The PawByte Codenamed "Flyght" Console

[Exophase]

so is the pandora(atleast for the most part)...

Now you're just trolling. Nothing about the Pandora is based on generic PC hardware and you know it, unless your idea of a generic PC is a DS-sized clamshell with a keyboard and gaming controls.

Binky is saying that the combination of those three things doesn't work. He's implying that 1 and 2 could work if the price was somehow low enough, or that a high price could work if it offered something uniquely useful. The point is just common sense, why buy a more expensive version of something that offers nothing over what you can build yourself or buy from a lot of other places?

I feel kind of bad that theweirdn8 is getting increasingly harsh feedback since he's been patient and respectful and seems like a nice enough guy, definitely don't see any malicious intent. But at the same time I think it'll be better for him in the long run if he greatly reassesses what he's doing because it'll probably be a net loss for him. I think the root problem is he's romanticizing what a console is.. that it adds something special to one's games when it's being ran on a box made just for it. I don't know if this is fueled by nostalgia and a desire to return to how gaming felt in the 80s and 90s or what, but mixing nostalgia and obsolete points of view with business ventures is a dangerous combination.

If his group released some amazing games first then people might at least take him more seriously, even if they still wouldn't necessarily buy a console. But promoting it before there are games to be shown, on the premise that great games will come later, is not accomplishing anything. I get the idea that if he waits it'll seem less unique but frankly I don't see how it could really seem any less than it already does.. and if there's going to be this flurry of other consoles coming out later then it isn't going to matter to anyone who had an idea first.

 

[Asiyura]

I agree with you, Exophase, theweirdn8 seems like a nice guy, and I feel kinda bad criticizing him and his projects.

We just want to make him understand that his console "concept" isn't sturdy enough.

Right now, he looks like he wants to produce an arch-linux computer with off-shelves components. The only parts custom made would be the joypads (there are LOADS of really good ones) and the case…

I agree, PS4 and next XBOX are basically computers with custom cases too, but no only that. They come with a complete ecosystem : custom-made hardware (the joypads, the motherboard and IIRC the GPU too), software (company-made firmware) and well-known game studios that they know will make popular games (popular doesn't mean good, just that it'll sell well). This is not simply a computer in a custom case with slightly modified mainstream linux distro and low quality games. Sorry about the last part, but even for an indie game, the graphics you've shown for your "fields of fresh" game are subpar. 

And it comes from someone that loves to play 8 bits games that use only a bunch of pixels to draw Mario, Kirby or Sonic…

(the video on kickstarter doesn't show a lot about the gameplay, what I've seen on it doesn't make me want to buy the game)

 

[Wrath Of Khan]

i agree  or i dont see any malicious intent either, just nothing concrete or convincing yet.

Perhaps when the weird and 8 has something concrete to show then he should start doing pr.

 

[theweirdn8]

Guys, thank you for the honest feedback. 

The selling point to dev is cost to develop for a CONSOLE(not smartphone or PC), SDK, and a pricing decisions we think is best for the industry which is leaving the ball into the hands of developers.

I have an obligation to finish Fields of Fresh,so with that note I will be hosting a live Q and A similar to what happened on March 14th via our twitch.tv account on Sunday night(8:30pm CST). There we can help each other change the industry for the good together.

We are not ignoring any feedback, we know it is indeed a hard task and we are applying Adam's Smith division of labor to ensure things are done in a proper manner. 

Gamers rejoice, exclusives will come, just can't announce too many in this pre-kickstarter phase.

 

[Exophase]

I agree, PS4 and next XBOX are basically computers with custom cases too, but no only that.

That's a popular sentiment, but that's really not the case. While it uses GPU and CPU designs you can find in off the shelf parts it puts them in a single chip configuration that's nothing like anything you can buy. They also come with custom solutions for memory; both use unified RAM of much higher bandwidth than what you can get in an off the shelf APU (particularly in Sony's case) and MS uses embedded SRAM to augment graphics throughput. The CPUs they use are a pretty bad choice for a general purpose PC but are fairly reasonable for a console.

All of this plus Sony and MS's traditionally aggressive pricing plans allows consoles to give you a much higher value for what you pay for than a PC today can.

 

[Asiyura]

That's a popular sentiment, but that's really not the case. While it uses GPU and CPU designs you can find in off the shelf parts it puts them in a single chip configuration that's nothing like anything you can buy. They also come with custom solutions for memory; both use unified RAM of much higher bandwidth than what you can get in an off the shelf APU (particularly in Sony's case) and MS uses embedded SRAM to augment graphics throughput. The CPUs they use are a pretty bad choice for a general purpose PC but are fairly reasonable for a console.


All of this plus Sony and MS's traditionally aggressive pricing plans allows consoles to give you a much higher value for what you pay for than a PC today can.

I wasn't aware that it was customized to this point, but I knew it wouldn't be off-the-shelves components. I mean, if you were able to easily make a console with parts bought from you local computer store, there wouldn't be consoles anymore

Yep, Microsoft and Sony tend to sell their consoles quite below the producing price, since they know they'll be able to get back lots of money with games, accessories and subscriptions for online services.

