So we aggree, that some browser, some media player, java, midi, synaptic and one nice looking but basic desktop environment would be good to have from the start for most customers?
Would only have to aggree on which ones then and if they should be shipped or installable via simple script in form of what Askarus mentioned again in the last post.
No OfficeSuite at all? I thought, that it partly defines this system and lets it stand out, so maybe would be good to have it from the very beginning?
Nope - we don't agree at all on installing default bloatwear on the device. The only things it needs are the OS, a DE (XFCE) and a package manager. Anything beyond that is bloat - and you deciding what someone else will be stuck with forever - as uninstalls never seem to work properly.
No OfficeSuite at all? I thought, that it partly defines this system and lets it stand out, so maybe would be good to have it from the very beginning?
If one can be installed easily enough from a software repository I see no reason to bundle it on the firmware by default.. many users don't need an office suite on a handheld.. so make it optional..
The base install should be minimal, but capable enough to do normal tasks.. the rest can be installed from a repo, package manager or whatever by the user..
The base install should have Debian Stable or Testing (if we have to), XFCE and a package manager. Maybe a readme.txt file on the default desktop to tell new users what a package manager is - but that's it. If someone was smart enough to get online to buy this device - they're smart enough to know which browser they like. They likely already have a favorite audio player, etc. Doing force stuff onto the device.
For me it's very important to make it user friendly for new users.
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It's good to offer some stuff right after startup for new users to use the system without needing to mess around with synaptic package management.
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Imagine you're new to Linux (really new) and don't know any package, the synaptic won't help any further.
You can look for media player but will get so many results that you'll be confused at first.
It's not like on Pandora.
In the Pandora repo you don't have thousands of packages.
You have about 10 Media players and 5-10 browsers.
You can test all of them.
Debian's weakness for new users is that there are so many packages to get lost.
My suggestion:
Make an installer script which gives different options:
1: Install media suit
2: Install Office suit
3: Install Graphic suit
4: Install Network suit
5: Install whateveryoulikerandomstuff
I think everyone can set up an internet connection via network manager and launch the script.
Alternative:
Also we could ship all those packages as we have enough space on the NAND.
The user can select which packages he wants to install.
Rest will be deleted after first boot wizard.
Advantage is that no internet connection is required.
Disadvantage is that the shipped packages will be outdated after some time and that a full flash image would be pretty big (of course we could offer a small one as well).
I would go for the script as I think setting up an internet connection via Networkmanager should be possible for everyone.
Ahh - the poor noobs again with too many choices so they get confused... Wrong way to look at it. Celebrate the choices.
The install scripts sound promising - but still limited by their very nature.
If you ship the entire repository, or even a large chunk of it, in NAND, it will make OS images and installs painfully slow.
I would go for the script as I think setting up an internet connection via Networkmanager should be possible for everyone.
I am strongly against having to set up an internet connection first,
the option with the prepackaged stuff available for install in the first run is good and later reflashing out of various reasons could be done with a firmware image that is free of any programs if someone wants it that way, as you mentioned already.
You have to on the Pandora as well.
Don't think it's a problem.
Sorry when this was mentioned elsewhere but: How big is the nand?
8, 16 or 32 GB.
EvilDragon didn't decide yet (or it's nothing I can tell right now)
I hope for 32GB.
So if we ship with 2GB of .deb packages and delete the ones which won't be installed it will easily fir.
Only problem I see is that it'll be outdated pretty soon and we'd have to send new flash SD-cards to Global Components every few weeks.
Also flashing might take a lot longer and I don't know if this wouldn't cost extra.
Global Components would probably appreciate it if the flash SD-cards had small images on them too - so the device flashes quicker.
I think: absolute bare base image. At first start make a dialog pop up. This dialog would let you decide between different programs or no program for important tasks to install. So it might ask "Webbrowser?" and give you the most popular web browsers to choose from (None, Firefox, Chromium, some others), maybe even with pro/contra information. Then it would go on to the next task. Listening to music, opening pdfs, watching videos, editing documents, etc. If there is an internet connection at that point it will install them right away, otherwise it installs the packages as soon as there is an internet connection.
For people who don't want to connect their Pyra to the internet (why?!?) it could generate little binaries for Linux/Windows/OSX and save them to SD. Those binaries can run on a computer with internet access and download the necessary packages. Then you enter the SD into the Pandora, it auto detects there are packages to install on that SD and asks the user about whether to do it now.
If you're going to do that, then have a decision tree for it.
Q1: Do you want to use the package selection wizard (suggested for new users)? Y/N
If N, dump directly to XFCE with a package manager and just the utilities to run the hardware itself.
if Y, then Q2.
Q2: Which web browser(s) would you like to use?
(Use radio buttons, list the top 5 or so browsers AND offer two choices - install or skip/none.)
Offer skip/none on each of the configuration lines.
For people who don't want to connect their Pyra to the internet (they may exist), offer instructions on how to download a complete Pyra OS and Debian ARM repository image to SD card or USB device. Then they need to change the package sources to the local media and they can have a fully functioning Pandora that has never connected to the internet.
At that stage I wouldn't worry too much about auto-detecting packages to install from the SD - better if it doesn't as it's possible for someone to put the whole Debian repository in SD1.
