Ubuntu On Pandora

[Sphinxter]

Man that is so last week, did you check out his android project;
http://www.omegamoon.com/blog/static.php?page=ZaurusAndroid

 

[atomicthumbs]

Side note: I run KDE with Ion3. Weird, but it works very well.

 

[robyinno]

With my Zaurus Sl-1000 I use pdaXii13 that is light distro of gnu/linux, is derived from pdaxrom,

This can be another option, is more optimized for this little devices, than Ubuntu, anyway I hope that Mojo project have prepared a strip down version of Ubuntu, and sure the guy that port Mojo for Zaurus have choose at the moment Icewm, (Pdaxrom use OpenBox).

From my point of you what is very important it's have a big repository of packages to install and up to date, and sure a gnu/linux distro essential in term of services, daemons, kernel modules, windows/desktop manager, etc...

So I appreciate the porting of Ubuntu, but I image a light Ubuntu, and optimaized for Omap3.
Anyway for me doesn't matter if it will be derived from Ubuntu,Debian or others distro.
Anyway I looking to OpenPandora as a successor of Zaurus, I want to use like a tiny subnotebook.

Greetings

Roberto

 

[Samalthos]

I like the KDE GUI more and I'd really like to see it on pandora and then my dad who absolutley adores KDE might consider buying himself AND me one therefore I won't have to spend my precious money :/

KDE ALL THE WAY!

 

[sindbad]

I like the KDE GUI more and I'd really like to see it on pandora and then my dad who absolutley adores KDE might consider buying himself AND me one therefore I won't have to spend my precious money :/
It's entirely possible, since kde4 even runs on 299mhz cell phones (neo 1973).

 

[ssj195]

I like the KDE GUI more and I'd really like to see it on pandora and then my dad who absolutley adores KDE might consider buying himself AND me one therefore I won't have to spend my precious money :/
It's entirely possible, since kde4 even runs on 299mhz cell phones (neo 1973).

Qt4 is, on balance, (and contrary to popular belief) more RAM heavy than Qt3 due to the constant double-buffering of all widgets, so the 128MB RAM might be a bottleneck if you have more than a few apps open, especially if one of those apps is a web browser.

KDE3 should be OK, though

 

[Squidge]

Nothing prevents a custom OS from showing it off... But, um, what OS is that? I've asked, and many others have to, what the GUI is going to be like for the Pandora - and nobody has said shit.

Do you need reminding that the Pandora isn't finished yet? Some people don't like posting screenshots and information until something is actually completed, or close to completion.

A up-to-date modern desktop operating system - does. It's a "wow factor" thing. I can do anything with this andora1: - that you can do with that - {insert big clunky desktop photo here}. And I can do that without having to write our own OS? That's a good thing.

I'd say it would be quite the opposite. Putting a modern PC desktop OS on the Pandora will give you slow bootup times, slow performance in X, and will use up a lot of valuable memory that could be used for more important things. Desktop OS's are designed for PC's with processor speeds in the Ghz and a typical memory footprint of 512MB or above. (Yes, I am aware you can run some distro's with less, which is why I said 'designed')

no shit. But if I can install Ubuntu - Gnome comes with it. Therefore, if Ubuntu is ported to the Pandora, I have Gnome, hence a ready made GUI.

Or you could just install Gnome yourself on any distribution. Gnome isn't exclusive to Ubuntu.

Nokia is spending tons of money porting Ubuntu and tens of thousands of packages to the ARM platform,

Yup, it costs a lot to type "./configure -target=arm-none-gnueabi-linux && make" into a shell window

specifically for their N-Series tablets. I'm sure some of those ports include games, (I say that since there

Now thats more like it, they are customising apps for there own platform. Kinda different to just porting to the ARM platform, and less useful for other devices, like the Pandora.

Someone just said what do we get if we Ubuntu. I answered. You don't want Ubuntu - don't install it.

Most of your answers to that question don't make sense however. There are other ARM-based distro's that give you access to thousands of libraries, GUIs, and the ability for people who don't yet have Pandora hardware to make software for it, and pre-built emulators and games. What does Ubuntu give us that other distributions do not?

 

[Patrick R Ludvigsen]

I would prefer http://www.armedslack.org/

But hey, any major Linux distribution running on a handheld would be astounding.

 

[slint]

Debian already runs on ARM and ARM EABI

h34r:

 

[chad78]

Yup, it costs a lot to type "./configure -target=arm-none-gnueabi-linux && make" into a shell window

Yeah, it sure does when you use a room full of servers to do it that over and over again, tens of thousands of times, for tens of thousands of packages.