 

[moxie]

Guys, thank you for the honest feedback. 

The selling point to dev is cost to develop for a CONSOLE(not smartphone or PC), SDK, and a pricing decisions we think is best for the industry which is leaving the ball into the hands of developers.

This is still not making any sense. It is just like you're stringing random words together that seem to have some sort of related meaning.

 

[Binky]

(reworded&repeated for better clarity)

A successful computing device must have at least one of:

• Better hardware
• More High-quality software
• Better value-for-money

...than comparable devices

• The pawbyte is standard PC hardware (not the best available either)
• There is no real evidence that it will attract a significant ammount of good, exclusive games
• As a niche, low volume product, it is bound to be on the expensive side

This is why I think it is unlikely to sell well.

@thewierdn8:

Please don't answer by saying " thank you for the feedback"

Vague talk about consoles, open development, and the best pricing does not address my point

 

[theweirdn8]

Hello Binky,

We do not want to preach higher end specs. We do want to preach the later of the two options. PawByte is developing 1st Party games, which will be around 7 exclusive first party games at launch alone from us. Also, we have been in talks with many developers, who haven't ported their PC Game or current game in development to anything. We are striking up deals and we willl show you that list VERY SOON once everything is worked out. Your second point is based on what game developers select to price their games as.

As it stands, the current gen systems are very difficult for many indie devs to get noticed on and we intend to fix that with a more PC type store in which SDK is free, but we share in your profit in glory. Also, we are not planning to go niche at all, we simply are posting here the most since the OpenPandora is doing what we're doing on a niche scale. 

Our console idea was very similar to the new consoles being launched this year, but we are focusing on proliferating Open Source, Educaton and reasonable pricing. 

My team is doing the best they can to keep the process as hasslefree as possible to launch a game onto the system.

I have a busy day today and tomorrow, so I hope to see you all at the live Q and A tomorrow.

 

[Ian J]

What's annoying me now is that I'm usually excited by new hardware / tech even if it's something I'm not going to buy.

On this occasion I just feel meh nothing about this is making me want to pursue the project any further.

 

[comradekingu]

Ok, here goes. What you see here is a group of very distinctly critical people. The possibly hardest people in the world to sell a console to. Poor as mustard many of them, and fed up with what the old and lazy big devs bring out. They know their stuff. They are in the market, but not just for anyhting, if you want to fit that bill you better listen closely. You should know better than to discredit them with hype.

This is 2013, go with free software, open mentality, non-exclusivity.

If i want a good computer, i will buy one, I want to pick my own distro, if your controller is nice i will use it, don't bundle me on other hardware that is in turn bundled with other software.

Sure, you could do it all and i'll take the lot, meanwhile, thats not what i'm seeing. Hype has a negative effect on people who know better than to fall for it.

Bring back old gaming, hard games, small studios, share-culture. Gaming is an art.

 

[theweirdn8]

Understood, please note we're in pre-alpha phase still and we're working to ensure we have great games, engines and software for the system.

If you will like to help develop the system and/or software please let us know.

Also, due to PAX EAST and GDC we will NOT have the Live Q and A tomorrow.

 

[Wrath Of Khan]

@the weird an8. Keep us posted when you have more concrete stuff to show. Also it might be a good idea to introduce one of your team members to this thread too. Someone with lots of technical knowledge and who would be involved in the hardware side of the console. get them to join the forums here perhaps. Im no technical guy but lots of guys on this forum are so it might be a good idea.

It might be a good idea to define what your console will be, specs, software, strengths, weaknesses, original or diffrentiating features, that sort of thing. Then you will have something that people can weigh up and get a bead on. Anyways good luck with your endeavours.

 

[theweirdn8]

Thanks,

Will be posting more information soon in the days/week to come.

This user feedback is tremendous. 

Who here is a game developer by the way?

 

[Binky]

1. good...
2. You've said that before, but seem to consistently fail to explain or address points raised
3. You could look at repo.openpandora.org for names, but please don't spam everyone with requests to dev for you

 

[theweirdn8]

Thanks Binky.

The goal of this console is to make it easier for devs and gamers to access and create games, proliferate Open Source in a commercial manner, build new strong non-bought out IPs in the process, present a flexible and scalable pricing model to developers and also expand the industry(this includes the expansion to help girls and older people become gamers).

There is more too, but until our prototype is done shouldn't throw it all out without you being able to view it.

 

[moxie]

You're still saying nothing of substance.

 

[sswam]

If I was going to make a new console, it would certainly use PC hardware.

The massive advantage with PC hardware, is that you can run the vast range of existing PC games.

Not to mention emulators, web browsers, office suites, various alternative operating systems...

I'd be happy to buy a stylish little PC/console with nice controllers that will plug into my TV.  Good luck with building one!

As I understand, Valve is making a console based on PC hardware which will run Linux and Steam,

and should show up some time this year.  This confirms to me that a PC console is a good idea.

 

[Binky]

...and a damned hard market to enter on a shoestring!

 

[Klumpen]

I have got no TV, has it got an inbuild beamer/projector?

BTW: 1st  of April is over