War in Ukraine

[Askarus]

Hmm... will you be patriotic and shower with cold water this winter?

Hanover first to ban hot water in response to Russian gas crisis

The drastic step comes as Germans have been told to expect to be hit with sky high electricity bills and sweeping gas rationing measures that will affect their day-to-day lives.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Reducing all the light pollution in big cities is not a bad thing.
We are wasting so much energy here for basically nothing or just advertisement.
Cities and Government alone can save a lot of energy.

 

[FBnil]

We are wasting so much energy here for basically nothing or just advertisement.

We, advertisers are ok with removing advertisement on the streets if we can push advertisements on your TV and mobile phone. Or the government needs to pay us missed income, which are taxes in turn to consumers, for the right to consume.
Lower your taxes by installing a LCD in your bathroom instead of a light. It will give light, and advertisements. Go tax free if you tattoo the lcd's under your eyelids!

 

[levi]

I'd have thought that if they'd switched out all the old HP sodium lamps for white LED lamps, they'd have already saved a lot of power, though it's fair to say these are going to be running a lot hotter than your 9W indoor lights, plus they've got loads of space for a big heatsink/radiator so they can afford to without baking them. I'd have thought dropping the temperature of swimming pools would be more cost effective, since the only way to do that electrically is via resistive load, or they could be setting fire to fossil fuels and pumping water through pipes above the fire, but either way it would save a lot of gas.

 

[rygD]

They heat swimming pools? I call bullshit.

 

[FBnil]

They heat swimming pools? I call bullshit.

wait... you are kiddin' right? There are lots of companies that help you warm your private swimming pool. That is now being made illegal in countries like Germany.
Did you know there are rules about the water temperature for Olympic and competition swimming? (26°C)
I guess yakuzzi are not swimming pools per sé, but we got Tropicana.

Public swimming pools feel cold but are actually heated to a minimum temperature using compressed gas, or just straight burning gas. If you had school-swimming in the first hours of the morning, the water was cold, compared to evening lessons. (Netherlands has a mandatory swimming program all schools adhere to, you know, the country being under water and all). Too cold water and children get cramps and drown.

The other way around is also true:
There are laws to prevent the water being above 25 degrees Celcius because of Legionella that survives even if chlorated. It suck that they don't have cooling because by those temperatures, they close the baths and people don't have a place to cool down anymore.
Next time in an indoor public swimming pool (don't want sunlight to be a factor) feel with your hand the difference in temperature between a toddler bath and the deep swimming pool. The toddler bath is warmer, and it's not only pee-heated (Recommended temperatures: 29-30°C - can't find a law though)
For private swimming pools they offer heat pumps, and other cheaper heating methods, like black carpets.

Not gas, but Coal heated halls in the public library:

Geen verwarmde zwembaden meer

Duitsland: Duitsland treft maatregelen om komende winter gas te besparen. Privézwembaden mogen niet langer met gas verwarmd worden.

www.nrc.nl

hmm... the wiki does not mention the cockroaches that liked the heated temperatures. For me the second cause visits to drop and their downfall (the first was molestation by lightly tinted youth):

Tropicana (Rotterdam) - Wikipedia

nl.wikipedia.org

And check this out: Subtropical swimming paradise:

Center Parcs Europe - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I wonder how they will be affected. I guess that they'll start using electric heating and raise prices.

 

[netcat]

Wow. this is an excellent example of my favourite theme, humanities regression

 

[TeDaDeS]

Looks like Ukraine is taking back it's own cities quickly before autumn/winter sets in.
Also Zaporizhzhia power plant is now taken off-line and is running on it's back-up diesel generators.

 

[levi]

That the power station the IAEA have gone to? I guess that;s not good news but I'll have to watch the news to find out more.

Has the title of this thread changed? I don't recognise it, but it probably makes more sense that what is was before.

 

[TeDaDeS]

That the power station the IAEA have gone to? I guess that;s not good news but I'll have to watch the news to find out more.

