Gp2x Stick Replacement Petition


DaveC-- sure, the game needs to be tweaked to be playable on the stick, but should I have to comprimise the spirit of the game for everyone?

Stargazer will support this; and I intend to do just that .. plug my '2x into my TV and use a USB gamepad with a breakout box or homemade adapter. But it might be a bit inconvenient for most people to do that anytime they wanted to play any reasonable difficulty level!

No you can do what you want, it is your project. If we can play it with the standard stick great. If not there is always GnGeo... :ph34r: Then there are options. Funny you should bring up Battle squadron in your post. Notice how they have options for the number and speed of enemy bullets? You could do the same so that we can adjust it for the stick. Or not, again up to you.

All is a moot point with regards to your game anyway. Even if you convinced GPH to put in d-pads starting tomorrow there are alot of units already out so you are stuck.

BoB for gamepads? That is a joke right? I mean come on the whole idea of a portable is to be well.. portable. Can you see dragging around that big boat anchor box with a rats' nest of wires? I can't, not too practical. If you are going to do that you might as well get a cheap laptop and add a pad to that. You would also get perfect SNES and PSX too ;)
 
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Make no mistake; the GP2X is a dream handheld for me with all the specifications and nearly every feature I could hope for-- but this is a crippling problem I really need to see fixed in some capacity before I can feel as good about the machine as I should ...

Well it is all up to GPH and from what I gather from them we will get no help from them. It will be up to us to come up with something. Something like the Radek logic chip thing.

You know I could CAD up the perfect solution in a few hours. The problem is that injection molds are EXPENSIVE as fuck. So if someone wanted to put up some initial capitol for the molds (like a reseller such as Craig or Evil Dragon) it is possible. If not we are stuck with the current stick.

DaveC, tell him why the GP2X joystick and the PSP analog are not even comparable.


'Cause one is analog and the other digital ;)

I was more comparing things like stiffness, grip, etc. ;)

And I already knew that difference.


I was replying to TrollMs. I was being a smartass... ;)
 
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Make no mistake; the GP2X is a dream handheld for me with all the specifications and nearly every feature I could hope for-- but this is a crippling problem I really need to see fixed in some capacity before I can feel as good about the machine as I should ...

Well it is all up to GPH and from what I gather from them we will get no help from them. It will be up to us to come up with something. Something like the Radek logic chip thing.

That was a relatively easy part to do... once I finally found an apropriate chip.
(and learned to program it)

Well... at least GPH made that modification what you were suggesting.
So it's not that hopeless... MKIII anyone? :ph34r:
(but it'd be a riot by ones who got older units :unsure: )

You know I could CAD up the perfect solution in a few hours. The problem is that injection molds are EXPENSIVE as fuck. So if someone wanted to put up some initial capitol for the molds (like a reseller such as Craig or Evil Dragon) it is possible. If not we are stuck with the current stick.

Yeah - that's why I had to resort to a solution with heated up polymorph and drilling. I was thinking about using existing stick's bottoms as some kind of mold but it didn't work.

Would have a nice GP2x with dpad if not that stupit LCD ribbon thing...
Learning by mistakes so they say...

DaveC - perhaps it'd be a good idea to put inside stick case four small microswitches? I was trying but the ones what I could get weren't small enough (but not much). They could be glued inside and the bar could control them?
 
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DaveC - perhaps it'd be a good idea to put inside stick case four small microswitches? I was trying but the ones what I could get weren't small enough (but not much). They could be glued inside and the bar could control them?

Now that'd be an excellent solution .. you wouldn't even need to remove your stick in all likelihood, just open it up, insert a new assembly, run out some leads, solder them to the back of your board and be done with it. Perhaps there's some conductive tape or other means that could attach the leads for those not keen on soldering as well ...
 
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DaveC - perhaps it'd be a good idea to put inside stick case four small microswitches? I was trying but the ones what I could get weren't small enough (but not much). They could be glued inside and the bar could control them?

I am not keen on microswitches though. The contact band is too wide giving more impreciseness. You press to activate it and the spring clicks, then to release you need to travel pretty far to let the snap-spring pop back. It is kind of the opposite problem that we have now. Instead of a large dead zone you have a large contact zone. An opposite problem but still a problem that would make for poor controls.

Membrane and d-pad would still be best.

The only reason GPH actually did what I suggested and rotated the stick by 45 degrees is because it was an easy change. Good luck getting any more out of them, they think the stick is good. I think the stick is ok but could be better. I don't hate it but will admit that a d-pad is better. I guess the stick is not bad enough to motivate me to design a pad plus I figure since you are making one why should I bother.

How is your d-pad kit going? do you plan on releasing it soon? I see you have the logic chip board done.
 
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DaveC - perhaps it'd be a good idea to put inside stick case four small microswitches? I was trying but the ones what I could get weren't small enough (but not much). They could be glued inside and the bar could control them?

I am not keen on microswitches though. The contact band is too wide giving more impreciseness. You press to activate it and the spring clicks, then to release you need to travel pretty far to let the snap-spring pop back. It is kind of the opposite problem that we have now. Instead of a large dead zone you have a large contact zone. An opposite problem but still a problem that would make for poor controls.

Membrane and d-pad would still be best.

The only reason GPH actually did what I suggested and rotated the stick by 45 degrees is because it was an easy change. Good luck getting any more out of them, they think the stick is good.

MEMBRANE MICRO-SWITCHES,

I will post pics of the insides of the HAT switch on the CH joystick sometime, maybe in a couple weeks or so.

I still say it will be the most accurate stick possible, and it might be able to be designed around a laser cut aluminum sheet stock to hold the switches, thus saving expensive molding. I was planning on using a lathe for the stick anyway.

