USB concerns - waste of space?

[Neelix]

No standard USB 3 ? We're losing a big feature here :/ .

The only USB3 pins on the OMAP5 are also The OTG pins...  The only way not to lose one big feature or the other is to combine them with the micro-USB3-AB port.

- Neelix

 

[Linux-SWAT]

Ak ok.

So maybe remove the option n°2 and add a rj45 connector instead ?

 

[_wb_]

We already did follow your suggestion a while ago. There will be no Mini-USB on the Pyra.


According to the latest plans there will be:


1. 1 Micro-USB-3.0-OTG (charging/client/host)


2. 1 Standard-USB-2.0-A (host only)


3. 1 Standard-USB-2.0-A + eSATA (host only)


4. 1 Micro-USB-2.0-B (client only - for alternate charging and system console - can not be used simultaneously with 2. for mechanical overlap unless there are very flat plugs)

No standard USB 3 ? We're losing a big feature here :/ .

That was never on the table. OMAP5 only has one OTG port and it is also the only USB-3.0 port. So if you want full-size USB-A 3.0 you cannot have USB-3.0 for OTG/client mode.

 

[_wb_]

Ak ok.

So maybe remove the option n°2 and add a rj45 connector instead ?

For wired networking? I don't really see the use for that on a mobile handheld device. USB is more versatile. Plugging in both a standard keyboard and a standard mouse without needing a hub is useful to more people I think.

 

[Linux-SWAT]

But then it's not possible to plug a usb to rj45 adapter.

Note that i'm not obtuse or anything, all in all there's plenty of combinations/possibilities so it's ok.

But besides that, it's 4 usb at the back of the OP... sounds like crazy and useless to me, especially at the expense of a rj45, which is more than useful for (almost) everyone.

 

[Ziz]

Fun fact, you can sing "waste of space" instead of "ace of spades" in the refrain here:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/1iwC2QljLn4?feature=oembed(However, I think this works better for nonnative English speakers)

 

[Linux-SWAT]

15/10 years ago, they played so loud in The Bataclan hall in Paris that they fissured a wall.

 

[Saber]

For the record, I do believe there will be internal(integrated) WiFi. It's the HDMI port I'm unsure about.

The specs page has "HDMI video out" without an asterisk, if that helps with the uncertainty.

I suppose an absence of an asterisk on "Huge battery for a long battery life (4200mAh)" is confirmation there won't be a larger capacity cell on the Pyra?

With a microSD, and another micro USB port, I'm doubtful we'll have a HDMI port on the Pyra. It will be available in the Docking Station though.

 

[Linux-SWAT]

HDMI is archi-planned. Mini usb should be removed from that list btw.

http://pyra-handheld.de/specs.html

 

[WizardStan]

But then it's not possible to plug a usb to rj45 adapter.

If you've got three things to plug into two ports you're going to need a hub either way, having an onboard wired ethernet port doesn't solve that.

 

[Linux-SWAT]

Well, a good hammer can solve many problems ;^) .

 

[cinaeco]

I suppose an absence of an asterisk on "Huge battery for a long battery life (4200mAh)" is confirmation there won't be a larger capacity cell on the Pyra?

With a microSD, and another micro USB port, I'm doubtful we'll have a HDMI port on the Pyra. It will be available in the Docking Station though.

good point. I take comfort in that at least that the change of the un-asterisked spec was a positive one and not a retracting one.

I guess I have been just assuming that since the Dummy PCB already had a micro hdmi port, that it would persist. Hopefully we get an update on the next close-to-final board soon.

 

[Neelix]

But then it's not possible to plug a usb to rj45 adapter.

If you've got three things to plug into two ports you're going to need a hub either way, having an onboard wired ethernet port doesn't solve that.

Well, a good hammer can solve many problems ;^) .

That reminds me of an ADSL modem a customer brought in because he couldn't get it working....  It was a dual interface type that you could hook up through either USB or Ethernet.   When it came in, the USB B connector was taped into the RJ45 port.

- Neelix

 

[Askarus]

We already did follow your suggestion a while ago. There will be no Mini-USB on the Pyra.


According to the latest plans there will be:


1. 1 Micro-USB-3.0-OTG (charging/client/host)


2. 1 Standard-USB-2.0-A (host only)


3. 1 Standard-USB-2.0-A + eSATA (host only)


4. 1 Micro-USB-2.0-B (client only - for alternate charging and system console - can not be used simultaneously with 2. for mechanical overlap unless there are very flat plugs)

No standard USB 3 ? We're losing a big feature here :/ .

That was never on the table. OMAP5 only has one OTG port and it is also the only USB-3.0 port. So if you want full-size USB-A 3.0 you cannot have USB-3.0 for OTG/client mode.

Is it possible to add One USB 3.0 Port instead of the 2.0 Port that has no eSATA port included.

Even if the OMAP can't use it I think it's no drawback if we have a USB 3.0 Port there that can only work as 2.0 Port.