Yes. I checked, looks like Reuters has a more clear story on the current state. They aren't using the diesel generators yet, they actually fixed the broken connection to the external power-source so they could safely take the last unit off-line. Only if the connection is cut and the back-up generators run out of fuel (takes about 10 days if there is no resupply) then there would be a problem (or obviously if they blow-up the plant).
Source: https://www.reuters.com/world/ukrai...plant-halts-operations-energoatom-2022-09-11/

 

[levi]

According to the BBC they're still running one reactor to provide pumping power to the coolant system, especially since mains power from the local city has been knocked out. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62855104

Edit: They're reporting on TV now that the last reactor has been turned off which means they're running the coolant on diesel generators

 

[matzesu]

Saw yesterday a Gopro Video footage from a American Volunteer Soldier, was quite sureal.. ..

 

[netcat]

we need to give up on nuclear energy. we still don't really have it in pocket. esp South Korea should abandon their fission bollox, it's gonna slam them hard.

 

[netcat]

All wars are banker's wars.

You reckon Russia is in it for financial gain?

 

[levi]

Well, Putin wanted Ukraine back in the union. He didn't anticipate anything near to the pushback he's been getting, but assuming he thought they'd just be able to waltz in there, the main things ukraine makes are grains and new media. Ignoring new media for now because it's too nebulous and difficult to price, cheap grains makes cheap bread which keeps the proles happy.

we need to give up on nuclear energy. we still don't really have it in pocket. esp South Korea should abandon their fission bollox, it's gonna slam them hard.

Nuclear power isn't ideal for warzones, but if you can guarantee it's unlikely for your containment shield to be shelled, it has some advantages, such as being carbon neutral. The main disadvantages are the fissile waste it produces, and the sheer cost in building it in the first place. I think it;s safe to say that Nuclear fusion won't be ready in time to ameliorate the climate crisis, but I think it's too early to say we should stop that development, especially as it's more or less the main thing nuclear researchers do with their time.

 

[TeDaDeS]

This feels like a lesson on Ukraine, but still handy to know:

Metallic minerals
2nd place in the world in gallium extraction: 9 tonnes and 2.9% of global output
5th place in the world in germanium extraction: 1 tonne and 1% of global output
6th place in the world in titanium extraction: 431 thousand tonnes and 6.3% of global output
7th place in the world in iron extraction: 39 M tonnes and 2.4% of global output
8th place in the world in manganese extraction: 651 thousand tonnes and 3.6% of global output

Non-metallic minerals
6th place in the world in kaolins extraction: 2,4 M tonnes and 5,9% of global output (I had to look this one up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaolinite)
8th place in the world in graphite extraction: 13 thousand tonnes and 1.3% of global output
10th place in the world in zirconium silicate extraction: 26 thousand tonnes and 1,9% of global output

Mineral fuels
10th place in the world in uranium extraction: 1 tonne and 1,4% of global output
12th place in the world in coking coal extraction: 5,2 M tonnes and 0,5% of global output
13th place in the world in power plant coal extraction: 18,9 M tonnes and 0,4% of global output

Other resources:
Oil, Gas (2nd biggest reserve in Europe), Lithium, Bauxite, Nepheline, Alunite, Mercury ores, Zokerite, Potassium salt, Rock salt, Phosphorites and natural Sulfur.

And even more:
And Ukraine is also known for producing vegetable oil, grain, and more*
*Didn't care to look those up as they are actively being created and cannot be 'stolen' by taking land

 

[pyrat]

Russian IT workers and bankers exempted from raft. OK, we possibly don't need many more examples of Putin's craziness, but what do they plan to eat ? bits ? account balances ? They seem to think bankers and computer workers are more important than farmers or truck drivers ? I guess doctors and nurses are needed both in the army and in civil society, but come on... Unless it's the other way around, are they just protecting the army from nerds and thieves ? I mean people with any barely functioning logic may be a hard fit in the Russian army, and there's possibly enough corruption there to add more bankers ...

 

[TeDaDeS]

Russian IT workers and bankers exempted from raft. OK, we possibly don't need many more examples of Putin's craziness, but what do they plan to eat ? bits ? account balances ? They seem to think bankers and computer workers are more important than farmers or truck drivers ? I guess doctors and nurses are needed both in the army and in civil society, but come on... Unless it's the other way around, are they just protecting the army from nerds and thieves ? I mean people with any barely functioning logic may be a hard fit in the Russian army, and there's possibly enough corruption there to add more bankers ...

