Release Wars - public test

[bzar]

I would like to delete the map "bugtest", but I can't

Yeah, I haven't really had any use for map deleting thus far, but I can delete them for you for now.

Oh and I would also like to know how healing is calculated.

+20 health every turn you spend in a tile that can heal the unit. Max health is 100.

- My new map "Tournament Island" somehow shows up as an 8 player map

and I even see one 10 player map. How did you manage that?

- Creating a game with a "-" in the name creates an error page (other special characters, too I assume)

Couldn't reproduce. What name did you use?

- you cannot leave a game that has not started yet (or at least there does not seem to be an obvious way)

Unjoin was actually the next feature I was about to implement before starting on the gamenode rewrite. You can be sure it will be in it. Not really comfortable with using time adding features to a piece that I intend to make obsolete instead of making the better version.

- you can start a game although you are not "host" (aka first player) --> games should start after all players have joined automatically

I'm confused, what would this solve?

How exactly do beaches work? Can Solders enter the water through them? How far can they swim out? (too lazy to test that out, but probably should be mentioned in the manual)

Beaches are tiles that both land and water units can move on, so they can be used to load units to transport ships or make "shallows" in maps that act kinda like bridges.

 

[foxblock]

Thanks for the info

- you can start a game although you are not "host" (aka first player) --> games should start after all players have joined automatically

I'm confused, what would this solve?

Well for one being able to start the game as any player you can mess up games that are still supposed to wait for players.


And starting the game automatically is actually unnecessary as then the first player has to move first anyway, so that would not help if that person is afk. So disregard that.

 

[bzar]

^ OK, so the starting by host only would be just for avoiding misunderstandings? Guess that's enough a reason .


I may make a small (no new features) update to the current implementation of wars at some point if I find the time to fix stuff like this. I have a small-ish task for panorama in the pipeline and I've been coding wars-gamenode like a madman .

 

[foxblock]

I would also love to see an "invite" feature, so you can actually create a private game and send players a notification/invite to the game.


That would probably involve sending a mail (with an option to disable that on the profile page) and placing a link to the game on the home page in the same manner as running games (just in a new category).


IRC/IM is a nice way to communicate with players, but you don't have access to it all the time and having it in-game would be more comfortable.

 

[Blue Protoman]

And a way to ping other players (with an audible sound) or force an e-mail to remind them that it's their go.

 

[moz]

and I even see one 10 player map. How did you manage that?

I made one of those somehow, it counted the grey 'spawn points' (for lack of better name) as other players, must be a bug. :blink:

 

[bzar]

I would also love to see an "invite" feature, so you can actually create a private game and send players a notification/invite to the game.


That would probably involve sending a mail (with an option to disable that on the profile page) and placing a link to the game on the home page in the same manner as running games (just in a new category).


IRC/IM is a nice way to communicate with players, but you don't have access to it all the time and having it in-game would be more comfortable.

Agreed. I'd like to make the game more self-sufficient like this. Also I think adding a general chat (with no chat log) to the home screen would be a good idea.

And a way to ping other players (with an audible sound) or force an e-mail to remind them that it's their go.

The audible ping, of course only works if the user has his speakers on . But it's not hard to implement... to the gamenode version . A secondary reminder email sent by the other players is something we've thought about as well.


In general, to make the terms I use clear:


wars-django: The currently running version of Wars. Based on Django (dynamic HTML), Orbited (currently down) and static JS/CSS.


wars-gamenode: The next version of Wars. A complete rewrite of the server and near-complete rewrite of the client (the game code stays almost the same). Based on static HTML/JS/CSS and Gamenode.


gamenode: A communications framework built on top of socket.io, that offers RMI, easy server deployment and some nice helper modules.

 

[fusion_power]

Ok, now I finaly can post in this Forum.


I haven't followed this "Wars" project here, I guess it plays only over the Website at the moment or how does this entire Thing work? ^^


I love Advance Wars, also made some little maps for it (and one good map at least XD ) so I think I could like this game here. Maybe the graphics could need an overhaul but when it plays like AW then it's fine for me.


