"vimacs" Please Reconsider

[dgame]

Here we go again . . .

 

[Kyo]

I bet he has done an awful lot for the PND system and so on, however, I am equaly sure that we have enuff programmers here to take it further.
It is absolutely childish, to quit your job when you don't like your boss. This analogy is useless as it was no real job, however, can you imagine that all of Apples or Microsofts employees are have liked Billy Gates or Steve jobs?
Or all employees of the US-Government have liked Bush?

The libPND stuff looks cool, however, I am pretty sure I can live without.

Vimacs stood up to help a community memember. This is such a great act, that he deserves very much respect for this. I hope he comes back, because we need everyone with enough courage to spot problems and make them obvious. Craigs bahaviour definitely has been a problem for the project and I at least will stay and help to solve it. Please come back, Vimacs. Pretty please.

Yes, of course, my behavior has been such a problem for the project. That is my great contribution to it.

You have precisely no idea what you are talking about.

Craig, just stop. Cut your losses and stop.

edit:

Meh. I'm not impartial, I never said I was. I still think vimacs deserves an apology. You can't deny that he's done a lot for the community voluntarily, and all he asked for was that Craig treats people with a little more respect. Craig completely blew him off.

Kyosys, that's not how it went down. Vimacs didn't "ask" Craig to treat people with a little more respect, he practically grabbed him by the balls and said "apologize or I will cancel my order and screw the main package management system". Neither of them acted smart. Nor did Mali. If I do something stupid, I sure as hell won't make better for it if doing so would equal crawling at someone's feet, that's simply not how you enhance people's behavior and promote mutual respect. If Craig gave in to the threats, the apology would both feel dishonest and be a hit on Craig's pride, so the ultimatum definitely didn't make the conflict any easier to resolve.

It's true that you're not impartial, because lately you have been ranting a lot about Craig. You're angry for personally having to had come to the decision to cancel your order, reasons of which you've laid out previously. The relevant bit is that this anger impairs your judgement, as clearly you're not being objective.

You're in the right in that nobody should tolerate everything and that one should be free to speak his mind to point out flaws in e.g. Craig's, erm, handling of public relations. But in doing so you also have to make yourself approachable so that the person whose actions you're criticizing can maintain his sense of freedom and control over the situation. If you threaten, bully and slander them, it doesn't leave them with enough space to generate a more humane and fair response, with sincerity that makes it [the response] worth something.

I'm gonna give you that I may have played down what vimacs did, but I still think it was something he had the right to do, as a volunteer. Vimacs isn't earning a penny here, he's just a really nice guy. Sure, he threatened Craig, but not without reason. Yeah, I'm impartial to Craig, but I've laid down my reasons multiple times, and it's certainly not blind hatred (or hatred at all for that matter). My posts represent my personal opinion and stance on things, I never claimed them to be universal truths. Mali may have said something stupid, but he's admitted to this multiple times and he really just wanted to let it go and for everyone to get along. I don't get why he is still being harassed at all.

Vimacs didn't ask Craig to apologize, he asked him to be a little more respectful to his customers (paraphrasing) - yeah, he did threaten him because of it. Again, he volunteered his work and if I didn't like how someone was being so arrogant about a project to the community that he needed plenty of help from the very same community from I would damn well do the same thing.

I'm angry, but I'm angry for reasons. You say I'm impartial, that's fine. My posts, my opinions. I'm no person of authority and not making a public statement representing anyone here. Anyone but myself, that is. Yeah I'm angry at Craig, but do you really think I would have not seen anything wrong with Craigs post had he not done anything else? He quite literally called someone a dishonest little shit and the posts here show that after all that time he still hasn't learned a thing from it all. I for one hope that vimacs doesn't come back because Craig really deserves that. There, I said it.

Whenever I made a claim about Craig, I backed it up with facts. I wouldn't call anything I did bullying or slandering. As for vimacs, he's really not the same person as me, so I don't get why you're throwing us in one hat. I think his threat was justified for the reasons stated above. I'm not trying to play it down at all, it was a threat, but I think there is no problem with that. Sorry if it came out wrong.

 

[craigix]

Craig, just stop. Cut your losses and stop.

But then you would have to stop your trolling. Imagine that!

 

[mcobit]

Lock it down, this gets childish now.

Edit: Can't we just like each other?

 

[Kyo]

Craig, just stop. Cut your losses and stop.

But then you would have to stop your trolling. Imagine that!

It's quite easy to stamp someone off as a troll, but I have almost 900 pro-pandora and a preorder I held on for over a year under my belt. You really think my intent is to troll anyone? This is just a strawman argument.

 

[mali]

I'm entirely approachable and friendly, but this is a business and you know how we lose the most money?

People returning devices they have messed up and denying they have touched them.

We lose thousands upon thousands a year from that. It is one of the worst feelings in business.

And I happen to think people who do that are shits.

I totally agree with you and see where you are coming from. Respect the forumites and they will respect you. Double-win

 

[craigix]

Craig, just stop. Cut your losses and stop.

But then you would have to stop your trolling. Imagine that!

It's quite easy to stamp someone off as a troll, but I have almost 900 pro-pandora and a preorder I held on for over a year under my belt. You really think my intent is to troll anyone? This is just a strawman argument.

It's exactly what you have been doing, sitting there stirring up the thread. I find it hilarious.

 

[Sphinxter]

I'm entirely approachable and friendly, but this is a business and you know how we lose the most money?

People returning devices they have messed up and denying they have touched them.

We lose thousands upon thousands a year from that. It is one of the worst feelings in business.

And I happen to think people who do that are shits.

You are in the wrong business, bail out now.

 

[Kyo]

Craig, just stop. Cut your losses and stop.

