The Ninja's Design...

[Ringo]

After all this talk about the GPX2 and XGP - I suddently remember the Ninja Project and checked up on their status... And it looks like it's progressing nicely.
I don't know if mr. Mirko at all has had any thoughts about design yet, but I just had a thought.

To further differ the Ninja form the two Gamepark's projects (yeah, it sound stupid, but you know what I mean), I think it should have 6 front-face buttons.
The purpose is obvious, but I really think it could offer a useful controlscheme for a lot more than Mega Drive emulation. This design has not really been seen on a portable since the Sega Nomad (duh)

I guess you could have the 2 outer buttons be smaller than the other, so you could disregard them in something like SNES emulation... I donno...

Looking at the Ninja's website, I don't know if anybody at the Ninja-team is thinking in terms of design, but I hope they will notice this post.

Actually I would love to hear other people surgestions on this subject.

 

[BobBorakovitz]

I always found 6 buttons for 1 thumb too much, I own a Sega Nomad and used the normal Sega 6 Button controllers..
On an arcade panel it's a totally different story, you have 4 fingers to press them all. (Most people do, at least)

I think 4 face buttons and 2 shoulder buttons are MUCH more comfortable, IMO...

 

[Pulstar]

Do you have a link to this Ninja Project?

 

[foft]

http://ninja.gp32x.de/

I am quite excited about it. Bit concerned that Mirko hasn't updated since the news of the GPX2's imminent release. The cpu on the Ninja has freely available specs and is faster.

Mark

 

[x68000]

after constant updates every few days, there has been silence for over a month now. seems a little worrying.

Maybe mr mirko may be waiting to see what the gpx2 is going to be able to pull off before he commits any further as i doubt 2 handhelds of similar performance (which may be the case if the gpx2 2d handling helps) and both fighting for the same niche market could both exist alongside each other.

 

[EvilDragon]

Mirko wants to finish this project regardless what handheld comes out.

But he certainly does have problems getting the needed pieces (processor, etc.) from Samsung, as you need to buy at least 10.000 each...

 

[Squidge]

Instead of 6 buttons, how about 10?

left side of the screen would have digital jotstick and four action buttons near the bottom (perfect for playing those games that require 90 degree rotation).

right side would have four action buttons near the top, for the games that work best in landscape mode (ie, no rotation).

start & select could be on the top or bottom frame, as they wouldnt normally require constant access.

 

[BobBorakovitz]

Instead of 6 buttons, how about 10?

left side of the screen would have digital jotstick and four action buttons near the bottom (perfect for playing those games that require 90 degree rotation).

right side would have four action buttons near the top, for the games that work best in landscape mode (ie, no rotation).

start & select could be on the top or bottom frame, as they wouldnt normally require constant access.

Beautiful! Now we're talking!
I'd love to see some pics of it, I can't wait with all this handheld gaming madness!

 

[reaper79]

Instead of 6 buttons, how about 10?

left side of the screen would have digital jotstick and four action buttons near the bottom (perfect for playing those games that require 90 degree rotation).

right side would have four action buttons near the top, for the games that work best in landscape mode (ie, no rotation).

start & select could be on the top or bottom frame, as they wouldnt normally require constant access.

​

There was another handheld like that... wasn't it the NeoGeo Pocket??

 

[Ringo]

I always found 6 buttons for 1 thumb too much, I own a Sega Nomad and used the normal Sega 6 Button controllers.. 
On an arcade panel it's a totally different story, you have 4 fingers to press them all.  (Most people do, at least)

I think 4 face buttons and 2 shoulder buttons are MUCH more comfortable, IMO...

​

I actually agree with you, and I didn't actually mean you should get rid of the shoulder buttons. All modern games needs their triggers.

However for the best VSfighter-games a 6 button layout really works better. Think Street Fighter and Killer Instinct...

Actually the way MD-emulation works on the GP32 regarding the 3-button-layout, is in my eyes perfect. It really doesn't bother me that the 3rd another "type" of button. In the same way i guess you could have 2 function-buttons. That way you could dis-regard these for "normal" gameplay.

It anoys me a bit that the white and black buttons on the X-box controller are not pulled up next to the other 4 buttons... This is not only regarding MD-emulation but emulation i general.

@ Squidge:
I'm not entirely sure if you're being sarcastic or not. I was just posting an idea I found feasable... and not too far fetched.

 

[Tobriand]

Likewise re: Squidge being sarcastic, but to be fair, why *not* 10, if they can be fitted in without the whole thing looking - and feeling - too cluttered?

Numbers of buttons are constantly an issue - ok, not a gread deal on the GP32 because the only console that uses consistently more buttone than are available is the good ole SNES (MD games do, of course, but not very many of them).