Is it Multi Player only or does it have bots? And does it already run on any Pandora Browser?

 

[bzar]

It's a browser game. Future versions may make it easier to make a native client, though.


Switch to the "Pixel" theme if you're using the default, it's a bit nicer . It plays a little different from advance wars in few aspects. This is mainly to make it work better in larger, longer games. Advance wars is more of a rush tactics game, while wars tends to lean toward a territorial strategy game. Few things you'll notice quick are the revised capture point system and deployable artilleries.


Multiplayer only for now, I've considered adding support for bots in some future version, but it's not the simplest thing to add . You can play against yourself to practice. Works in most of pandora's browsers. Best in chromium.

 

[fusion_power]

I hope there will be bots some day, maybe you can use existing bots or so? Is there something like a "open AI" project out there? ^^


From the Screenshots I would prefer the more Pixel Art raphics by the way. Is the tileset available? Maybe I could play around with Photoshop some day.


I remember a stone old abandoned GP2X "AW"project that had nice GFX, maybe you can ask the author for using it?


http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?/topic/42250-my-advance-wars-game/


Edit: ah, I found the graphics in the GIT. Nice to have one single tile sheet. Seems the tiles and sprites are not animated yet; are animations are supported in the game actualy? However I really prefer the cute Pixel Art Theme. ^^


Haven't registered yet to play the game but tomorrow I test it out, at least against me. I doubt I could wait hours or so for an opponent move, I need instant action I even disabled all time consuming effects in Advance Wars but your game don't have all these fight cut scenes and detailed enemy movements in, which is already an advantage. Yes im extremely impatient to be honest at least when it's not my own turn. XD

 

[bzar]

I hope there will be bots some day, maybe you can use existing bots or so? Is there something like a "open AI" project out there? ^^

I don't know how that would work. AI (as it currently exists) needs to be either designed for a specific game (basically an algorithm that plays the game), or taught (neural net, a lot harder). There's no drop-in AI AFAIK.

From the Screenshots I would prefer the more Pixel Art raphics by the way. Is the tileset available? Maybe I could play around with Photoshop some day.


I remember a stone old abandoned GP2X "AW"project that had nice GFX, maybe you can ask the author for using it?


http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?/topic/42250-my-advance-wars-game/

I welcome any themes, but I'd rather wait until the next version (wars-gamenode) to ask for them, since that version should actually be release quality stuff. The currently running version (wars-django) doesn't scale that well and I wouldn't want people's trouble go for nothing. I'm coding as fast as I can!

Edit: ah, I found the graphics in the GIT. Nice to have one single tile sheet. Seems the tiles and sprites are not animated yet; are animations are supported in the game actualy? However I really prefer the cute Pixel Art Theme. ^^

Note that there are also individual tiles. Those are for the website and are required for showing build menus and manual. The way I do it, I draw the tiles in the individual images, then use the sprite sheet creation python script I've included with each theme to make the sprite sheet. No support for animations at this time, probably won't be in the web client to keep the power requirements low. Currently the canvas only updates when stuff happens, so scrolling etc are smooth even on less powerful gadgets. Animations would require redrawing the canvas at intervals, which could quickly become a heavy operation in bigger maps. If there will be a native client some day, though, It will probably have animation support.

Haven't registered yet to play the game but tomorrow I test it out, at least against me. I doubt I could wait hours or so for an opponent move, I need instant action I even disabled all time consuming effects in Advance Wars but your game don't have all these fight cut scenes and detailed enemy movements in, which is already an advantage. Yes im extremely impatient to be honest at least when it's not my own turn. XD

Then you need an opponent just as impatient, and ready to sit through the game. I have one game going where I sometimes wait for 6 days for my turn. The map is huge and we have a turn timeout of 48 hours.

 

[fusion_power]

I have one game going where I sometimes wait for 6 days for my turn. The map is huge and we have a turn timeout of 48 hours.

Wow, you are a patient man.


Are the enemy moevement steps recorded unit-by-unit so you can replay his entire movement for better tactic analysis and overview? Or do his finished moves just stay completed in the map when you visit the next time?


EDIT:


Problems!


It doesn't work in Opera.


