The nD

[foxblock]

You remember bob's game? The one-man-against-the-world project which never really got anywhere.


Well actually the creator, Robert Pelloni, released a demo some time ago - you will have trouble finding it on the web, so I put it here: Download


Now he is back with the nD - a ultra-cheap indie gaming console/handheld for the masses.


It is supposed to only cost $10-$20 dollars (as it will be sold at cost!), which apparently is achieved by using really old hardware components (like in the Pandora - nah, I am kidding, even older ).


His vision is to create a full eco-system of games (like the Apple AppStore) on a handheld everyone can buy - to counter the overpriced devices you currently find on the market.


The nD is supposed to run 16-bit games of 320x240 resolution made in SDL, but as it will be so cheap hardware and software iterations "can be done easily".


Oh and: It has BUTTONS!...


You can find more info about this crazy plan on the website

https://www.youtube.com/embed/wDOoAw_YajU?feature=oembed

So what do you think? Ingenious idea which will change the market, just another niche device or just a crazy fantasy which will never see the light of day?

 

[meandu229]

Would like to see it become real but they will no doubt like the pandora need alot of backing/preorders,


Ill get one if they come around

 

[Trip]

Looks interesting and could work.


It's that cheap enough that most developers would probably buy one just to mess about with the hardware alone.


As long as it does what it's made to do, I don't see it having a problem


EDIT: I also like the fact that it can be used as a controller for your PC too with the ability for the screen to show added relevant info (scoreboards etc.) whilst your playing. This is the sort of thing that I wanted from the Pandora to begin with but still hasn't materialised.


SECOND EDIT: They haven't done them selves any favours with that first video, it's the worst I've ever seen and the most annoying by far.


THIRD EDIT: If he's not going to make any money from the hardware itself he should just open the specs completely and let companies make their own versions of the device. He should create a base standard of the hardware and just approve versions that comply with that standard 100%.


This would save a lot of hassle.


As it is he doesn't seem to be factoring in shipping charges or anything :unsure:

 

[foxblock]

To me it seems like an interesting concept. Not sure whether it is possible, though.


If it works and if it succeeds it will be a nice slap in the face of ever big game company.


But at the same time it might just as well fail horribly.


For the record, I just submitted my very own Greyout for the game showcase, we will see how it goes

 

[EvilDragon]

Well, seeing how much parts do cost these days (it's nigh impossible getting a half-decent LCD, a proper SoC, Bluetooth and a battery for 20 USD), I think it will never see the light of the day, but it it does, I'll surely will try to sell it in my shop

 

[GiraffeeDreams]

I was reading a bit on the site, they plan on having retailers able to sell their own branded versions, so an OpenPandora nD


I like the idea but like ED says, it's difficult to find the major parts cheaply, the 16bit does intrigue me but that's because I am a Sega MegaDrive nut I'm a sucker for pixels.

 

[WizardStan]

For the record, I just submitted my very own Greyout for the game showcase, we will see how it goes

You mean this Greyout?


That was fast.


edit: or is that some kind of automated system he's got that puts it to the page as soon as you posted it? Guess that would kind of make sense too.

 

[foxblock]

For the record, I just submitted my very own Greyout for the game showcase, we will see how it goes

You mean this Greyout?


That was fast.


edit: or is that some kind of automated system he's got that puts it to the page as soon as you posted it? Guess that would kind of make sense too.

No actually it had to be manually approved, but it only took him about 4 minutes


Btw, the "SDK" and overall info is a bit... "blurry" to put it lightly http://the-nd.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=4

 

[GiraffeeDreams]

I would absolutely love for the nD to work, they're definitely enthusiastic, I can see the price jumping but the central app store could be a major draw.

 

[mindlord]

He'll have to redesign that cross-pad style D-Pad unless he plans on paying the "enemy."

 

[Exophase]

That he actually thinks $10 (or even $20) is possible (as is claimed on the Wiki) shows just how clueless he is. He's even saying he's going to include wifi with that.


Saying that Dingoo is "cheap to make" but not "sold cheap" is insulting to a platform that's really pushing the boundaries of low margins. And Wiz/Caanoo only get "sorta" for open dev tools.


And this isn't a charity device done by one person. They want to obtain investors and hire people while selling a console at cost, and making revenue off of nothing more than 10% of app sales. And the one game that's most likely to generate sales is being bundled with the console. Which, btw, indicates that the console will come with storage.


Then there's simply audacious stuff like this:


"our Game Store will have several measures in place to combat saturation and quality issues. new developers will be required to upgrade and improve their titles often in order to keep them from expiring. this means your purchased games will constantly be improved. we have several other innovations as well, yet to be revealed."


So if your game isn't high enough quality and you don't improve it it'll get removed (as if it's poisoning the store or something).. some open store huh.


And this whole "16-bit" stuff is just nostalgia exploitation.. Come up with a library of games first and we'll talk, otherwise I'm sure the hardware does nothing to distinguish itself (outside of obviously being poor, which I guess is a pro for some)


foxblock; Do you actually know anything about the hardware, or are you fine with the promise that it'll run SDL (with no indication of how fast it'll be, except "faster than DS"?)

 

[GiraffeeDreams]

Like I said before, enthusiastic, but I too feel this is unrealistic, the costs will go up or the system will be woefully underpowered, on top of the staff and parts costs, they will have to keep an app store up and running (that's the impression I get from the way the intend to prune and snip at abandoneware).