QUOTE

Now thats more like it, they are customising apps for there own platform. Kinda different to just porting to the ARM platform, and less useful for other devices, like the Pandora.



The Nokia N-Series tablets (google them) are very much the same hardware as the Pandora - same type of processor (it's just a less powerful ARM), same resolution of touchscreen (just 4.1" instead of 4.3"), similiar thumb QWERTY keyboard, similiar size - battery life is a concern for them too, they have a D-Pad...

I'd say anything a N800 or N810 can run - Pandora should be able to run no problem.

QUOTE

Most of your answers to that question don't make sense however. There are other ARM-based distro's that give you access to thousands of libraries, GUIs, and the ability for people who don't yet have Pandora hardware to make software for it, and pre-built emulators and games. What does Ubuntu give us that other distributions do not?



No - they do make sense if you would step out of your little bubble. To most of the world, Ubuntu means something. Linux can be anything. I know a guy who literally installed Linux on his *TOASTER* so he could program it when to make toast in the morning. (I assume he pre-loaded the bread the night before.) Saying "Hey, my ____ runs Linux!" is very different than saying "Hey, my ___ runs Ubuntu!"

It's like the difference between saying, my 286 runs Windows! and my 286 runs Vista! The first one is not impressive - Windows was around long before the 286. But saying you somehow got Vista to run on that!!! That's impressive.

Are there other distros out there? Shit yes! Over 400 registered distros the last time I read about it. But people know the name "Ubuntu". They don't know "Xenoppix" or "K12LTSP" or "Taprobane" - and yes, those are all real distros - and they are all English distros at that.

So, what do we get with Ubuntu that we don't get with SliTaz? Name recognition, exposure, a very likely front page story on digg (or two), another Engadget article, buzz, press, free word of mouth advertising....

Get the picture?

 

[sindbad]

Seriously, Ubuntu is overkill. This particular device has a very particular primary purpose.

However, since apt will (probably) be used, it's not too unrealistic to think of using the ubuntu repos.

 

[Squidge]

QUOTE
So, what do we get with Ubuntu that we don't get with SliTaz? Name recognition, exposure, a very likely front page story on digg (or two), another Engadget article, buzz, press, free word of mouth advertising....


Sure, but think of it from another angle. Word gets out that Pandora runs Ubuntu. An engadget article appears. Soon after, a magazine reviews the device running that distro and slams it, due to the fact that its not designed for such hardware and as such runs slow and can't run a lot of software due to all the background tasks stealing the memory. The low review score turns hundred of potential buyers away.

Compare that to a tuned custom installation designed for the hardware. The thing boots up in seconds and flies along. Much more positive.

If you want to run Ubuntu, fine, but don't try to run a bloated desktop distro - find a mobile version.

Sometimes it's better to not run something at all, then to run it like a dog.

 

[Sphinxter]

Yeah, it sure does when you use a room full of servers to do it that over and over again, tens of thousands of times, for tens of thousands of packages.

Debian arm is more like 16,000 packages and there are automated build systems in wide use to deal with the drudgery.

 

[DJWillis]

Sometimes it's better to not run something at all, then to run it like a dog.

Agreed, look at it this way.

Ubuntu ARMEL builds will run on the Pandora (mind you I would want to rebuild it all with ARMv7 for a start) but it will have lots of rough edges, you will have to use a lighter weight window manager if you don't want it slower the a slow thing and many other tweaks to make it usable. By the time you have done that you may as well have stuck with a Buildroot or Open Embedded based ROOTFS (as we are doing).

Give it a year or so for the mobile ARMEL 'forks' of the major distros to take shape and the situation becomes very different. By then with any luck everything Pandora will be nice and mature and you could just flash or run your distro of choice off an SD. Hell, with any luck those projects may just start to produce Pandora supported 'images'. Now that would be nice.

Anyway, as it stands, Pandora is open, anybody can and will flash whatever they want to there units but for the supported default system it has to be kept clean, fast, slick and simple. If somebody wants to sort Ubuntu good luck to them (and I am genuinely happy to advise/help) but it's not the aim of us working on getting the project out the door.

 

[chad78]

Ubuntu ARMEL builds will run on the Pandora (mind you I would want to rebuild it all with ARMv7 for a start) but it will have lots of rough edges, you will have to use a lighter weight window manager if you don't want it slower the a slow thing and many other tweaks to make it usable. By the time you have done that you may as well have stuck with a Buildroot or Open Embedded based ROOTFS (as we are doing).

