Why Wait For Gp3x? Great $ Making Opportunity - Let Us Invest In

[rememberthe8bit]

Why do we need better hardware?

The GP2X does exactally what I need, if I had of wanted 3D acceleration I would have got a PSP or DS. One of the things I love about the GP2X is just how much the wonderful developers, like Squidge et al, get out of this little machine. I reckon what we need is not better machines but to support oue developers in what the do. So they can continue to do what they are already doing, pushing the GP2X to its limits and beyond.

The problem with the computer industry today is that everyone is addicted to upgrading and having the latest and greatest without consideration for the social and enviromental consequences.

My 3c worth

Exactly. I really think that the GP2X is just fine for most of the things that people want it to do. I can't wait to see what new tricks people use to make things run faster. There's got to be a whole mess of tricks to figure out. Too bad the MagicEyes people don't publish their speed-up tricks. At least I think that they have some optimizations.

Q: People seem to think MagicEyes is pretty shady, as they have yet to release to the full documentation as according to the GPL
for the MMSP2 I mean
A: well -- i have it complete
since i've signed NDA and official developer...
...i also got MP2530F board...
...i've got pretty neat documentation, much deeper than you can find online
...complete 3d info, complete video processor. sharing bus tricks and many others...
that's why i said -- it's possible to port freedo to gp2x...
i cannot share this info though... only use it

Though, what he says could all just be BS as well... :rolleyes: Anyway, long live the GP2X!

 

[RockOut]

I've heard the claim that graphics don't matter over and over, but isn't that like shooting yourself in the foot? Why get rid of any fancy graphics because it is supposedly "better" without them? I say we need a dedicated 3d processor and output for surround sound through a fiber cable. The GP32 was fine, the GP2X is great, but that doesn't mean that development should stop there.

 

[Squidge]

Who knows, whats happening out there in Korea?

Well, we could assume that GPH have decided to emulate GamePark and go bankrupt

(Note to insane quoter's: The above is a comment, not a rumour, or fact)

QUOTE

QUOTE
i've got pretty neat documentation, much deeper than you can find online

Though, what he says could all just be BS as well


Nah, thats not BS, there is plenty of docs available for registered developers (ie. devs who have paid $$$$$ to MagicEyes).

QUOTE

that's why i said -- it's possible to port freedo to gp2x...



I still think there's some BS in that however (Well, not the "possible to port", but the "possible to port at a playable speed").

 

[poodle]

I've heard the claim that graphics don't matter over and over, but isn't that like shooting yourself in the foot? Why get rid of any fancy graphics because it is supposedly "better" without them? I say we need a dedicated 3d processor and output for surround sound through a fiber cable. The GP32 was fine, the GP2X is great, but that doesn't mean that development should stop there.

I'm not opposed to 3d graphics myself, but I think the idea here is that not having things like super fancy graphics and a Bose digital sound system means that for games to be really entertaining and fun, they must have solid content.

I'd like to see more x86 and windows type of support, simply because the majority of development is done on these platforms.

 

[scientist]

btw - id much rather invest in an official d-pad mod for the gp2x, than for a new unit altogether.

 

[herr_prof]

http://wiki.virtualcogs.com/tiki-view_blog.php?blogId=1

Has anyone seen this? very neat

 

[Exophase]

The thing that bugs me about the nano/pico-ITX boards are that they're actually pretty thick. I don't think it even gives depth specifications but I'd say it's got to be about 2cm. After you add screen, controls, and battery on top of that it's going to be much thicker than any current handheld I can think of.

xnopasaranx; I don't think any Magic Eyes boards come with FPUs. The thing I don't like about the ME boards is that their model consists of throwing as many chips at something as possible. They're extremely redundant and a lot of the features will never be used by anyone anyway (especially the ones they make you sign up for information on), therefore probably not the most power/heat or cost effective designs. At the same time, you don't really get some features which benefit gaming in the MMSP/+ versions (like any real audio acceleration), but then you don't get some important things in the Vrender series either. Sadly they're probably one of the only practical routes you can take, if the only one...

Let's face it, this is what this kind of community really wants:

- High clock ARM v5+ CPU (something like OMAP3 might be nice) and a lot of/high quality L1 cache, some L2 cache is an added bonus. And no TCM at the expense of cache, no one wants to program for that, having to manage your own tiny scratchpad space is unbearable for most programs and ends up being a lot less efficient than cache most of the time anyway.
- FPU coprocessor, VFPU would be nice too. Both are available as standard ARM coprocessors, surely someone makes a CPU that fits all of this.
- Fast memory bus and 64MB of RAM - more than that is probably not that important.
- Simple but robust 3D accelerator, that'll handle all of the 2D acceleration needs. Something like the Intel 2700G would be a good choice (except that particular one has been discontinued)... the problem here is getting something with Linux drivers too. nVidia Goforce might be a good route.
- Straightforward audio accelerator (32 voice wavetable synth?)
- Good controls.. especially a good d-pad, a sturdy circular d-pad would be nice... and 4 face buttons that aren't a perfect diamond but are more horizontally spaced (like SNES)

And of course all the other basic standard stuff that people would expect. None of this stuff like secondary CPUs, hardware video encoding/decoding (the CPU/memory ought to be fast enough to handle decoding, no one cares about encoding)

http://wiki.virtualcogs.com/tiki-view_blog.php?blogId=1

Has anyone seen this? very neat



Have you seen the price of those components? Outrageous.

 

[ketchupgun]

If you're at all serious about this, and have to saavy to write proper business proposals, perhaps this may be a good place to look for inventment capital.