This is an investors nightmare.

 

[foxblock]

foxblock; Do you actually know anything about the hardware, or are you fine with the promise that it'll run SDL (with no indication of how fast it'll be, except "faster than DS"?)

No I know nothing, and apparently neither does he (reading the SDK thread on those boards).


Also I agree with most you said before, parts of that stuff sound totally ridiculous or plain irrational.


Honestly I can't take that comparison chart seriously, "no" active indie development on the DINGOO and CAANOO, but "yes" for a console which has not even been released or any pronounced supporter, come again please...


Still, I don't see a loss for me if I pledge to port my game, it would be a 5 minute job and another few people covered.


Also with the PR stunts Pelloni usually does (see Bob's game), this is guaranteed to get some media coverage and some of that may also notice my game or through that the Pandora, we will see...


Oh and for the record, I don't actually think Bob's game is any good, at least judging from the demo, but try it yourself (link in OP)

 

[Exophase]

Like I said before, enthusiastic, but I too feel this is unrealistic, the costs will go up or the system will be woefully underpowered

Probably both. With all of the hype of this being "16-bit" I actually wonder if it won't have a 16-bit microcontroller, like a PIC24. It seems kind of suspicious to me that he doesn't want to reveal specs...


I didn't think the Bob's Game demo was that great either, but I guess we'll see what the full thing can offer (if it ever really does come out)..

 

[DavidBowman]

I played his game on my DS. In some ways, I was impressed. In others, I didn't care for it.


For a one-man project, the game was certainly beautiful. I still found it lacking, however. I don't know why. Something ineffable.


It would be really cool for this to succeed, but I think we all know how likely it is for this hardware to be able to be produced for a measly $20.

 

[WizardStan]

It seems kind of suspicious to me that he doesn't want to reveal specs...

It seems less (or more?) suspicious when you take into account that he doesn't know what SoC he'll use either

 

[maiden]

its easy if you skip unnecessary parts like screen and battery


http://hackaday.com/2010/06/13/gaming-system-for-less-than-three-bucks/


http://hackaday.com/2010/10/27/smallest-gaming-console-ever-ever/


A cortex M3 with a DSP would be really cheap, and allow sound also.

 

[Exophase]

I was thinking Cortex-M3 too, but we're talking about something more powerful than DS; in order to even entertain that notion we'd have to be looking at a Cortex-M3 > 66MHz, at least (personally I think you'd need more). These low-end AVRs, PICs, or even Cortex-M0s won't cut it. I can't find any high-end Cortex-M3 for under $10 on Digikey, and that's just the SoC.


The thing with Cortex-M3 is that I haven't seen any that offer more than relatively slow (compared to their clock speed) 16-bit external interfaces. This would have to be shared between both RAM and display, and if you wanted to connect to a DSP. I wouldn't try going for a DSP for audio, just DMA to an on-chip DAC (you can get these with 2x 12bit DACs). It all ends up looking something GBA-like (fast internal RAM, no cache, slow external RAM), with the further understanding that the games would probably be on NAND (internal or via SD) and you'd therefore have to load assets from the slow RAM instead of the game directly.


While the CPU might be competitive with DS's you'd need most of that CPU power just to render the graphics, which I guess you'd ideally want to go straight to the screen instead of to slow memory (which would then have to be copied back out to the screen).. sounds like a mess. You'd really prefer something with a fast memory connection and a fast display controller built-in, which these cheap embedded Cortex-M microcontrollers just don't give you.


Anyway he says "cell phone hardware" and that it'll have at least 16MB of RAM so I presume it'll be ARM9 or MIPS. The bulk rates he's after will also likely never be available to him, unless he can conjure up millions of dollars to fulfill those orders.

It seems less (or more?) suspicious when you take into account that he doesn't know what SoC he'll use either

Well then, I guess we can all chalk this up to these people talking before thinking (nothing new with Bob I guess..) I like how he "ported" Bob's Game to nD when the platform doesn't exist. He has a "prototype" which is probably nothing more than some random SoC devkit he pulled from somewhere.


What threw me off is that the renders showed an actual PCB. I assumed this meant that they actually had a PCB design, which of course means they had a BOM, but it looks like they just made something random up.

 

[maiden]

I got one of these: (its a open source project) price: 358 人民币 = 55$


http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=9058404557 (use google translate)


Building my own GPS tracker/watch to have when i run marathon.


(have found some cheap gps modules for 6$ each (actually slightly less).


i am currently running uC on it, had FreeRTOS before. will probably move over to our own RTOS that we made with some classmates last semester. read some where that they had got linux running on it, but it was quite slow.


To the point: adding some controls and i have a lightweight gaming machine, not good, but cheap, with a touchscreen! i am 2 analogue numbs and a keyboard short of a mini pandora , i even got wireless network (net wifi, but still)

 

[Prometheus]

That he actually thinks $10 (or even $20) is possible (as is claimed on the Wiki) shows just how clueless he is.

I seem to remember thinking something along these lines with regard to the fuss about not being allowed to "just buy an SDK CD" so that Bob's Game could somehow magically become an official retailed title (when my understanding from some handheld developers in a similar situation, is that all that was needed would have been to find a licensed publisher)...