"Among the media outlets previously classified as such are a host of state-run TV channels, radio stations, news agencies, and newspapers, as well as some of Russia’s few privately-held media outlets." -from the linked website
Does sound like the exemptions are inline with the ongoing war efforts. Also 300.000 is a lot of people but it's not that they pick the most valuable people from the 171 million Russians, even with the full 25 million people draft they probably still have farmers left.
The sad thing about sending those people is that they are probably have no gear, are poorly trained and are unmotivated; which increases the chance of them not performing and not returning home. Which is the sad truth about most wars.
If I understood correctly they'll send the first 60.000 people to the front-lines after only 2 weeks of training.
Whatever anyone thinks about war, I think we can all agree that sending unmotivated and untrained people to their death is an even more sad thing.

 

[levi]

Probably those that sit in front of a computer screen all day aren't consider fit enough to be useful to a failing army. But yeah it doesn't look good if all your young farmers get killed by Ukrainians which means you miss a generation of farmers and hope grandad can teach the youngsters in about ten years or so.

 

[pyrat]

"Among the media outlets previously classified as such are a host of state-run TV channels, radio stations, news agencies, and newspapers, as well as some of Russia’s few privately-held media outlets." -from the linked website

Yeah, I read that and then I thought most journalists in those media outlets must already be in secret services payroll, so no reason to draft them, and the rest will most likely be classified as foreign agents, and eventually sent to prison instead of the front.
But later today I read in the same web that one news presenter in RT (pro Kremlin) has criticised the implementation of the draft (not doing the draft itself, but errors in doing it). He said it's so badly done that looks as if Kiev had done it.

Does sound like the exemptions are inline with the ongoing war efforts. Also 300.000 is a lot of people but it's not that they pick the most valuable people from the 171 million Russians, even with the full 25 million people draft they probably still have farmers left.

Yes, but by the same reasoning if they didn't exempt bankers and computer staff and journalists, there would also still be bankers, computer staff and journalists left to do their work. The draft is always insane, but the exemptions add insult to injury.

The sad thing about sending those people is that they are probably have no gear, are poorly trained and are unmotivated; which increases the chance of them not performing and not returning home. Which is the sad truth about most wars.

Of course.

If I understood correctly they'll send the first 60.000 people to the front-lines after only 2 weeks of training.

I'm not sure, I've read it as a rumour, but can't quite believe it. I can't see what military sense that could make. Some analists said they'll wait the muddy autumn while training new soldiers and use them in winter when the mud freezes. Still not much training.

Whatever anyone thinks about war, I think we can all agree that sending unmotivated and untrained people to their death is an even more sad thing.

Yeah. They say they're drafting people in Crimea too, because for Putin those are Russians too. No telling who they'll fight for once given a riffle.

 

[TeDaDeS]

Yeah, I read that and then I thought most journalists in those media outlets must already be in secret services payroll, so no reason to draft them, and the rest will most likely be classified as foreign agents, and eventually sent to prison instead of the front.
But later today I read in the same web that one news presenter in RT (pro Kremlin) has criticised the implementation of the draft (not doing the draft itself, but errors in doing it). He said it's so badly done that looks as if Kiev had done it.

Yes, but by the same reasoning if they didn't exempt bankers and computer staff and journalists, there would also still be bankers, computer staff and journalists left to do their work. The draft is always insane, but the exemptions add insult to injury.

Of course.

I'm not sure, I've read it as a rumour, but can't quite believe it. I can't see what military sense that could make. Some analists said they'll wait the muddy autumn while training new soldiers and use them in winter when the mud freezes. Still not much training.

Yeah. They say they're drafting people in Crimea too, because for Putin those are Russians too. No telling who they'll fight for once given a riffle.

I think they have a big PR problem in Russia, so I assume they want to exempt everyone that has access to publicly denounce the current regime for a large audience.

Sending some troops now already might just be to somewhat stabilize the currently held regions as troops are already fighting there for a while, due to autumn access will be limited anyway so it's much harder for Ukraine to take back area.
Any new Russian troops stopping the Ukrainian advance now might help in keeping some territory until the next batch of troops arrive next year when it's a bit warmer weather again.