War in Ukraine


TL;DR If you believe in self-defense for anyone that could put up a fight or actually change outcomes, what do you think is on the table in so doing?
It's not about whether or not I 'believe in self-defense for anyone that could put up a fight or actually change outcomes' equaling what I think is 'on the table in so doing'; Their admirable defiance is about 'them believing strong self-defense' is the only means of survival in the face of massive odds.
 
Can't disagree with her on that, she's spot on.
No, even oversimplified it's not right either. She skims over the fact WHY some eastern regions want to be independent. Simplifying: The east of Ukraine harbors terrorists, ergo, all citizens of the east are terrorists. Let's orchestratr a regime change and bomb them into submission; but now the Russians defend the terrorists, bad Russians! If that's too simplfied, here's biased wikipedia entries, which at least talk about 2014 and onwards:

So what's an USA general wins to stand against popular opinion and being marked a commie?


Well, if you dig deeper, it's the USA, actually, the CIA, who is to blame for this shit; but Wikipedia, unsurprisingly, does not mention it. The General in the tweet neither, but I guess you don't speak out uncomfortable truths and don't bite the hand that feeds you.
It still does not excuse Russia for doing the invasion.
But think about this: Are Russian missiles in Cuba, pointing to USA an acceptable way to defend your borders and preserve peace? No? Then why should Western missiles in Ukraine not be the same?

sources for that:
 
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No, even oversimplified it's not right either.
She clearly only mentioned basic facts and sticks to her own narrative.
Usually a conflict doesn't appear out of thin air, she doesn't provide any motivated for it to happen. I assume to keep the story simple.

My experience is that any interested kid would follow-up with the though question: "Why?" and follow that one up with the same question.
 
While we are watching Ukraine:

Israel bombed Siria and WestBank (but is that news? They do this all the time)
Pentagon bombed Somalia (because Peace is war, and we bring the peace)
And the Dombas bodycount is of 14.000 (mostly (west-)Ukraine bombing Dombas/east-Ukraine)

Meanwhile:
Snake Island? The troops ain't dead, it seems:

Russian Dronestrikes? Well, the footage is from dronestrikes in the middle-east:

Actors. Pictures from years ago:

Same for the pictures of the Ukranian president in combat gear... also from an exercise a few years ago.

This is an information war.
 
@comradekingu, sorry by I don't understand your text.
@netcat Are you humoring yourself with the worst possible takes?

Arguing on part of being a pacifist is is a supposed inability to do something by choice not derived from the conditions of being able to chose and abstaining, ala "I can't do this because I am vegan". You reason in the very thing you pertain to be unable to, so that means weapons for people other than yourself? How far does the self go? In a zero sum scenario, self-defense exists for all parties btw.
Are you pointing at my contradictions about pacifism and giving out arms ? Yes, it's contradictory. I'm not for giving out arms. I just said that forcing people to fight is even worse than helping figth those who want.
Put yourself in his shoes, and you can either defect or try to signal opposition.
Whose shoes ? Russian soldier ? Ukranian soldier ? Ukranian civilian ? male ? female ? young ? old ?
The propaganda effort has all sorts of potential, and the bar is low.
To arm a population having amassed grievances without them also means other scores are settled.
Yes. And there's the problem of recovering the arms once the war is over. Even if citizens don't use it for crimes they could eventually sell them in the black market.
But I've heard (no source, please keep some healthy skepticism) that the Ucranian government has released prisioners from prisons and given them arms to fight the Russians.
I mean from the UA government's point of view they must think it's better to give arms to all and suffer some crime from a part of the Ukranians than not giving them and
suffering murder from all the Russian solders. It's choosing between so bad options that it's hard to judge.

A war fought with Ukrainian women using hand-weapons is not good optics, nor are they trained to do so.
Why ? Many armies have woman soldiers. Some even marry. Look at the Kurdistan ... Don't get me wrong. I don't like armies and I don't like soldiers, men or women.
And from what I can understand (little) many men that are given arms also have no training at all. A video tutorial on making Molotov cocktails is no military training.
Having the entire populace capable of fighting a guerilla war leave is a default loss for the person giving orders.
But it is a win for the popullation who has in principe appointed the person given orders. If it was the entire population who leaved, then it'd be clear the majority want asurrender. If a minority leaves it's not such a lose.
Gender politics vanish immediately removed from the underpinnings of western pretence. Ipso facto.
? Discriminating by gender is not only unjust, it leads to allocating unoptimal resources to tasks.
The EU is dealt a hand having to play along like it was a fight to be had, when it offers temporary asylum.
Note that work-permits will follow those.
Makes sense. Should be the policy in more cases, not only Ukranians. People factually living in a place without work permits only worsen the job market, because they end up getting dark economy jobs, can't pay taxes, and get lower salaries.
The gas and oil is and will be bought, and Ukraine not joining NATO is communicated openly.
The consideration of fighting a professional army or not doesn't take into account being invaded by a less corrupt entity.
Ukraine is bankrupt and can hardly afford to pay its citizens pensions.
The economic incentive does not even abate the surge in crime internally.
I'm lost. I don't know if Ukraine was bankrupt or is now after sustaining heavy bombing and all, but I don't trust any modern economy to be able to pay pensions much longer.
I don't know if the sanctions are strong enough to stop Russia from paying pensions (or soldier salaries). I think if that ever comes it'll take some time.
It's a political problem, not a really economical one. Resources are wasted in useless stuff for few, else there would be enough food etc. for all. Pension won't be paid because people in power won't want to and the other won't be able to influence that enough.