In the game screen, there is no map, only the info windows like players, funds... and yes I deactivated every popup blocker. Hm, I had problems with javascript windows in the past, I wonder if this is related... However, in Firefox it works.


But bigger problem is, how can I go back to this game window? There is no button for in the main menu, just creating new game n stuff. When I leave the game window, its gone.


Edit2: is there at least visible movement possible? Units just teleport over the map instead of moving, this really confuses me. ^^"


Already suggestion: make unit descriptions optional with mouse over or so, like in AW. Really helps to keep the overview for beginners.


Edit3: after playing a little against myself (I won XD) I noticed, that unit healing is a little bit slow, at least in the fort imho.


I can't split my movement if there are moves left. "wait" is the only option and ends the turn for the unit so moves left just can't be used. I would prefer a optional movement till the last move a unit has.


APCs only can deploy one unit per turn, I would prefer all units deployable in one turn.


Additional indication if there are still movable units left on the map before you hit "end turn", really helpful on bigger maps IMHO


Is there a "undo" option when accidently made the wrong move?


Joining equal units would be also nice. Tank with 4 lives and tank with 5 lives give 1 tank with 9 lives.


I guess I've spotted a bug: when movina a unit over a APC and attacking a enemy unit from this spot, the unit vanishes after 1 round or so.


I also noticed that in the Editor, there are no "T"-Water pieces for river T-"junctions". ^^ Makes it hard to rebuild my AW-Map I made once. Some kind of Bridge road tile would be also nice.

 

[bzar]

Wow, you are a patient man.


Are the enemy moevement steps recorded unit-by-unit so you can replay his entire movement for better tactic analysis and overview? Or do his finished moves just stay completed in the map when you visit the next time?

They are not recorded. This was considered at one point, and feasible (work-wise with the amount of available free time) solutions were either too CPU or disk space heavy, so the feature was dropped for now.

EDIT:


Problems!


It doesn't work in Opera.


In the game screen, there is no map, only the info windows like players, funds... and yes I deactivated every popup blocker. Hm, I had problems with javascript windows in the past, I wonder if this is related... However, in Firefox it works.

Sounds like you're not connected to the game server. Another user bumped into this when running opera in firefox mode. Got it working after disabling that.

But bigger problem is, how can I go back to this game window? There is no button for in the main menu, just creating new game n stuff. When I leave the game window, its gone.

Check the home screen for a list of your games.

Edit2: is there at least visible movement possible? Units just teleport over the map instead of moving, this really confuses me. ^^"

Currently no. This would require rewriting the client from a whole new perspective. You get used to it. Movement path gives no actual useful information with the current game mechanics.

Already suggestion: make unit descriptions optional with mouse over or so, like in AW. Really helps to keep the overview for beginners.

Considered, didn't implement because no good way to implement it so that it would work on all of the target devices nicely was found.

Edit3: after playing a little against myself (I won XD) I noticed, that unit healing is a little bit slow, at least in the fort imho.

This is a game balancing decision. Defensive forces would gain too much advantage with faster healing. Having just the forts heal infantry quicker is an option I'm considering though.

I can't split my movement if there are moves left. "wait" is the only option and ends the turn for the unit so moves left just can't be used. I would prefer a optional movement till the last move a unit has.

Game mechanic decision. Makes you plan your movements and rewards good logistics skills.

APCs only can deploy one unit per turn, I would prefer all units deployable in one turn.

This was actually because of a UI problem. Might get changed in a future version.

Additional indication if there are still movable units left on the map before you hit "end turn", really helpful on bigger maps IMHO

Could be. Might implement to a future version.

Is there a "undo" option when accidently made the wrong move?

No. One has been planned many times but the planned implementation has always had some major downside or corner case where it wouldn't work right. Might add someday if this is resolved.

Joining equal units would be also nice. Tank with 4 lives and tank with 5 lives give 1 tank with 9 lives.

Game mechanic decision. Having both high and low health units in the field brings heterogenity to the field and adds depth to the tactics. I understand why this was implemented in Advance Wars, since it's desinged more for rush tactics than longer games.

