"vimacs" Please Reconsider

[Kyo]

C'mon Craig, just be a man and apologize. He deserves it.

I fail to see how you can make that judgement considering your lack of impartiality.

Your constant nagging is becoming very, very tiresome. Every single post is on a massive downer.

Meh. I'm not impartial, I never said I was. I still think vimacs deserves an apology. You can't deny that he's done a lot for the community voluntarily, and all he asked for was that Craig treats people with a little more respect. Craig completely blew him off.

Do you think what Craig did was justified? Personally, I think mali also deserves an apology, but mali didn't want one so that's good for Craig, because I sure as hell would have not been satisfied. Vimacs left and it's Craig's fault, Craig never apologized or even saw what he did wrong. He literally had to ask for someone to spell it out to him.

Yeah I'm nagging, for good reason.

 

[mali]

^I think we should get back to normal now and let the affected people handle it themselves.

 

[LuvClub]

When i placed my order, i was happy to pay extra to give to the Dev fund. I would like a small % of this to go towards vimacs so he can get a Pandora. Anyone stand with me?

Edit: Spelling

Instead of using funds from the Dev fund, I think he should of got a free one from OP for his contribution to the OS anyway which is a fundamental part of the Pandora and should be considered as part of the inital R&D costs.

 

[TaG]

Hopefully Vimacs will return - he has posted since. In an ideal world Craig would get in touch with him personally and resolve any differences...

(I'm not dissing Craig either - I think yesterday was an 'off day', his posts since are much more constructive)

 

[Kyo]

^I think we should get back to normal now and let the affected people handle it themselves.

I do agree.

 

[Mithrildor]

Dont worry! BE HAPPY!

 

[nikkopt]

Hey guys, what's going on here? Look at this beautiful -> andora2ut4:

 

[emil10001]

^I think we should discuss this in the next months and form a forum's team of people who are willing to take care of it. The maemo community had some "greeters" who volunteered to help n00bs after the N900 shitstorm happened. The key is to stay calm and helpful, that way it's easy to point n00bs in the right direction and isolate trolls at the same time.

Just a quick correction. This was started much earlier, after woot sold 770 tablets for really cheap. A bunch of people bought them and started filling the board with tons of noob posts. The ITT (Internet Tablet Talk) group then created a forum to deal with the flood. It seemed to work out pretty well. The other thing that they did was to create a lot of basic tutorials, and use those to answer a lot of the questions that they got. I think they had a section called Tablets 101 or something similar. We could do those basic tutorials in the wiki, and post a sticky at the top of the noob section.

Regardless, it's a good idea. At least it will be after units start shipping.

 

[mali]

^I didn't see a "maemo greeter" in the last two years, so I didn't know they existed before, good to know.

 

[second exodous]

Wow, confusing thread. From the poll and the first few posts I thought Craigix didn't want vi and wanted a gui editor like gedit or something.

I find that I have to leave these forums every once in a while because people here tick me off after so long. If I was in the OP team or a dev I would find it really difficult to stick with the project, I envy those guys(and gals, not sure if there are any women working on the project) for sticking with it so I can get my Pandora.

Still, people need to take a break even if it is for a few days when they reach the breaking point. I'm sure some other dev or some other OP team member can fill in for those few days.

 

[Trip]

In all seriousness: Isn't it fairly unrespectful towards Vimacs to somehow imply that enough boot-licking will have him "come back"? I mean, I can see both Craigs and Vimacs side on this matter - Vimacs not comfortable with working together with EvilCraig (that is, the Craig that appears in times when he really shouldn't post), and Craig realizing that a quite nice part of the OS code actually was not under the control of the project. I quite understand Craigs reaction (which was, as far as I get, actually fairly civil - He noted that they might not be able to use the PND code and offered to handle Vimacs wish to cancel his order). I quite understand Vimacs frustration.

However, that is what it is - A disagreement between Craig and Vimacs. The problem for Vimacs is not that he hasn't gotten enough ego-stroking from loads of forum members - The problem for Vimacs is the attitude of Craig. The problem for Craig is not that he hasn't heard loads of forum members proclaim their love for Vimacs - The problem for Craig is that he realised Vimacs owned parts of code that could possibly be leveraged to substantially hinder OS development at the whim of Vimacs. Never mind if that would happen or not, this is at this moment a huge problem businesswise (a lot bigger than whether someone might or might not be honest with a warranty claim in some unspecified future).

Vimacs has done his part here in as good a way as he could whilst keeping self-respect - He has (literally) laid down his weapon by signing over the code to someone else, thus making sure that he is not any more a possible threat (bear with me: From the view of this conflict, that is, not that I claim that he ever was or would be). That means Vimacs has disarmed (or at least moved to Skeezix) Craigs leg of the disagreement. Now, the move on the other leg is Craigs (or somebody else at OPs) - There would need to be a re-establishment of trust between Vimacs and the project, somehow either convincing Vimacs that Craig will be able to keep EvilCraig under control, or that EvilCraig is not a problem in the great scheme of things. If this is to succeed, I'd imagine personal contact is appropriate, possibly apologies or explanations, possibly drinking of beers, slapping of backs and tellings of anecdotes.

However, a chorus of forumites going "Ooohh, Vimacs, come back" will not settle Vimacs disagreements with Craig. To imagine that it would is to imagine, somehow, that Vimacs staged a tantrum to get som fan attention, and I don't really see that in Vimacs.

Agree with this 100%. Top post Moxie

^I think we should discuss this in the next months and form a forum's team of people who are willing to take care of it. The maemo community had some "greeters" who volunteered to help n00bs after the N900 shitstorm happened. The key is to stay calm and helpful, that way it's easy to point n00bs in the right direction and isolate trolls at the same time.