But then you would have to stop your trolling. Imagine that!

It's quite easy to stamp someone off as a troll, but I have almost 900 pro-pandora and a preorder I held on for over a year under my belt. You really think my intent is to troll anyone? This is just a strawman argument.

It's exactly what you have been doing, sitting there stirring up the thread. I find it hilarious.

I find it funny how arguing with you is like arguing with a 10 year old. If you're gonna go down to that level, I'm gonna follow you there. I think you're a pussy. What you've been doing is evading any argument you didn't have an answer for and responding to those that were easy. I've also noticed that you seem to be incapable of remorse. A normal man would see why even though malis post may not have been nice calling someone a "dishonest shit" is wrong, especially on a forum that forbids this. I think you're a liar and an opportunist. And I think you really hate the thought of being wrong in the slightest. Yes, Craig. I don't like you. I don't like your way of handling this project and I don't like how you're treating people. You show absolutely zero respect to anyone. That doesn't mean I'm trolling, that just means I really don't like you, because I don't.

You're trolling people as well with your "yeah it's totally coming in two months", "it has 1000Gb of ram" and "the cases will be free because we're an awesome company", in the broader sense. You're a dishonest little shit, that's what you are.

Edit: And another thing; I think that if it wasn't for ED, MWeston and Fatih, who are actually decent people, this project would have failed ages ago. My problem is not with the pandora, with the company, my problem is with you.

 

[mcobit]

Stop Now!

Or we might have other things split the community than hardwarechanges or overclocking.

This used to be such a friendly place. Now all the hate is killing the good atmosphere.

 

[harig074]

In all seriousness: Isn't it fairly unrespectful towards Vimacs to somehow imply that enough boot-licking will have him "come back"? I mean, I can see both Craigs and Vimacs side on this matter - Vimacs not comfortable with working together with EvilCraig (that is, the Craig that appears in times when he really shouldn't post), and Craig realizing that a quite nice part of the OS code actually was not under the control of the project. I quite understand Craigs reaction (which was, as far as I get, actually fairly civil - He noted that they might not be able to use the PND code and offered to handle Vimacs wish to cancel his order). I quite understand Vimacs frustration.

However, that is what it is - A disagreement between Craig and Vimacs. The problem for Vimacs is not that he hasn't gotten enough ego-stroking from loads of forum members - The problem for Vimacs is the attitude of Craig. The problem for Craig is not that he hasn't heard loads of forum members proclaim their love for Vimacs - The problem for Craig is that he realised Vimacs owned parts of code that could possibly be leveraged to substantially hinder OS development at the whim of Vimacs. Never mind if that would happen or not, this is at this moment a huge problem businesswise (a lot bigger than whether someone might or might not be honest with a warranty claim in some unspecified future).

Vimacs has done his part here in as good a way as he could whilst keeping self-respect - He has (literally) laid down his weapon by signing over the code to someone else, thus making sure that he is not any more a possible threat (bear with me: From the view of this conflict, that is, not that I claim that he ever was or would be). That means Vimacs has disarmed (or at least moved to Skeezix) Craigs leg of the disagreement. Now, the move on the other leg is Craigs (or somebody else at OPs) - There would need to be a re-establishment of trust between Vimacs and the project, somehow either convincing Vimacs that Craig will be able to keep EvilCraig under control, or that EvilCraig is not a problem in the great scheme of things. If this is to succeed, I'd imagine personal contact is appropriate, possibly apologies or explanations, possibly drinking of beers, slapping of backs and tellings of anecdotes.

However, a chorus of forumites going "Ooohh, Vimacs, come back" will not settle Vimacs disagreements with Craig. To imagine that it would is to imagine, somehow, that Vimacs staged a tantrum to get som fan attention, and I don't really see that in Vimacs.

I guess posting large unreadable replies doesn't either

 

[Mithrildor]

So its our own problem when you add a big Self Destruct button on the device without being able to password protect the button, by someone else?

Sure its not fair when people destroy their own padnora when they knew they could destroy it by overclocking. But if the function just looks like something absolutly normal to without giving the warning that it could fuckup the machine, then its the fault of OpenPandora ltd.


And sure I would be angry to if someone knew he was wrong and ignores it, but you dont have to be all hostile like: "thats your own fakkin fault and your own fakkin problem, so shut up and dont ruin my bussiness", but you can say. It was your own problem, but we can repair it for ?? dollar if you want.


Stop being insulted so quickly.

 

[EvilDragon]

It does warn you when you change the frequency to a too high value.

 

[Mithrildor]

It does warn you when you change the frequency to a too high value.

Ok then Craigs complaints are okay, still he could say stuff nicer.

 

[SNESFAN]

god damn it... will people just shut the f up about this? This same argument has been going on constantly for like the past 48 hours straight now!

locking this won't do any good... someone will just make another and draw this out some more.

problem isn't bout processors, policies, overclocking, overvolting, craig... it's just nerd egos.

lock this whole corner of the forum for a couple days till people go ice their nerd egos off a bit.

 

[Mithrildor]

god damn it... will people just shut the f up about this? This same argument has been going on constantly for like the past 48 hours straight now!

locking this won't do any good... someone will just make another and draw this out some more.

problem isn't bout processors, policies, overclocking, overvolting, craig... it's just nerd egos.

lock this whole corner of the forum for a couple days till people go ice their nerd egos off a bit.

I paid a fakkin 270 euro for this machine so I can say that Craig fuck it up with his cursing on kewl devs

 

[TaG]

What the...

A thread asking Vimacs to come back has just continued with all the arguments. Sad.

 

[x68000]

This thread has become pathetic and hugely off topic. So Closed.