USB concerns - waste of space?

[ekianjo]

If it's advertised correctly as USB 2.0 device then it's fine.

The problem is that the Pandora does not have a real USB2.0 port. A real 2.0 port supports both USB1.1 and USB 2.0. It's because it was improperly connected on the board that it resulted in dropping USB1.1 support, as far as I remember.  

 

[thatgui]

If it's advertised correctly as USB 2.0 device then it's fine.

 The problem is that the Pandora does not have a real USB2.0 port. A real 2.0 port supports both USB1.1 and USB 2.0. It's because it was improperly connected on the board that it resulted in dropping USB1.1 support, as far as I remember.

Not exactly, the SoC only offered 2.0, in order to support 1.x devices a hub had to be built in, which wasn't (space, costs or maybe both).

 

[EvilDragon]

Also not 100% correct. The port both supports USB2.0 and 1.1 devices - but you can only select which one within the kernel.

 

[matzesu]

Also not 100% correct. The port both supports USB2.0 and 1.1 devices - but you can only select which one within the kernel.

So i only can use 1 USB 1.1 and 1 USB 2.0 ??

So not 2 USB 2 Stick at once ?? ..

No Problem for mee, as i ditnt need 2 USB Things at once, and if i need they, i also can use the Cradle (Dockingstation)..

 

[thatgui]

Also not 100% correct. The port both supports USB2.0 and 1.1 devices - but you can only select which one within the kernel.

Thanks for the clarification
Would you find time to comment on two points that came up here:

- there will still be a (Micro)HDMI out directly on the Pandora

- usage of USB3 instead of USB2 USB-A receptables

 

[EvilDragon]

Also not 100% correct. The port both supports USB2.0 and 1.1 devices - but you can only select which one within the kernel.

So i only can use 1 USB 1.1 and 1 USB 2.0 ??So not 2 USB 2 Stick at once ?? ..

No Problem for mee, as i ditnt need 2 USB Things at once, and if i need they, i also can use the Cradle (Dockingstation)..

 That's for the Pandora... both Pyra USB2.0 ports support 1.1 without any rebooting or hub.

But the Pandora port can do both 2.0 or 1.1, not just at the same time.

RiscOS, for example, sets it to 1.1. That's why a mouse or keyboard works without a hub on the Pandora there.

Would you find time to comment on two points that came up here:

- there will still be a (Micro)HDMI out directly on the Pandora

It's not marked as "might change" on the website, so why should that have been changed?

- usage of USB3 instead of USB2 USB-A receptables

As mentioned a couple of times (by gta04 and others here as well), the OMAP5 only supports one USB 3.0 port, and that's the OTG one.

The two USB host ports CAN'T be USB3.

 

[matzesu]

So, maybe a 1.1 Keyboard and a 2.0 Mouse should work on the Pyra ??

Or a 2.0 Stick and a 1.1 Mouse.. 

On the Pandora i ditnt used much a Mouse and Keyboard, but its good if it works..

 

[thatgui]

It's not marked as "might change" on the website, so why should that have been changed?

Don't know, ask the ones that brought it up (in this thread, for whatever reasons). Just wanted an explicit statement in th same thread, so that no rumors could arise

As mentioned a couple of times (by gta04 and others here as well), the OMAP5 only supports one USB 3.0 port, and that's the OTG one.

The two USB host ports CAN'T be USB3.

I know, but with a possible cpu board upgrade (1,5-2 years down the road, after the Pyras release) in mind, wouldn't it make sense if the rest of the board would already support USB3 even if the SoC currently does not ?

Edit:Thanks for answering

 

[EvilDragon]

Oh, you mean the ports themselves?

Might be - but only the normal host, as there's no eSATA / USB3 combo port available.

 

[thatgui]

Oh, you mean the ports themselves?

Might be - but only the normal host, as there's no eSATA / USB3 combo port available.

Yes, I meant the receptables only. While two would certainly be better, I guess one would be enough for most usecases (and there is always the possibility to connect a USB3 hub to it, if necessary)

 

[Askarus]

I know, but with a possible cpu board upgrade (1,5-2 years down the road, after the Pyras release) in mind, wouldn't it make sense if the rest of the board would already support USB3 even if the SoC currently does not ?

That's what I said 2-3 times before.

Better stop ignoring me ).

 

[thatgui]

I know, but with a possible cpu board upgrade (1,5-2 years down the road, after the Pyras release) in mind, wouldn't it make sense if the rest of the board would already support USB3 even if the SoC currently does not ?

