USB concerns - waste of space?

[Grench]

The reality is that a future CPU board (expensive) will likely need it's own peripheral board (much less expensive) and would need to be sold as a pair.

 
Honestly, if that's the case, then there is absolutely no benefit in having a daughter board for the CPU. The whole point was to have a separate board so that the keyboard, face buttons, ports, etc could all remain without having to need a new board.

There are several benefits.

The CPU board is an expensive (7 layer?) part with a particularly expensive component (SoC).  However it is not subject to wear and tear on ports - no moving or frequently re-plugging parts.  The odds of it failing post production are relatively low.

The peripheral board is an inexpensive (2 layer?) part with many inexpensive components (Plugs & contacts).  It is subject to wear and tear from plug insertions, keyboard presses, etc...

If a machine comes back on a warranty claim, being able to replace the peripheral board and keep the CPU board is beneficial.

Also, during production, an error on one board doesn't fail the whole set.  I.e. if a solder line to a plug gets goobered, it doesn't scrap an SoC.  By using separate components into two categories (complex CPU board) and (simple peripheral board) it should increase the yield of usable parts.

With the 3G module on the peripheral board, different peripheral boards can be efficiently produced by region or cost needs.

1.  Peripheral board without phone module (cheap)

2.  Peripheral board with Euro 3G

3.  Peripheral board with US 3G

4.  Peripheral board with 4G (very expensive)

Then they all got mated during assembly with the same SoC/CPU board.

You've gotten all upset about the USB 3.0 OTG connector and your fears around durability.  If it fails, you can replace the peripheral board relatively cheaply compared to what it would cost if it were all on the same board.

Yes, in theory, a new SoC could be found and mated to the peripheral board.  In order to expect the peripherals to all play nice with the SoC, though, the SoC would need to be of a similar generation of peripherals.  Don't expect an SoC produced 2-3 years from now, that nobody here has even imagined the specs of, to play nice with a peripheral board generated on today's generation of SoC.  It would be like expecting today's current desktop CPUs to plug into a PC from 1987 and expecting the one from 1987 to support all of it's features.  Back in 1987 they had no idea of what is being used today.

In theory the current peripheral board being produced might be able to 'play nice' with something like Bay Trail, but that is a lot of dev work for a niche subset of a niche audience.  Not likely to happen any time soon.

The modular design does have some great benefits though - mostly surrounding design, production and repair costs and product options (none/3G/4G).

 

[Natsu]

What's the price of 3G vs 4G, again?

 

[WizardStan]

What's the price of 3G vs 4G, again?

Sectron is a reseller that has the PHS8-E (3G) for 57 EUR and the PLS8-E (4G) for 105 EUR. The PLS8-P is not available there but is probably going to be just a little more expensive, similar to the PHS8-E vs the PHS8-P; ED can probably also get better prices than this, but the difference should be in the same ballpark, around 40 or 50 EUR between 3G and 4G.

 

[God Ginrai]

You've gotten all upset about the USB 3.0 OTG connector and your fears around durability.  If it fails, you can replace the peripheral board relatively cheaply compared to what it would cost if it were all on the same board.

 Except that getting it cheaper if it fails soon doesn't help solve the problem of getting it later when the product is no longer produced, which was my main reason for wanting durable hardware.

Yes, in theory, a new SoC could be found and mated to the peripheral board.  In order to expect the peripherals to all play nice with the SoC, though, the SoC would need to be of a similar generation of peripherals.  Don't expect an SoC produced 2-3 years from now, that nobody here has even imagined the specs of, to play nice with a peripheral board generated on today's generation of SoC.  It would be like expecting today's current desktop CPUs to plug into a PC from 1987 and expecting the one from 1987 to support all of it's features.  Back in 1987 they had no idea of what is being used today.

I wasn't banking on the 2-3 years down upgrade. Others have suggested that. My intent for replacing the CPU board would be to get the A80 when it became available.

-God Ginrai

 

[TrashyMG]

My intent for replacing the CPU board would be to get the A80 when it became available.

You will be creating an A80 daughter-board yourself? otherwise you're making assumptions of EDs plans.

 

[Yoyobuae]

That's the thing, developing a daughter board would be like developing a whole new device. >_<

Designing a peripheral board would be a bit more approachable. I wonder if ED would be OK with a 3rd party making use of the daughter board but on a different device (ie. the 3rd party would buy the daughter boards from ED).

 

[SNESFAN]

Well that would be against everything I've heard him saying about wanting to make the hardware open source as well. If nobody can use the design or part of it, what's the point? And he's fine with resellers of units he should be fine with reselling parts of it in another design. ED should definitely think about hardware licenses in that case then. Like requiring disclosure and forcing derivative works designed off of or included in the final product be open sourced as well, sort of a hardware GPL.

 

[Natsu]

What's the price of 3G vs 4G, again?

Sectron is a reseller that has the PHS8-E (3G) for 57 EUR and the PLS8-E (4G) for 105 EUR. The PLS8-P is not available there but is probably going to be just a little more expensive, similar to the PHS8-E vs the PHS8-P; ED can probably also get better prices than this, but the difference should be in the same ballpark, around 40 or 50 EUR between 3G and 4G.

Man, this thing is making Pyra expensive, but I think it's worth it.

 

[WizardStan]

Man, this thing is making Pyra expensive, but I think it's worth it

Fortunately EvilDragon wants to make it an optional component: if you don't want or need it you don't have to pay for it. If you do want it, features gonna cost you no matter what they are. And yeah, I agree, very worth it (or it would be to me if he had the PLS8, the PHS8 doesn't work on my carrier )

 

[Natsu]

Fortunately EvilDragon wants to make it an optional component: if you don't want or need it you don't have to pay for it. If you do want it, features gonna cost you no matter what they are. And yeah, I agree, very worth it (or it would be to me if he had the PLS8, the PHS8 doesn't work on my carrier )

Same here. Need PLS8, so it can completely work on mine. I'm probably going to get the Pyra and wait to upgrade directly to 4G.

 

[God Ginrai]

My intent for replacing the CPU board would be to get the A80 when it became available.

You will be creating an A80 daughter-board yourself? otherwise you're making assumptions of EDs plans.

EvilDragon mentions right here that this would be for upgrading to newer SoCs:

As mentioned, we're planning to put the CPU together with the memory and storage on a pluggable daughterboard.

This saves money in production (since the mainboard will be two-layer and only the small CPU board needs to be more complex), and it adds the possibility to upgrade the Pyra in the future with whatever SoC / memory / storage will become available in the future.

Considering the number of people who want the A80, I don't think it's wrong to assume that EvilDragon may later consider making a daughter board based on it.

-God Ginrai

 

[Yoyobuae]

Well that would be against everything I've heard him saying about wanting to make the hardware open source as well. If nobody can use the design or part of it, what's the point?

Even if anyone is "allowed to" do so, that doesn't mean that someone would be both "capable and willing to" do it.

 

[God Ginrai]

Well that would be against everything I've heard him saying about wanting to make the hardware open source as well. If nobody can use the design or part of it, what's the point?

Even if anyone is "allowed to" do so, that doesn't mean that someone would be both "capable and willing to" do it.

Pretty sure he was responding to your "I wonder" comment.

-God Ginrai

 

[Yoyobuae]

Oh nvm then, I got confused.