But, that said, the Ninja is aiming to be a 400MHz powerhouse... that implies there might be a possibility - albeit perhaps a remote one - of PSX emulation and/or N64... both of which have insane numbers of buttons, most of which are used. And of course, a lot of us want vertical MAME to be accessible in a way that's comfortable. Which means more - or at least, oddly positioned - buttons.

Ok, perhaps more than 10 is insane for cluttery issues, but if 10 is possible I'd be more than behind it.

BTW: The console you're thinking of reaper is the Lynx, which unfortunately did - at least to an outsider - appear to fall into the cluttery trap... NGP was just 2 buttons and a mysterious "option" one... and it still roced the pants off so many other consoles!

 

[Tidus]

Instead of 6 buttons, how about 10?

left side of the screen would have digital jotstick and four action buttons near the bottom (perfect for playing those games that require 90 degree rotation).

right side would have four action buttons near the top, for the games that work best in landscape mode (ie, no rotation).

start & select could be on the top or bottom frame, as they wouldnt normally require constant access.

​

There was another handheld like that... wasn't it the NeoGeo Pocket??

​

no, surely you're talking about the Bandai console named Wonderswan

Lynx got only 4 buttons in fact in total & can be "reversed" for left handled guys ...

I really love this little machine & I think the idea to be able to use it in vertical position perfectly is marvellous so that's definitly a great idea for emulation

 

[Squidge]

I wasn't actually being sarcastic, if the buttons could be added without looking stupid, then it would allow for "normal" games and vertical mame game, as well as give us more buttons for specific emulation tasks such as snes, or could possibly even be used for quick access to some emulator features such as load/save state, pause and so on.

 

[Lurky]

Speaking of the xbox controller I always thought it would make a good handheld setup. Pretty much just an Xbox controller-S with a 3.5 screen were the big XBOX logo is.

The two analog sticks and the trigger buttons would mean you'd be set even for First Person Shooters, add wifi and you'd have the perfect rig to attempt a handheld quake deathmatch.

Just a Pipedream naturally.

 

[Muzzaro]

I know this is going to sound rude (I am sorry in advance), but i thought the ninja project was created, so that people had a "gp32 sequal", to take the whole homebrew/emu further. Now we have a sequal (or two), do we still need this Ninja handheld?

I mean, from my point of view, Q4 2005, i'll have the choice between PSP and GPx2. I'll probably go for the latter, because new games don't really impress me that much compared to alot of emu stuff, and this whole battle with Sony vs "hackers" is rather worrying. But if i'm sitting here with my GPx2 (like i imagine alot of people will do), why would i need a "ninja"? I could imagine it's use if it was aiming to be better than the GPx2, but with half the ram, no touch screen, and around the same CPU as the GPx2, isn't it going to be the inferior choice?

Again, i'm sorry if this seems offensive. I'm just trying to understand why.

 

[moz]

I know this is going to sound rude (I am sorry in advance), but i thought the ninja project was created, so that people had a "gp32 sequal", to take the whole homebrew/emu further. Now we have a sequal (or two), do we still need this Ninja handheld?

I mean, from my point of view, Q4 2005, i'll have the choice between PSP and GPx2. I'll probably go for the latter, because new games don't really impress me that much compared to alot of emu stuff, and this whole battle with Sony vs "hackers" is rather worrying. But if i'm sitting here with my GPx2 (like i imagine alot of people will do), why would i need a "ninja"? I could imagine it's use if it was aiming to be better than the GPx2, but with half the ram, no touch screen, and around the same CPU as the GPx2, isn't it going to be the inferior choice?

Again, i'm sorry if this seems offensive. I'm just trying to understand why.

​

why?, because they can

 

[trooper]

Handhelds are like holidays, You can never have too many handhelds, Just ask bast.

Yes, I agree, Because they can.

Trooper

 

[Tobriand]

Not only because they can, I would tend to think, but because if its a success, it would be unprecendentedly cool - a console not designed on what is feasable for a company, but on what the devers who want to hack about with it say they want in the thing.

Even the GP32 didn't do this - it just became something along those lines along the way to what it is today; it was *designed* for commercial thingamies.

Personally, I just think there's something extremely cool about a community building its own successor rather than leaving it up to a company.

 

[Squidge]

I think Mirko will be attempting to complete his Ninja project regardless of whether people want it or not. There's not many people that can proudly claim that they built there own powerful handheld console from scratch when attending job interviews for example. The most I've seen is either really basic computers, as in a 2x16 character display with a few buttons, and the processor is few mhz pic or atmel avr.

The problem will be obtaining the parts mirko requires for his project, as IC's such as the 400Mhz Samsung isn't meant for hobbyist-type projects, and thus is difficult to get hold of in small quantities.

 

[Prophet]

If Mirko could partner and/or sell his concept to a real company to produce in quantity, I would be more interested in it.

But for now it just seems like a really cool hobbyist project that I will never actually be able to own or use. Kinda like those portable versions of consoles that one guy makes (i.e. the handheld NeoGeo AES with LCD screen etc.).