 
That's what I said 2-3 times before.


Better stop ignoring me ).

I know, but I don't know where I was/am ignoring you :mellow:

 

[Askarus]

I know, but with a possible cpu board upgrade (1,5-2 years down the road, after the Pyras release) in mind, wouldn't it make sense if the rest of the board would already support USB3 even if the SoC currently does not ?

 
That's what I said 2-3 times before.


Better stop ignoring me ).

I know, but I don't know where I was/am ignoring you :mellow:

Didn't refer to you directly .

It's just no one did show any reaction as I did say it .

So in the future I have to make you to say stuff I want to get reaction .

Good to know.

 

[Saber]

 

Would you find time to comment on two points that came up here:


- there will still be a (Micro)HDMI out directly on the Pandora

It's not marked as "might change" on the website, so why should that have been changed?

Thanks for clarifying it. With all those USB ports on the back, I'd thought microHDMI was dongle only.

Also, not to nitpick, but the 4200 mAh battery on the Pyra specs page also does not have a "might change" designation near it.

 

[_wb_]

It's just no one did show any reaction as I did say it .

Is it possible to add One USB 3.0 Port instead of the 2.0 Port that has no eSATA port included.

Even if the OMAP can't use it I think it's no drawback if we have a USB 3.0 Port there that can only work as 2.0 Port.

As 3.0 is backwards compatible I suppose it's possible to use USB 3.0 Ports and have 2 dead lines.

If we can upgrade the SOC daughter board with an SOC that supports more than one USB 3.0 Port we can make use of the unused USB 3.0 lines.

Same for the SD-card slots.

As UHS-2 Cards require additional pins o the backside of the Card wouldn't it good to include ports with that pins ant let them unused for now.

When the time comes and an SOC has that pins we need not to redesign the Motherboard bot simply can use the lines that are already there.

I think it's probably a good idea to keep USB 3.0 and UHS-2 in mind for all USB ports and SD slots (to make re-design easier when those are added), but it's overkill and confusing to actually put USB 3.0 ports and UHS-2 slots in the current "motherboard" if we're not going to be able to use them yet. It would make things a bit more expensive too.

I mean, we can put all kinds of redundant stuff in the "motherboard" trying to anticipate future evolutions, but making something that is completely future-proof is impossible anyway. Who knows, maybe in 5 years we will want USB 4.0 ports and need a new motherboard anyway.

So I think it would be good to keep in mind that extra traces may be needed in the future, but I wouldn't put anything on the PCB that cannot be used by the current SoC, especially not visible things like blue USB 3.0 ports that only work as a 2.0 one -- that only causes confusion.

 

[pmprog]

RiscOS, for example, sets it to 1.1. That's why a mouse or keyboard works without a hub on the Pandora there

Wait... What?! Can this be made a feature of SuperZaxxon? I don't even mind if we need to reboot to change which USB version it runs, but it'd be nice to be able to plug a mouse or controller in without the need of a hub

 

[Grench]

We already did follow your suggestion a while ago. There will be no Mini-USB on the Pyra.

According to the latest plans there will be:

1. 1 Micro-USB-3.0-OTG (charging/client/host)

2. 1 Standard-USB-2.0-A (host only)

3. 1 Standard-USB-2.0-A + eSATA (host only)

4. 1 Micro-USB-2.0-B (client only - for alternate charging and system console - can not be used simultaneously with 2. for mechanical overlap unless there are very flat plugs)

100% Perfection.

This is coming together into a VERY nice computer! Thank you!

 

[Grench]

Just a note - the complete planned port layout would be worthy of a Pyra news update. This is very exciting stuff.

 

[thatgui]

...

that only causes confusion.

Looking at the possible benefits, I would be willing to risk that - if someone is not able to read the specs, its ones problem

 

[Askarus]

@ _wb_:

(Somehow missed your post, sorry )

So I think it would be good to keep in mind that extra traces may be needed in the future, but I wouldn't put anything on the PCB that cannot be used by the current SoC, especially not visible things like blue USB 3.0 ports that only work as a 2.0 one -- that only causes confusion.

Was there so much confusion with the Pandora USB port?

I don't think so.

It looks like the port onn my laptop that can handle USB 2.0  and USB 1.1 Devices.

I didn't see much confusion here.

Also I think it's a minor thing as the most USB 3.0 will work with 2.0 but slower.