 

[A_SN]

Using a x86 system to build a handheld? Seriously, guys you have to be kidding.

Have you ever considered the energy consumption? Even if the CPU would consume as low as 6-8watts (which is fairly realistial for lower clocked VIA cpus)

STFU n00b

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geode_(processor)



For those too lazy to read that, it's more like 0.8W

Why do we need better hardware?

Oh shut up. If you were a dev you wouldn't say that crap. You think it's funny to code everything in fixed point arithmetic rather than float?

 

[Squidge]

The only reason we use fixed point now instead of float is simply because floating point is so slow (due to no dedicated FPU). However, if the new hardware had built in 3D hardware, then would become less of an issue.

 

[___]

I don't get why all the people go "Well I think then the gp2x is the wrong platform for you blablabla bullcrap yadda yadda" if you mention that building another system would be cool.

That is not the point! I do not specifically want to replace my gp2x with some monster hardware killer machine. But think of it as a homebrew project. How cool would it be to assemble your own handheld gaming machine? I think it would be great and real good fun.

 

[semyaza]

If you reckon you can get me all that for £120 let me know. That's the price for a PSP at play.com at the moment. Otherwise the answer has been posted with regards to virtual cogs. Now a solar panel mod would be great.

I would be more interested in projects to mod the existing gp2x. There's talk of adding a touch screen. That would be a cool mod. If it is possible to fit a good gpu then that would also be great. But I for one am not willing to part with any cash for a mythical machine. As far as I remember the Gizmondo specs were excellent...where is that now? I can't see any 'great $ making opportunity' here. That's what I see in my spam box all the time.

 

[tarun]

http://wiki.virtualcogs.com/tiki-view_blog.php?blogId=1

Has anyone seen this? very neat



Have you seen the price of those components? Outrageous.


Hi Exophase.

My name is Tarun and I am from Virtual Cogs Embedded Systems.

I agree -- for a consumer/mass item it is expensive. We never intended to produce these boards -- the project was originally meant as just as demostration of some of our other products. A huge number of interested people contacted us as they have projects they want to work them into so we decided to make a few for them.

If a project like is discussed here moves forward, we would be interested in working with community in developing something. As soon as the quantities go up, the costs come crashing down with it. You have to understand its VERY expensive building just a few of these things -- electronics aren't cheap.

-Tarun

 

[Squidge]

I agree, if you "de-modularised" the system, it could become much cheaper as quantities increase, but as a replace to a GP2X, I think you'll need more than 266MHZ. Is it possible to upgrade the main processor?

 

[Exophase]

I'm with Squidge - the number one things people will want out of a new platform is a much faster CPU (with FPU would definitely be good, VFPU even better), fast RAM, sophisticated/useful accelerated video hardware (audio doesn't hurt either) and then basically something with as few obvious design flaws as possible. Things like touchscreen, microphone, and various other add ons are nice but they simply won't sell a platform to a target audience like this (and I doubt they'll sell to others because that area is so well represented by other companies, just look at Nokia's touchpad devices.. although having good gaming controls would give you an edge it's pretty easy to fail there, as Zodiac demonstrated)

What people want on GP2X, and by extension what they'll want on any newer platform, is a strong emulation and gaming platform, any other software is almost completely overshadowed. For these things you need power, and a lot of it (and good controls).

 

[Alex.]

Wouldn't a 266Mhz processor be enough when coupled with a FPU and solid (2D) graphics acceleration? The higher the Mhz, the lesser the battery life. Something above 300Mhz would likely no longer be able to run on AAs, which are a very attractive part of the GP2X for a lot of people.

 

[predatorramboxxx]

UMMM guys there is a thing called a dell axim v51. It has a 600mhz processor and 3d card touchscreen and can you can many mods for controllers and etc and has usb. You can also flash linux on it or you can leave windows mobile on it. It has camera gps mic and much more. to bad dell is not selling them anymore but you can buy them anywhere online. :]
also does anyone know anythng about the chinese company shanda whic makes one station.

 

[Sphinxter]

UMMM guys there is a thing called a dell axim v51. It has a 600mhz processor and 3d card touchscreen and can you can many mods for controllers and etc and has usb. You can also flash linux on it or you can leave windows mobile on it. It has camera gps mic and much more. to bad dell is not selling them anymore but you can buy them anywhere online. :]
also does anyone know anythng about the chinese company shanda whic makes one station.

Sad story
http://direct2dell.com/one2one/archive/2007/04/11/11397.aspx

 

[predatorramboxxx]

UMMM guys there is a thing called a dell axim v51. It has a 600mhz processor and 3d card touchscreen and can you can many mods for controllers and etc and has usb. You can also flash linux on it or you can leave windows mobile on it. It has camera gps mic and much more. to bad dell is not selling them anymore but you can buy them anywhere online. :]
also does anyone know anythng about the chinese company shanda whic makes one station.

Sad story
http://direct2dell.com/one2one/archive/2007/04/11/11397.aspx

will there not selling them but supporting them and selliong tons of acceosries. there are multiple places to buy them still

 

[Exophase]

Wouldn't a 266Mhz processor be enough when coupled with a FPU and solid (2D) graphics acceleration? The higher the Mhz, the lesser the battery life. Something above 300Mhz would likely no longer be able to run on AAs, which are a very attractive part of the GP2X for a lot of people.

A lot of people also don't want to run AA batteries on a handheld device, and I'm sure whatever succeeds GP2X will be using a more modern solution. AA's are a pain, you have to constantly swap them out and charge them. Unless the device has a charger, of course.