I guess I've spotted a bug: when movina a unit over a APC and attacking a enemy unit from this spot, the unit vanishes after 1 round or so.

Noticed the same thing last week in a game actually . This happens with all carrier units. Needs to get fixed.

I also noticed that in the Editor, there are no "T"-Water pieces for river T-"junctions". ^^ Makes it hard to rebuild my AW-Map I made once. Some kind of Bridge road tile would be also nice.

This is actually just me being lazy to add art

 

[fusion_power]

Sounds like you're not connected to the game server. Another user bumped into this when running opera in firefox mode. Got it working after disabling that.

the rest works. Opera is not masked as Firefox or anything. I also had empty javascript popup windows in a german online TV magazine, since the last Opera Versions or so, never get this working again since then. Maybe this is releated.

Currently no. This would require rewriting the client from a whole new perspective. You get used to it. Movement path gives no actual useful information with the current game mechanics.

Ouch, that hurts. ^^"" Yes, I'm to Spoilt I thought this was easy because "internal" movement must happen, displayed or not, I guess. Tracking this and displaying it on screen is not easy?

Game mechanic decision. Having both high and low health units in the field brings heterogenity to the field and adds depth to the tactics. I understand why this was implemented in Advance Wars, since it's desinged more for rush tactics than longer games.

I would like it for "cleaning up" the Battlefield a bit when to many units are involved. And yes, I hate long fights.

This is actually just me being lazy to add art

ok. ^^ You can check my (untested yet) Map I made: "Criss Cross" then you know what's missing. Oh, instead of placing every "corner" tiles per hand, would be a "Smart Editor" possible that draws automaticly corners, junctions 'n stuff depending on how you move the road/water brush? (Yes, like in AW Editor actualy)


Another Question because I didn't know a good strategical Fort-Placement: The forts are actualy only a defens bonus thing for Infantry, right?


And one thing I currently miss: a HQ, your main base or something like this. Capturing this automaticly let you win the game, even if there are still enemy units left. Saves time in the endgame content because it can take ages to destroy every enemy unit, even when you are clearly on the winning site.


I know that you included the surrender button for this but you can be sure, I never surrender, I fight till the last unit, even if you need ages to kill it. So I really recommend to make some Headquarter for a clear and fast victory. ^^

 

[bzar]

the rest works. Opera is not masked as Firefox or anything. I also had empty javascript popup windows in a german online TV magazine, since the last Opera Versions or so, never get this working again since then. Maybe this is releated.

Could be related. I don't use opera myself and others have reported it working so no idea what causes this for you.

Ouch, that hurts. ^^"" Yes, I'm to Spoilt I thought this was easy because "internal" movement must happen, displayed or not, I guess. Tracking this and displaying it on screen is not easy?

Yes, and the pathfinding algorithm even returns the path the unit takes to the view, but the actual animation was never implemented. There were performance and UI state concerns, also priorities. It can be done and it's not hard, just making it work buglessly and so it looks good takes time from more important stuff. We (currently I) only have so much free time, so the best thing to do is to use it working on stuff that brings the greatest benefits.

I would like it for "cleaning up" the Battlefield a bit when to many units are involved. And yes, I hate long fights.

I understand. It's a conscious decision to leave that feature out, however. You use your units differently with different health levels. This creates more interesting tactival situations

ok. ^^ You can check my (untested yet) Map I made: "Criss Cross" then you know what's missing. Oh, instead of placing every "corner" tiles per hand, would be a "Smart Editor" possible that draws automaticly corners, junctions 'n stuff depending on how you move the road/water brush? (Yes, like in AW Editor actualy)

I know the piece, run into needing it mu self a few times . I've also thought about the smarter editor you speak of, but that's a whole other ordeal itself

Another Question because I didn't know a good strategical Fort-Placement: The forts are actualy only a defens bonus thing for Infantry, right?

They give the biggest bonus for infantry and also heal them, but they give as much cover as a forest (20) for vehicles as well.

And one thing I currently miss: a HQ, your main base or something like this. Capturing this automaticly let you win the game, even if there are still enemy units left. Saves time in the endgame content because it can take ages to destroy every enemy unit, even when you are clearly on the winning site.


