base OS is not at the level that either the Pandora's or the GP2X's was at or before launch. If a delay due to making the rest of the product better means that the base OS will have time to mature, I think that would only help that early time w/ the Pyra to be more enjoyable.

-God Ginrai

 

[levi]

In my opinion "US International" layout was the best option, adapting it to Pyra Keyboard, as with US International you can write directly (with SAME layout, not changing) in all important European languages (and this includes languages spoken in America, Australia and other places with strong European presence).

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/KB_US-International.svg

Dear god, no! As a native english speaker who only needs accents occasionally, that looks far too confusing. How exactly am I meant to type tilde on that? Personally, I'm happier using a compose key for the occasional use it gets.

 

[Grench]

English is never a problem as it has so little "symbols" on letters or extra-letters. So this keyboard is adapted to "German and French". I think there are a lot of other western European languages with a lot of millions of speakers and we will see how good we can transform/adapt keyboard to work well with those languages.

In my opinion "US International" layout was the best option, adapting it to Pyra Keyboard, as with US International you can write directly (with SAME layout, not changing) in all important European languages (and this includes languages spoken in America, Australia and other places with strong European presence).

Of course I KNOW "It is -done-", so now we only can wait to have Pyra and adapt keyboard by software and see how good adaptation goes (with a Keyboard for German/French with its "special" characters).

PD: Daily I use 2 western languages in my computer, so I prefer to use only US Int layout, instead of changing between different layouts constantly.



Well, German and French language will be good served (English doesn't need it). We will see how all other western languages, with millions of speakers, will be served without AltGR (mapping it on other side). We will see as "it is done" (good or bad, "it is done").

If you have to use it a lot of times, pressing 2 modifiers (at same time or consecutively) will not work in good way. We will see how we adapt it.

We actually had proposed several layouts that would have been able to service any language with a Latin alphabet, but the English speakers freaked out over it.
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/c422218c5ab674611566e18b38a26b33
Those circles are diacritics related to the top level markings that trigger from the Fn+diacritic key.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/KB_US-International.svg

Dear god, no! As a native english speaker who only needs accents occasionally, that looks far too confusing. How exactly am I meant to type tilde on that? Personally, I'm happier using a compose key for the occasional use it gets.

We don't have enough keys to do that layout anyway.

 

[Djoga'Ro]

We actually had proposed several layouts that would have been able to service any language with a Latin alphabet, but the English speakers freaked out over it.

Just for a lack of empathy/surplus of arrogance, or were practical criteria involved?

 

[Grench]

Just for a lack of empathy/surplus of arrogance, or were practical criteria involved?

I do not pretend to know their true motivations, but the declared it "unusable by English speakers". I put in a link to one of that style above.

It had several interesting capabilities beyond typing. I introduced a concept of Fn+Fn=FnLock which could make the Fn layer "top" for easy access to numbers and Fn keys during games. It also utilized unmodified, shift, Fn and shift+Fn layers which bothered some people. General clutter feeling was criticized as well - was deemed too busy.

Done is done though.

 

[Djoga'Ro]

I do not pretend to know their true motivations, but the declared it "unusable by English speakers". I put in a link to one of that style above.

It had several interesting capabilities beyond typing. I introduced a concept of Fn+Fn=FnLock which could make the Fn layer "top" for easy access to numbers and Fn keys during games. It also utilized unmodified, shift, Fn and shift+Fn layers which bothered some people. General clutter feeling was criticized as well - was deemed too busy.

Done is done though.

What I actually meant by my question was, Was your proposed layout a superset of a good one for English speakers and they ruled it out for visual noice on the physical keys or were there tradeoffs?

 

[Grench]

What I actually meant by my question was, Was your proposed layout a superset of a good one for English speakers and they ruled it out for visual noice on the physical keys or were there tradeoffs?

I thought so. Just seeing foreign symbols on the Fn layer on the current/final layout has resulted in post-keyboard-discussion rants of how they won't know how to use it because of it being a German keyboard. I have talked a few of them back off of that with assurances that it will not inconvenience them.

 

[Djoga'Ro]

I thought so. Just seeing foreign symbols on the Fn layer on the current/final layout has resulted in post-keyboard-discussion rants of how they won't know how to use it because of it being a German keyboard. I have talked a few of them back off of that with assurances that it will not inconvenience them.

That's a sad testament. As if it was hard to imagine, that nobody else had need for <Y> and it would be skipped, cause having it in the layout would be to confusing. However, what's done is done.

 

[levi]

Well to be fair it's kind of what I meant when I said the US-int layout was confusing to me. I did then try to excuse myself by justifying it that I couldn't find how to press tilde, but my first impression was that it wasn't for me, I'm afraid.

 

[Djoga'Ro]

Next time, then.

 

[oskda]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/KB_US-International.svg

Dear god, no! As a native english speaker who only needs accents occasionally, that looks far too confusing. How exactly am I meant to type tilde on that? Personally, I'm happier using a compose key for the occasional use it gets.

It seems you have never used US International layout.

tilde ( ˜ or ~) is inserted in US Int layout with the same key that in US layout but adding "SPACE" so you get ~ instead of ã ẽ ĩ õ .. (you can get ñ in this way or via AltGR+n).