As 3.0 is backwards compatible I suppose it's possible to use USB 3.0 Ports and have 2 dead lines.

If we can upgrade the SOC daughter board with an SOC that supports more than one USB 3.0 Port we can make use of the unused USB 3.0 lines.

Same for the SD-card slots.

As UHS-2 Cards require additional pins o the backside of the Card wouldn't it good to include ports with that pins ant let them unused for now.

When the time comes and an SOC has that pins we need not to redesign the Motherboard bot simply can use the lines that are already there.

 

[Neelix]

Full sized USB3 ports are blue to make it obvious that it's a USB3 port not a USB2 port...   If you put a physical USB3 port on the board, users will expect it to work as USB3.

- Neelix

 

[YourAverageJoe]

I agree. Having a blue-coloured USB3 connector that can't do USB3 is unintuitive and not consumer-friendly.

 

[_wb_]

We already did follow your suggestion a while ago. There will be no Mini-USB on the Pyra.


According to the latest plans there will be:


1. 1 Micro-USB-3.0-OTG (charging/client/host)


2. 1 Standard-USB-2.0-A (host only)


3. 1 Standard-USB-2.0-A + eSATA (host only)


4. 1 Micro-USB-2.0-B (client only - for alternate charging and system console - can not be used simultaneously with 2. for mechanical overlap unless there are very flat plugs)

No standard USB 3 ? We're losing a big feature here :/ .

That was never on the table. OMAP5 only has one OTG port and it is also the only USB-3.0 port. So if you want full-size USB-A 3.0 you cannot have USB-3.0 for OTG/client mode.

Is it possible to add One USB 3.0 Port instead of the 2.0 Port that has no eSATA port included.

Even if the OMAP can't use it I think it's no drawback if we have a USB 3.0 Port there that can only work as 2.0 Port.

As 3.0 is backwards compatible I suppose it's possible to use USB 3.0 Ports and have 2 dead lines.

If we can upgrade the SOC daughter board with an SOC that supports more than one USB 3.0 Port we can make use of the unused USB 3.0 lines.

Same for the SD-card slots.

As UHS-2 Cards require additional pins o the backside of the Card wouldn't it good to include ports with that pins ant let them unused for now.

When the time comes and an SOC has that pins we need not to redesign the Motherboard bot simply can use the lines that are already there.

I think it's probably a good idea to keep USB 3.0 and UHS-2 in mind for all USB ports and SD slots (to make re-design easier when those are added), but it's overkill and confusing to actually put USB 3.0 ports and UHS-2 slots in the current "motherboard" if we're not going to be able to use them yet. It would make things a bit more expensive too.

I mean, we can put all kinds of redundant stuff in the "motherboard" trying to anticipate future evolutions, but making something that is completely future-proof is impossible anyway. Who knows, maybe in 5 years we will want USB 4.0 ports and need a new motherboard anyway.

 

[levi]

The problem with wiring stuff up for UHS-2 is given it needs approx twice the number of pins, presumably you need corresponding pins on the SoC (or SD support chip) to wire them in to.


Granted, if the CPU's on a daughterboard there's more of a driver for those (currently redundant) channels to be wired up to the CPU connector, even if all the current candidate CPUs can't use those lines. Dunno. What's the top speed of UHS-1 again?

 

[thatgui]

With a microSD, and another micro USB port, I'm doubtful we'll have a HDMI port on the Pyra. It will be available in the Docking Station though.

Video out was one of design goals, if this would be skipped for "just another" USB port, ED would have told us, I am very confident about that > so I highly object to that.

If you put a physical USB3 port on the board, users will expect it to work as USB3.

I agree. Having a blue-coloured USB3 connector that can't do USB3 is unintuitive and not consumer-friendly.

Ultimatly its EDs decision as he has to live with it if people start complaining. But I would rather loose some "huh, the advertised specs definately says that it is only USB 2, but its blue so it must be USB3" type of people if I could offer my customers full USB3 functionality one or two years down the road with a cpu board upgrade.

 

[Askarus]

 

If you put a physical USB3 port on the board, users will expect it to work as USB3.

I agree. Having a blue-coloured USB3 connector that can't do USB3 is unintuitive and not consumer-friendly.

Ultimatly its EDs decision as he has to live with it if people start complaining. But I would rather loose some "huh, the advertised specs definately says that it is only USB 2, but its blue so it must be USB3" type of people if I could offer my customers full USB3 functionality one or two years down the road with a cpu board upgrade.

I can't see that we have so many people complaining about Pandora only being able to use USB 2.0 devices.

Every Mouse and Keyboard does not work.

Ok, sometimes someone asks here on the board but that's it.

If it's advertised correctly as USB 2.0 device then it's fine.

Also USB 3.0 Devices can be used (most of them), but slower.

I don't see any real drawback if we make the USB port as a possible USB 3.0 Port.

SD card Slots are a different thing as a lot more pins would be required.