Yet another pandora-sucessor concept


levi

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Hmm, I've just had a quick go at reproducing it, and it seems to happen on every new line. It doesn't print a space first time as I previously said (that must've been the odd occasion where I did hit space first), I just have to do the tab dance twice the first time I do it. After that, doing it once is enough to get a tab (or do tab completion etc.).


That works the same whether I chord the keys or rely on sticky FN. Chording FN or sticky FN works fine with other keys when getting symbols etc. I've gotten into the habit of doing the dance twice whenever I want tab completion at least, so it's really not a lot of bother.
 

patrick295767

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I fully agree that dedicated and easily reachable TAB, ESC, ALT, etc. would be great (actually neccessary since so many applications - often not remappably - bind useful functions to these). But (like on the N900) I find Ctrl-i a surprisingly useable substitute for TAB at least in the terminal.
I do agree with you too:



TAB, ESC, ALT  shall be dedicated without any Function thing

Emacs or vim ? What about Esc ;) ?

Well, for me, since long, I use jj to escape in vim
 

WizardStan

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Because ESC is on the opposite side of the keyboard, and generally isn't part of a continuous typing experience, I never had any problems being able to FN-Q. Takes me about as long to travel my two thumbs to the appropriate keys as it does to travel my finger all the way from 'F' to 'ESC' on a desktop keyboard. Maybe even less time, now that I think of it.
 

vcoleiro1

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I'd replace the USB button with a keyboard backlight button if one is not there already.
 
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comradekingu

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It isnt bad, I like it. but speakers in the screen is added complexity since you have to route the cables through the hinge, move them to the case. Also, a nice fix would be to put the minijack on the left side, since that is the side the cable is on if you have a single sided headset. Add some extra buttons too, like <> and to keys to the left of P and two to the left of L for an international twist. ÆØÅ till i die.
 
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Mr_Loon

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Some interesting thoughts and discussion here :)

When trying to find your 'ideal' keyboard it might be worth considering the responses here, based on the responses to that poll it would seem to me that P2 should have 1 row of number keys & 4 rows of other keys as per iCP2.

When considering the impact that screen aspect ratio has on overall dimensions then this might help.

As for the HDMI versus Display Port debate, from my perspective it is a 'no brainer', it has to be HDMI.

Why?

  • Far more devices accept HDMI input compared to Display port.
  • Do you really want to carry an adapter to have a good chance of using video out?
  • The licensing fees would probably add $2 per unit (for 5000 units per year), this is good value IMHO
  • If display port is so great then why are there so few devices that use it for video output even if it does not attract licence fees? Think of the GCW Zero, Laptops, Smart Phones, Tablets etc.
I strongly approve of the idea of giving the corners more rounding as I also suffer from hand cramping when using my Pandora for an extended period of time, for the same reason as shown by Fusion_Power in this post
 
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_wb_

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Why?

  • Far more devices accept HDMI input compared to Display port.
  • Do you really want to carry an adapter to have a good chance of using video out?
  • The licensing fees would probably add $2 per unit (for 5000 units per year), this is good value IMHO
  • If display port is so great then why are there so few devices that use it for video output even if it does not attract licence fees? Think of the GCW Zero, Laptops, Smart Phones, Tablets etc.
  • That might be true now, but would it remain true? Even for PC monitors and beamers?
  • This point assumes the above point
  • 5000 units per year might be doable in the first year, but after a while it will be hard to keep up such sales, and then the relative cost of licensing will increase
  • Probably because it is more recent, and in the case of smartphones the thickness would be an issue.

As far as I understand, HDMI will remain the standard for televisions and media players, while DP will be the standard for laptops and PCs. Either would be fine for me, but given that DP is technically superior and does not have licensing costs, while compatibility will not be a (big) issue, I'd prefer DP.
 

comradekingu

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DP is the better of the two though both HDMI and displayport come short on a solution of having MHL on a otg USB, infinitely more smooth. SlimPort seems promising too allthough i havent tried it.

Even USB3 DisplayLink seems better than hdmi at this point.

A USB port is good because you can do charging, communication and networking _and_ video up to a reasonable point, and beyond that its DP all the way to the max. The sweetspot of hdmi in between is shrinking.

While some of these are shared on hdmi, and done better on DP (and even thunderbolt) in practice it is a dumb port taking up space and costing money to do so. It doesnt have daisy-chaining and its falling out of fashion fast. Thinkpads have DP, Dell does too, thats the laptop market right there. Cellphones have OTG solutions. Same with tablets.

All desktop computers have DP, all desktop screens too except for the bottom end ones. New televisions have DP.

The business world uses DP exclusively, it is a VESA standard like VGA was, so it will be supported till its technically defunct and then some.

Hdmi is a bottom end product at this point, it has a foothold on that 1080p 16:9 monitor TN panel segment, and whats left of physical media. Both are going to be irrelevant by next year. The hdmi consortium even has the audacity to commence a price for it. In 2013 rolling on license fees for low ppi screens doesn't cut it.

The only upside i see to having a video-centric port seems to be soundcard data output, which i don't even know if ARM devices have.
 
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Binky

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Even USB3 DisplayLink seems better than hdmi at this point.

...