But a good thing about US Int is that keys and symbols in US keyboard are the same than in US Int. You can switch between them and all keys are in the same place. The only different is that in US Int RightAlt is AltGr and you can have same "dead keys" to introduce things like á ó ö ã é...

For example if you change between German layout and US or UK layout, lots of symbols keys (printed on keyboard) change (not only QWERTZ to QWERTY)

If you use English the best layout is US, much better than UK in a PC Keyboard.

But the best thing about US (international or not) layout in PC keyboard is that it is more ergonomic than European keyboard: Simply LEFT SHIFT and ENTER keys are nearer from central keyboard position, exactly one key nearer, so you can reach those keys without forcing your hands/fingers, while in European keyboard you need to force your little finger or to move your hand from central position or force your wrist.

Finally I don't want to speak about this because:

1/ Pyra keyboard is not a PC keyboard (in a PC keyboard I know which is better because I have used US/US Int and European keyboards).

2/ Pyra keyboard is done, good done or bad done, but DONE, so we have to live with it.

I simply was showing, with my previous message, Pyra keyboard is optimized for German/French (English doesn't need it as it doesn't use those extra symbols on letters), and NOT for all other western European languages with millions and millions of speakers. Contrary to that US International layout is designed so that all important western languages can use it without changing keyboard layout (for example if you manage English and 2 more western languages, you can use all them correctly with only one layout: US Int).

I don't want discussion about this. I only pointed it like a problem we will see how to address when we be using Pyra, as its keyboard layout is only optimized for 2 western languages (plus EN which doesn't need optimization), leaving all other in possible bad situation.

 

[PowerGod]

And so... here we go again

 

[pyrat]

Next time, then.

It depends on what you mean by next time. There were news (mid July'19) that ED intended to offer keyboard customization kits, so with some transparent paper, scissors, screwdriver, spare time, a printer and software tweaks everyone could have a different keyboard (with the same number of keys).

More on topic: I'd prefer a non painted case, and I'm pessimist enough to foresee delays in implementing paint, coating or whatever it is. Maybe it can cause problems with additional thickness but I really don't have a clue about that.
My reason is simple and egotistical. I don't think it makes a lot of difference, but assuming unpainted looks cheapo, it'd prefer it to be unattractive to any thieves, airport security guards, or dumb people in general. It's an expensive mobile device, anyway, and it implies risks of losing it or being stealed. So if it looks like a cheap toy nobody could possibly want, much the better to me. I'm not looking to impress people, and specially not by something I own or carry. You might argue that I can help them by letting them know something they might want exists, but I don't think creating needs helps much anyone, and I don't consider myself similar enough to the average person to be in a position to try. That's mainly because I don't intend to sell Pyras, though, so I understand ED to be exactly opposed to me (I couldn't have even conceived cerating something like the Pyra, so we're necessarily different, if he was like me the Pyra wouldn't exist). I don't care much, because I really don't think it will matter much to buyers, reviewers or thieves, anyway, because people don't look so closely.

I sympathize with whoever suggested making a more grainy texture to hide decolorisation and helping grip, but I really don't know if that's possible at all, how risky or expensive or how useful, and wothwhile it can be. I guess if it was easy it would have been tried by now.

About colors, I like black or gray. I don't like that brown, although I like the dark red renders, and I dislike the blue case for some reason.

But I see ED not liking it unpainted and ED is an optimist and Pyra is his baby, so I know it'll be painted. It's his call. We'll just trust him.

Btw, the unedited videos are good enough for me. I don't mind, perfect videos, easy videos, text or pictures. I welcome any news in any format I can consume (standards-wise, and not on privacy invading closed gardens like twitter or so).

 

[T.T.]

I'll pitch in my 2 cents. I think we should coat the cases. I'm in the same boat as many of you, where I've had cheap painted cases and the paint wears off. I've also had plenty of devices where the coating hasn't worn off yet. Someone (don't remember who) meantioned that thinkpads have a coating that comes off quite easily. For my thinkpad, which I've had for about a year now, and is certainly not treated kindly in regards to what things can scuff and rub up against it, is doing just fine with the plastic parts. In fact, the part that looks the ugliest right now is the scratched up aluminum on the lid.
In the long run, I think coated cases are probably the way to go.

 

[rygD]

With all these keyboard threads I get confused about which one I am reading.

 

[λ the β-Redex Reducer]

it'd prefer it to be unattractive to any thieves, airport security guards, or dumb people in general. It's an expensive mobile device, anyway, and it implies risks of losing it or being stealed. So if it looks like a cheap toy nobody could possibly want, much the better to me.

You've convinced me, I want it to look cheap as well!

 

[rSl]

+1 for urban camouflage

 

[Grench]

With all these keyboard threads I get confused about which one I am reading.

Would it be better if I just let the FUD questions regarding the keyboard linger and fester or to continue to try to answer them as they come up to assure everyone that what we have is good, done and doesn't suck?

 

[λ the β-Redex Reducer]

There's always .xbindkeys and .Xmodmap for the keyboard. Of course this normally does not work for Fn keys…