I know that you included the surrender button for this but you can be sure, I never surrender, I fight till the last unit, even if you need ages to kill it. So I really recommend to make some Headquarter for a clear and fast victory. ^^

A possibility at some point


Mainly, these things take time to make and I have to prioritize a lot. I usually end up making what I think is needed the most, because hey, it's my free time . Anyway I love discussing stuff like this and I do implement some of the stuff suggested when I get around to it, so thanks for the feedback .

 

[fusion_power]

I only give input, feel free to use it or not


I tested the game in Midori and Firefox 5 on my Pandora. Besides some Browser crashes it works but it is not really playable. The Map window is to big and can't be scrolled, I have to scroll the entire Browser window, which also hides all the info boxes n stuff. Is it possible to include some kind of mobile interface for the site so everything just fits niceley onto the screen? Map itself has to be scrolled of coursebut at least the GUI could be entireley visible on one sceen. Needs some size adjustments too I guess.


Damn, I think I have to start with Advance Wars 2 again now.

 

[bzar]

This is one of the things I have fixed in wars-gamenode's interface. The reason wars-django has it done like that is to support iOS devices before iOS5. They don't really handle multiple scrollable contexts well. I'm dropping that support in wars-gamenode for the benefit of everyone else.

 

[fusion_power]

You are dropping alot, but yes, a scrollable map is really needed. Is HTML5 really that slow? No movement, no animations, no nothing. ^^


The Idea of your game is great, Ican continue my games anytime from anywhere. But I guess there could be better and faster Solutions than html5.


I guess I make some game graphics, I always wanted to build a tank in Blender in 3D. I can make any 2D image of this model from any perspective. I hope it works in the game but the graphic alone shouldn't cause performance issues. Are there options planed to include self made graphics? I could need this at least just for testing. Not sure if I can get anything decent pixelated but it itches in my fingers to try to make some nicer Graphics for this game.


No Promisses of course.

 

[bzar]

HTML5 can do it, it's not that. Basically any animation requires a timed refresh of the drawing canvas. It's basically no more resource intensive to do frame animation (like walking etc) than it is to do transition (like moving from A to D through tiles B and C). Both however require the same basic framework of clear, update, draw and wait. My main concern is playability, which I don't want to sacrifice to eye candy. On some of the devices I target animating stuff might make scrolling and input lag. Also at this time I believe my time is better spent doing other stuff, like getting the basics running well and making a UI that supports the gameplay better. Bottom line: bigger priorities, possible input lag issues with lower power devices. I'll first concentrate on the basics, then add bling if I have time


Wars-gamenode's current development version is probably currently easier to get running for testing themes than wars-django. It doesn't have full gameplay yet, but at least you'd be able to use the map editor to see how your tiles would look in a map. PM me for details if you'd like to give it a shot .

 

[fusion_power]

Your Basic Game already feels very well, I mean the way it works, the "internals". I'm also for focussing on stuff like a better UI first, the graphical eyecandy can wait but it sureley could improve the game experience/playability alot imho. I not even need animated tiles but for better overview what is happening on screen, some visible unit transitions would be nice some day. I just suggested this for a better gaming experience, not because I need better visuals, I think visible Movement really can help in this kind of game.


Besides that, before I can include my tiles, I have to make some. I'm not a pixel artist so it could take a while to make it in 3D first and then pixelate it (yes, this is easier for me ) Or maybe we just "borrow" some Sprites from Advance Wars? ^^


However, I could try to improve some of your pixel-theme tiles and see if it is really an improvement. Just tiny things like water under the ships or a half Infantry sprite when moving in water or so. I also wonder, if the "Engine" could handle "Tile-over-tile" stuff like buildings going higher than 1 tile and covering some parts of the tile behind. Useful for Forrests and Mountains but not that important of course. ^^


Simple Editor would be fine but I guess I can test this easily in Photoshop.


P.S.: could you test my map please? I have no clue if it is a good map for your game because I designed it for Advance Wars. I guess your Wars skills are much better than mine so you can see weak spots or so. ^^