Entire regions are seceding and steadfast in this aim when the industry laden parts it constitutes have lost much of that capacity.
which capacity? I generally find separatism great. In the Donbass case I sincerly don't know how much is "legit" and how much is Russia underhand, just like the opposition to it may be "legit" or may be CIA/US/EU/west whatever maneuvers. I don't know.
We observe the tactics and results of an army as distinct from a scenario where people don't know what they are doing.
When you rationalize they can make that consideration for their families, you are inserting a motive for exactly why they are there on both sides of what is often the same coin.
I'm lost. I don't see as mutually exclusive the actions of an army and the actions of people who don't know what they are doing. The Russians in Ukraine are an army but many soldiers are very young and were alledgedly told they went on maneuvers, not on invasion of a foreign neighbour. So do they know what they are doing ? Do they all know whether they'l lhave food rations tommorrow or are going to have to steal food around ? Do they know whether Putin plans to throw a nuclear bomb on their heads tommorrow ? Likely not, but nobody knows.
The feeling for one's families doesn't seem to be the same for those on an invaded country than for the invaders. But then when an invader considers defecting, they may fear for represalies back home, maybe. I don't know.
If you think you are immune from reprisals from Russia in present day Ukraine, I really don't know what to tell you.
No. I didn't mean that. I meant for an Ukranian deciding whether to fight a bigger army and risk death or surrender and risk reprisals from that army, political cleansing and so on, is no easy decision. And the little I've heard from Ukranian history is ripe with examples of both disgraces.
TL;DR If you believe in self-defense for anyone that could put up a fight or actually change outcomes, what do you think is on the table in so doing?
I only meant that even if I don't like fighting and I might choose not to, I don't feel apt to judge others who choose to fight given the alternative to be killed or repressed. I think the decision is too difficult to impose mine on others. I would impose it (if I could) in all other cases but self-defense.

Now a curiosity (numerical coincidence?)
The organisations counting the detainees in Russia for protesting against the war give roughly 11000 people (since beginning of invasion last week).
The Ukranian army counting the Russian soldiers they've killed also say 11000 killed (since beginning of invasion last week too).

The real numbers nobody knows, of course. Do they all just give 1000 thousand a day, and call it as good a guess as any?
 
While FOSS was always somewhat of a moral stance on software, I'm in doubt if this kind of activism/politicization is a positive trend.
I always thought it was good that Coca Cola was a brand that delivered their sugary drink to anyone on the planet that wants to drink it. They don't discriminate on who you are, they just sell drinks. Everyone eats and drinks.
Having brands not sell products in Russia is done mostly for PR reasons, not because they don't like to sell products. Russia still sells gas to Europe, they could easily stop that if they want to.
So I don't know if using these kind of channels are the right way do solve political issues. Russia actually uses Linux to not depend on US products, just like China.
Just like banks, internet and phone providers, I think companies should just do what they do and have other entities (like police) handle the legal side.
But I also understand people are working for companies, and you can't just take these kind of emotions out of the equation.
 
I’m pretty sure at this point that Putin’s goal isn’t just Ukraine. I think he’s trying to escalate the situation, so he has an excuse to whip out the nukes. I hope I’m wrong.

This is partly based on analysis that taking over Ukraine costs Russia more than it gains.
 
They don't discriminate on who you are


GNU+Linux

FTFY.

Also in other news, I think I may have identified the person who is stealing liberating the Russian tanks.

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I’m pretty sure at this point that Putin’s goal isn’t just Ukraine. I think he’s trying to escalate the situation, so he has an excuse to whip out the nukes. I hope I’m wrong.

This is partly based on analysis that taking over Ukraine costs Russia more than it gains.
One news station reports it like this:

I was talking about the people they sell to. Each country has there own way of handling employees, the US appears to have their own kind of issues.
You can also have a discussion about why you would select your employees based on race, sex, age etc. instead of how good they do their job.
 
Also in other news, I think I may have identified the person who is stealing liberating the Russian tanks.
now THAT is refreshing news! Thank you for your duly investigation!


This is partly based on analysis that taking over Ukraine costs Russia more than it gains.
Might as well add such analysis for reference, don't you think?
 
I was talking about the people they sell to.

I know, I can read. They treat their customers like shit too.

 

Funded by the west and lots of nasty bugs, like the plague and anthrax. But I don't read Cyrillic, so no idea.
I also do not know if the labs were doing good things or bad things. I assume it's a gray area.
 
I know, I can read. They treat their customers like shit too.

According to themselves they are doing a perfect job:

If a company could buy all the water in your region to sell it in a bottle to the same inhabitants, it sounds like that's a problem caused by the government.
You could say it's immoral but should a company limit it's production if there is a dry period?
There are probably also people buying (cleaned) water from them and without they would have to walk 2 hours themselves to get it. So those people are probably happy with the service.
And each country probably has sub-contractors that should comply with required contracts but aren't complying. You see the same thing happening with Apple, and it makes for bad PR.
As it doesn't sound like it's a global issue, they aren't doing the same thing in each country.
My conclusion was: you can buy Coca Cola anywhere, in Russia, Afghanistan, North Korea, Cuba or any country the US might have beef with.

Blocking sales of products as a weapon against people in a country should be done by governments, not by companies themselves.
But they still do this due to the PR nightmare it might cause, which is a trend these past year. Which is especially bad if a person is innocent, but due to an online mob gets wrecked anyway.
I feel like the same thing is happening to Russia and Russian people. Looks like all lot of people mix Russian politics with Russian people, and those can still be two different things.
It's a bad trend, but I'm also curious if cancelling Russia works compared to Russia's classis physical warfare.
 
Or —as some have come to call it— "Gnu Slash Linux". Personally I like to shorten it to "GNU", which stands for "Gnu/liNUx". It gives extra credit to Linux because the kernel is everything, except when it is used in an OS that is developed by Google in which case the kernel is of no importance whatsoever.
 
How does a Nazi look like? Watch 2 images and let it click in your brain
 
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