The only upside i see to having a video-centric port seems to be soundcard data output, which i dont even know if ARM devices have.
I thought dedicated video-out port (wired to dedicated video-out pins in the SOC) makes rather more efficient use of the GPU, since you don't have to run everything through the CPU to the USB port - consider the slowness of displaylink on current pandoras.
 

comradekingu

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While true, thats usb2, on a slower processor. Also it depends how high you want to go for external resolutions. What little headroom you get on hdmi is just going to be eaten up by compatibility and it costs money. Also its wasting that usb port space.

DP is the way to go if you want more than the 3 usb solutions can provide. And with MHL 2.0 that becomes esoteric.

My money is on usb3 DisplayPort (being a vesa standard) and DP if there is need for more than that. I dont know what will come of the slimport as it seems to only be a draft at this point.
 
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Mr_Loon

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If DP is so obviously superior to HDMI it does beg the question to me as to why so few laptops / tablets / phones / game systems choose to use it for output when compared to HDMI out?

You have to look beyond the tech specs with decisions like this.

I can see all the merits on paper for DP but in the real world I have 3 devices that accept HDMI input and 0 devices that accept Display port in. I doubt that this is an unusual state of affairs.

___________________________

@ Binky :

Overall I like the design, clean looking with pleasant curves, but the keyboard layout is an absolute shocker, let's save that discussion for another thread ;) It's appreciated that this is about the concept not the design and that it won't help to get too bogged down with details.

I've got a few questions :

What sort of hinge design are you looking at for your concept?

Could you do a little sketch to show how you would fit in the speakers + wires as well as the hinge?

What size speakers do you anticipate being able to use?

What use would the second enter button serve (can't think of any old PC games that needed 2 enter buttons)?

What sort of battery size (dimensions & capacity) would you propose to use? 

Do you have any thoughts as to hardware specs, SOC, screen resolution , nand size etc?

Also please feel free to use anything I suggested in this thread. If you like the idea of a kickstand, including a tripod connector, leds in the gaming buttons, making the base compatible with 3D printing, making the rounded grips removable etc. then feel free to add it to your concept.
 
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_wb_

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If DP is so obviously superior to HDMI it does beg the question to me as to why so few laptops / tablets / phones / game systems choose to use it for output when compared to HDMI out?
Mostly because HDMI got a head start of 4-7 years....

DisplayPort:

The first version, 1.0, was approved by VESA on May 3, 2006.[3] Version 1.1a was approved on April 2, 2007[4] followed by the current standard 1.2 on December 22, 2009.[5]

Mini DisplayPort (mDP) is a standard announced by Apple in the fourth quarter of 2008. Shortly after announcing the Mini DisplayPort, Apple announced that it would license the connector technology with no fee. The following year, in early 2009, VESA announced that Mini DisplayPort would be included in the upcoming DisplayPort 1.2 specification.

HDMI 1.0 was released December 9, 2002.

According to In-Stat, the number of HDMI devices sold was 5 million in 2004, 17.4 million in 2005, 63 million in 2006, and 143 million in 2007

I wouldn't worry about DP not becoming the next de-facto standard though. VESA support by itself means a lot, and also:

The following companies have participated in preparing the drafts of DisplayPort, eDP, iDP, or DDM standards:



The following companies have additionally announced their intention to implement DisplayPort, eDP or iDP:


 

WizardStan

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If DP is so obviously superior to HDMI it does beg the question to me as to why so few laptops / tablets / phones / game systems choose to use it for output when compared to HDMI out?
If betamax is so obviously superior to VHS...If HDDVD is so obviously superior to Blu-Ray...

If chocolate chip cookies are so obviously superior to oatmeal raisin...

Marketing.
 

Mr_Loon

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@ _wb_ : The above is all very well, but the most common use I'd anticipate for video out would be to connect to a TV, can you link to a single TV that accepts display port in? How many devices do you own that accept HDMI in, how many with Display Port in?

@ Wizard Stan : Agreed, but it would be folly to support the 'better' format (Betamax / HDDVD or for this example Display port) if the market has decided not to do so.
 

Exophase

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If HDDVD is so obviously superior to Blu-Ray...
Was it? I wonder if people think so merely because it was the underdog that got pushed out of the market. http://www.mediacollege.com/video/format/compare/bluray-hddvd.html Seems like it's almost a wash.

Not that you don't have a point. Although you lost me with the cookie comparison, I like oatmeal raisin way more than chocolate chip but this is a minority opinion and chocolate chip is easily the "market winner" ;p

I agree with Mr_Loon too, market support is very important. Although in this case it doesn't matter much if you can use a cheap adapter for interoperability.
 
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comradekingu

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My tv does DP, my computer screens. Cellphone does otg MHL.

My nintendo wii and pandora dont do hdmi.

I feel this is the full dvi vs vga all over again, just carry the adapter and let the world move on.

DP didnt get pushed out, it arrived late, meanwhile everybody and their dog was cursing DHCP

DP is still winning where it matters. They did this with a more open standard, better backing, better technology, doesn't need new cables every year, and of course, is royalty free.

Edit: it isnt that DP is a must, its that hdmi is a big _must not_ over usb solutions.
 
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