Would be a good idea. I've spent time in the Maemo community over the past 2+ years and never knew that they did this though :blink:

 

[emil10001]

^I didn't see a "maemo greeter" in the last two years, so I didn't know they existed before, good to know.

It was on the InternetTabletTalk forums, which used to be the main place to go for all the maemo forum stuffs. http://www.internettablettalk.com/

 

[Mithrildor]

I want to thank Vimacs for all his work. Im sad he wants to quit the project.

 

[craigix]

I bet he has done an awful lot for the PND system and so on, however, I am equaly sure that we have enuff programmers here to take it further.
It is absolutely childish, to quit your job when you don't like your boss. This analogy is useless as it was no real job, however, can you imagine that all of Apples or Microsofts employees are have liked Billy Gates or Steve jobs?
Or all employees of the US-Government have liked Bush?

The libPND stuff looks cool, however, I am pretty sure I can live without.

Vimacs stood up to help a community memember. This is such a great act, that he deserves very much respect for this. I hope he comes back, because we need everyone with enough courage to spot problems and make them obvious. Craigs bahaviour definitely has been a problem for the project and I at least will stay and help to solve it. Please come back, Vimacs. Pretty please.

Yes, of course, my behavior has been such a problem for the project. That is my great contribution to it.

You have precisely no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Trevsweb]

mali you are a jerk, you said something stupid at the wrong time, just get over it. that goes for the other s*** stirrers
let things settle, if the dev in question wants to come back he will.

Craig stop wasting your time talking to him and get back to work on the appstore

 

[Mithrildor]

Yes, of course, my behavior has been such a problem for the project. That is my great contribution to it.

You have precisely no idea what you are talking about.

Yes he has.

Sure you have been a great contribution to the project (you actually are one of the few owners of OpenPandora ltd).
But your lieing alot (or your guessing things and presenting them as facts) and youre cursing alot.

You are a great guy Craig, but some times you need to shut up and ignore trolls and stop fighting with people.

 

[WizardStan]

Yes, of course, my behavior has been such a problem for the project. That is my great contribution to it.

You have precisely no idea what you are talking about.

You've got to admit you do lack a certain level of diplomacy, especially when you're as stressed out as you are now. Isn't that why you originally "hired" chip? To act as kind of the middle man of information, take the grumblings from the community and form it into well intentioned questions to you, and take your stressed out responses and massage them into customer friendly answers?

 

[fiori_musicali]

Meh. I'm not impartial, I never said I was. I still think vimacs deserves an apology. You can't deny that he's done a lot for the community voluntarily, and all he asked for was that Craig treats people with a little more respect. Craig completely blew him off.

Kyosys, that's not how it went down. Vimacs didn't "ask" Craig to treat people with a little more respect, he practically grabbed him by the balls and said "apologize or I will cancel my order and screw the main package management system". Neither of them acted smart. Nor did Mali. If I do something stupid, I sure as hell won't make better for it if doing so would equal crawling at someone's feet, that's simply not how you enhance people's behavior and promote mutual respect. If Craig gave in to the threats, the apology would both feel dishonest and be a hit on Craig's pride, so the ultimatum definitely didn't make the conflict any easier to resolve.

It's true that you're not impartial, because lately you have been ranting a lot about Craig. You're angry for personally having to had come to the decision to cancel your order, reasons of which you've laid out previously. The relevant bit is that this anger impairs your judgement, as clearly you're not being objective.

You're in the right in that nobody should tolerate everything and that one should be free to speak his mind to point out flaws in e.g. Craig's, erm, handling of public relations. But in doing so you also have to make yourself approachable so that the person whose actions you're criticizing can maintain his sense of freedom and control over the situation. If you threaten, bully and slander them, it doesn't leave them with enough space to generate a more humane and fair response, with sincerity that makes it [the response] worth something.

 

[craigix]

I'm entirely approachable and friendly, but this is a business and you know how we lose the most money?

People returning devices they have messed up and denying they have touched them.

We lose thousands upon thousands a year from that. It is one of the worst feelings in business.

And I happen to think people who do that are shits.

 

[Trip]

Meh. I'm not impartial, I never said I was. I still think vimacs deserves an apology. You can't deny that he's done a lot for the community voluntarily, and all he asked for was that Craig treats people with a little more respect. Craig completely blew him off.

Kyosys, that's not how it went down. Vimacs didn't "ask" Craig to treat people with a little more respect, he practically grabbed him by the balls and said "apologize or I will cancel my order and screw the main package management system". Neither of them acted smart. Nor did Mali. If I do something stupid, I sure as hell won't make better for it if doing so would equal crawling at someone's feet, that's simply not how you enhance people's behavior and promote mutual respect. If Craig gave in to the threats, the apology would both feel dishonest and be a hit on Craig's pride, so the ultimatum definitely didn't make the conflict any easier to resolve.

It's true that you're impartial, because lately you have been ranting a lot about Craig. You're angry for personally having to had come to the decision to cancel your order, reasons of which you've laid out previously. The relevant bit is that this anger impairs your judgement, as clearly you're not being objective.

You're in the right in that nobody should tolerate everything and that one should be free to speak his mind to point out flaws in e.g. Craig's, erm, handling of public relations. But in doing so you also have to make yourself approachable so that the person whose actions you're criticizing can maintain his sense of freedom and control over the situation. If you threaten, bully and slander them, it doesn't leave them with enough space to generate a more humane and fair response, with sincerity that makes it [the response] worth something.

PERFECT!

Seconded