Nokia is having Ubuntu recompiled for a - get this now - a slower ARM powered UMPC. If it will run on something that is far slower (400 Mhz TI OMAP 2420 to be precise) - and you know Nokia isn't going to pay to have something ported to their system that will run like ass. It will be something usable on the N8X0 tablets. If it runs on them - then it will run *better* on the Pandora, who starts at 600 Mhz and has been reported as being overclockable to 900 Mhz. (Source for the CPU on the N800 - same CPU on the N810 & WiMax Edition.)

 

[sindbad]

Ubuntu mobile may be optimised for an internet tablet, but certainly not for a gaming console. It may work well, but it may very well not.

What advantage is there to using ubuntu? The pandora will have something based on debian anyway, and debian/ubuntu repositories/packages may be usable with/without modification.

 

[Sphinxter]

I don't think anyone mentioned the zaurus has double the ram and a hard drive.

 

[Chip]

Chad, have you installed Ubuntu on your N800 yet? Give it a shot and let us know what the performance is like. I suspect it is not exactly snappy on the Nokia tablets (xubuntu on my 1GHz PIII laptop is disappointingly sluggish) and it won't be that much better on Pandora. If the device is struggling just to keep up with the demands of the OS, how is it going to fare running demanding applications on top of it? Just because you can run a full desktop OS on something that wasn't designed for it, doesn't necessarily mean it'll run well.

Like DJW said, there's nothing stopping anybody from making a *buntu port for Pandora. I'm sure somebody will sooner or later. It just isn't in anybody's best interest to prioritize that over a simple, fast UI that just does what most people need it to do - select applications quickly and efficiently.

 

[chad78]

Chad, have you installed Ubuntu on your N800 yet? Give it a shot and let us know what the performance is like. I suspect it is not exactly snappy on the Nokia tablets (xubuntu on my 1GHz PIII laptop is disappointingly sluggish) and it won't be that much better on Pandora. If the device is struggling just to keep up with the demands of the OS, how is it going to fare running demanding applications on top of it? Just because you can run a full desktop OS on something that wasn't designed for it, doesn't necessarily mean it'll run well.



No, I haven't - I'm actually getting rid of my N800 in expectation of the Pandora. I'm trading it for an Eee PC. I'm shipping it out tomorrow, so I won't have a chance to test it. But, according to Linuevices.com, the Nokia sponsored ARM port of Ubuntu was able to run GIMP on an N800 very well. GIMP is pretty much a resource hog, so running it on, again what is a much less powerful device, is a pretty good indication that it would work well on Pandora.

Again, I'm not saying Ubuntu should be the default OS. (Personally, I think Maemo should be.) But I don't get the hostility to someone doing a proof-of-concept type thing and running Ubuntu on the Pandora.

What I'd like to see / do is install Ubuntu - gut an old computer case - stick the Pandora inside, have the monitor, keyboard, and mouse cables running into the box, sit there running Ubuntu off the what looks like a normal computer, and then open the box and take out the Pandora, revealing the true source of the power. I think that would make a great YouTube promo for the Pandora. Nothing official, necessarily, just buzz-worthy.

 

[DJWillis]

Nokia is having Ubuntu recompiled for a - get this now - a slower ARM powered UMPC. If it will run on something that is far slower (400 Mhz TI OMAP 2420 to be precise) - and you know Nokia isn't going to pay to have something ported to their system that will run like ass. It will be something usable on the N8X0 tablets. If it runs on them - then it will run *better* on the Pandora, who starts at 600 Mhz and has been reported as being overclockable to 900 Mhz. (Source for the CPU on the N800 - same CPU on the N810 & WiMax Edition.)



Wow thanks for pointing that out (beats forehead on desk ). I think you may have over estimated the Nokia input to the MOJO project.

Nokia are offering some hardware to the MOJO project and letting Andrew Christian (ex. CRL/DEC/Compaq) and others spend some paid time on it. Most people consider this a 'hedge' project to test the waters and the MOJO project is in no way Nokia exclusive (there ARM compile farm boxes are not Nokia even as I understand it).

If Nokia wanted Ubuntu over Maemo in a big way they would bank roll/partner with Canonical and there own embedded projects. This like many things is somebody's plaything for now. It will become more useful but its not there yet.

Even the MOJO project (http://mojo.handhelds.org/) states

QUOTE
Now it's true that running an entire GNOME or KDE desktop distribution on small-screen device is probably not a great idea. But having a consistent and large set of compiled binary packages with appropriate security and bug-fix feeds---now that's useful.


I completely agree with that statement.
Please do not expect full on Ubuntu on Pandora of the N8** tablets for that matter in any really usable form just yet.