Could I mass produce this? Hell no! I had to sell my PC on ebay to get enough money to buy a GP2X. Luckily I have enough spare parts around to build a browsing/e-mail machine to let me load games on it :)

P.S.
Play-Asia.com $205 for a MK2 and TV-out cable, WITH UPS courier 1-4 day delivery :D

Newegg.com $51 for a 2GB 150x A-Data SD card with 3-day shipping.

My own console and Divx player by next weekend, priceless.
 
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What? When I'm excellent at a game and can beat other people's time records in it on a D-Pad and die miserably in easy areas the stick has problems. Beating world 1-1 in Super Mario Bros is sometimes even a hassle. :p Some people can adapt to horrible sticks. I can't. Most people I know can't. And a lot of users seem to just be in a state of denial when in fact I am sure it bothers them. There was a lot of that early on, too, when there was a myriad of problems that are now mostly solved. People just turned a blind eye to it, pretended they didn't exist. The same is definitely happening now.
I think the point is here : you've got to adapt to the stick, as you've got to adapt to the screen, to the game controls, etc ... Each game system is different and has its particularities that you've got to adapt to. Of course I would not say that if games were really unplayable with the gp2x stick, but I think that even if it is not as comfortable than other pads systems, it is not SO unplayable. I also totally agree that it can be difficult to beat the same high scores with a gp2x emulator than with the original system, but for me it is plain sense : as the hardware changes, the game experience can't be exactly the same , and so it is obvious that some games will be harder to beat with a different hardware than the original one (note that the contrary is also true : games can be easier to beat with a new hardware : remember how crap was the vcs2600 stick ? :D)

ps: sorry for my bad english ...
 
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*snip*

ps: sorry for my bad english ...

I didn't know (if you are foreign) that you are foreign until you said that, so I think your english is good enough =p

However, I believe he's right: if I was using a good Dpad for Noiz2sa for my huge highscore, I'm sure I could have gotten as high, if not higher, much more quickly. However I used this game so that I can get used to the stick, and I have...
 
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I really don't think the 'get used to it' logic really applies when the control stick is really just an industrial switch that was never meant for use to control a game in the first place, compared to say, adapting to the Gamecube's controller after using a Dreamcast for years.
 
DaveC - perhaps it'd be a good idea to put inside stick case four small microswitches? I was trying but the ones what I could get weren't small enough (but not much). They could be glued inside and the bar could control them?

Now that'd be an excellent solution .. you wouldn't even need to remove your stick in all likelihood, just open it up, insert a new assembly, run out some leads, solder them to the back of your board and be done with it. Perhaps there's some conductive tape or other means that could attach the leads for those not keen on soldering as well ...

The idea would look like:
micro8er.jpg


The major problem is the size of microswitches. I couldn't find smaler ones.

The rest should be easy - microswitches could be just glued inside. Wiring shouldn't be that hard either. To make a bar to act properly would more of a problem.

Center push could be supported natively by existing switch in a stick.
(and I could use DIP14 chip instead of DIP18 for a converter).

DaveC - perhaps it'd be a good idea to put inside stick case four small microswitches? I was trying but the ones what I could get weren't small enough (but not much). They could be glued inside and the bar could control them?

I am not keen on microswitches though. The contact band is too wide giving more impreciseness. You press to activate it and the spring clicks, then to release you need to travel pretty far to let the snap-spring pop back. It is kind of the opposite problem that we have now. Instead of a large dead zone you have a large contact zone. An opposite problem but still a problem that would make for poor controls.

I had been having many microswitch based joysticks for all my old computers. They worked fine but I understand someone might not like a click like behavior.

Membrane and d-pad would still be best.

But it's not the point here - if putting microswitch inside existing stick's case could be done then it'd be all relatively easy to do. No drill, not hot polymorph phase for mounting and it would an improvement for sure.

But an idea and reality sometimes aren't "compatible".

The only reason GPH actually did what I suggested and rotated the stick by 45 degrees is because it was an easy change. Good luck getting any

But it was a change - they had to change PCB documentation and there are other changes in GP2x MKII PCB design as well. They could (if they would be willing) replace a stick with something different. And a compatibility issue isn't any excuse. One extra small SMD demultiplexer would handle it. I could done three different circuits for that myself. GPH couldn't?

more out of them, they think the stick is good. I think the stick is ok but could be better. I don't hate it but will admit that a d-pad is better. I guess the stick is not bad enough to motivate me to design a pad plus I figure since you are making one why should I bother.

I think they aren't so sure about it - they rotated it after all. Perhaps it's just so common and cheap so looking for alternatives would increase costs too much?
(mounting a dpad would need change of front panel - perhaps GPH can not afford to make more radical design changes so quickly?)

How is your d-pad kit going? do you plan on releasing it soon? I see you have the logic chip board done.

Not bad except that LCD's ribbon problems what I got by my dumb mistake:
c101pl.jpg


For a relase yes - I'm going to send some full kits. Done an other PCB for some different purpose for the same person and once I get it I will send everything immediately.
(I'm outsourcing PCB manufacturing as I found a company what it can do even small series at decent prices with good quality - but I have to wait few days)

I really don't think the 'get used to it' logic really applies when the control stick is really just an industrial switch that was never meant for use to control a game in the first place, compared to say, adapting to the Gamecube's controller after using a Dreamcast for years.

Well... ALPS (the company what is manufacturing those GP2x sticks) would disagree with you as in its PDF is clearly stated:
"An excellent operational feel is achieved with uniform
application force."
(emphasis is mine)

I mercifully will not quote what is written in the "Applications" section.
 
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