The nD

[thatgui]

I think im in the mood for beeing a troll today:


...

The PS1 was 33 MhZ. Look at FFVIII.


I rest my case- he can do something interesting for really, really cheap. I just don't see it selling massively.

What is your point ?


Why should that be comparable hardware -or software wise ?


FFVIII had at least two factors that helped here:


- a developemt history: FFVIII wasn't build up from the ground - surely there was some codebase and art repository to benefit from


- a motivated team, whichs motivation was strengthened and prolongend due to the fact that they we're payed for


Even if he manages to make a game which is comparable (at least in quality) to FFVIII, why on earth does he think a tv-spot will make this a system seller ? Because it's cheap ? I'd like to see that happen.


Edit: Sorry, did not recognize that the related post is already three weeks old

 

[EvilDragon]

Well the cheapest decent BT (no wifi) module we could source was $9.50 @ 3000 pcs.

Yes you may find other ones which seem cheaper but they are garbage.

Garbage in what respect? I'm looking at Atheros AR6102 modules, which are fairly common.


ie,


http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=4273833143


http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=8624614334


http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/111953633/WIFI_chip.html


Around $5-$9, with some looking somewhat cheaper.

Don't forget that these modules often don't have FCC / CE precertification. That's something we wanted for the iCP.


If it is not precertified, you have to do precertification AND final certification for your product, that easily adds up to about 15000 - 20000 USD (at least here in Germany, I haven't checked prices in other countries)


If large quantities are planned, this is no issue.


If a quantity of 1000 is planned though it would be another 10 - 20 USD per unit just to cover the certification posts.


And you should go for a BT module registered with the BT organization. Otherwise, you'd need to pay for that registration as well.


The same issue will probaly case mold. While it's cheap for high quantities, it adds to the price with lower quantities.

 

[craigix]

I have a suggestion for him, if he really does somehow build them for $10 I suggest he gives them away free on the condition a user buys X number of games in the first year.


That would surely give him an instant huge user base, that's probably the only way he will get one.

 

[Exophase]

Don't forget that these modules often don't have FCC / CE precertification. That's something we wanted for the iCP.


If it is not precertified, you have to do precertification AND final certification for your product, that easily adds up to about 15000 - 20000 USD (at least here in Germany, I haven't checked prices in other countries)


If large quantities are planned, this is no issue.


If a quantity of 1000 is planned though it would be another 10 - 20 USD per unit just to cover the certification posts.


And you should go for a BT module registered with the BT organization. Otherwise, you'd need to pay for that registration as well.

I'm told there are FCC/CE houses in China, not sure what the viability is for something like that but I imagine it'd at least be cheaper. I haven't heard anything about precertification and don't know if these modules have it.. $15-20k is certainly a lot of money, but I imagine long-term way more than 1000 is planned, and a big chunk will just have to be eaten for startup.


EDIT: Okay, I don't think this module actually has BT support, despite being listed under the Bluetooth section on their site. It might be better to just drop BT, depending on whether or not this module still makes good sense.

I have a suggestion for him, if he really does somehow build them for $10 I suggest he gives them away free on the condition a user buys X number of games in the first year.


That would surely give him an instant huge user base, that's probably the only way he will get one.

The problem with that is they need to actually have X games to sell ;p

 

[second exodous]

Ahh, this bums me out reading the comments here. I didn't think it was possible, but even if some company made a device like this for under 100 USD that was from the US/Europe I'd buy it. It seems everything is more difficult to do with these cheap handhelds when there is a language barrier like from a Latin based language to a non Latin based language.


I'll keep watching it to see if it materialises though, it would be cool.

 

[foxblock]

Video showing off the menu, running on actual hardware as it seems, but you can't really make anything out nor does the video supply any actual information:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/QyKgaeTNZOc?feature=oembed
from here: http://the-nd.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=191

 

[moz]

It appears to have that same diagonal tearing as the Wiz. Does that mean it has an OLED?

 

[Nintendo]

No, no way! LCD screens are able to have diagonal screen tearing as well.

 

[craigix]

I've read through the thread on that site and the guy running the show is deluded.


He clearly does not want to understand the huge amounts of money involved in large scale manufacturing and the eventual cost of his planned device.


Does he even understand that the case alone will cost him maybe $100,000?


Also, shipping the components of the device alone around with world will probably add up to almost $10, that's half his device planned cost.


None of what he is saying makes any sense.


You will never ever beat the prices of the Dingoo style consoles, they are as cheap as you will ever get, almost certainly all made from scratch in one


giant factory which does every single process.


He might as well just buy those and rebrand them as he will never ever beat the price.

 

[foxblock]

It appears to have that same diagonal tearing as the Wiz. Does that mean it has an OLED?

Maybe that is because it is a WIZ.. who knows?

 

[craigix]

If I was to put a price on making the console he is trying to make, based on my icp and pandora work, I'd say it would have to be at least $120 selling direct to the customer with no middle men to have any hope of breaking even.


I've been a bastard (probably) and posted on his board and ruined his dreams, but I'm actually just trying to save him from ruining his life chasing this impossible console.


-------


Post: #1This console is in dreamland. It will never happen.


Hello everyone, Craig here, Developer of the OpenPandora & iControlpad.


This console, the Nd, and it's developer, is in absolute Dreamland. It isn't going to happen, well, not at the ridiculous $20 price anyway.


Rather than go in to complex details, let me just show you a break down of a console based on the specs that the developer is suggesting:


Battery - at least $3.50


LCD - at least $6


SoC - at least $8


Any kind of wifi/bt - at least $9 (or $12+ for a programmable one)


NAND - at least $3


SD slot? USB slot? - at least $3


Other needed components - at least $8


Multi layer PCB - $8 (you might get away with $6)


PCB population - at least $5-$10 (depending on complexity)


Case/buttons/etc - at least $4


Assembly/testing - at least $2


Global shipping of all those parts per unit - at least $3 but could be as high as $10.


Case mould creation, at least $50,000, but more like $100,000.


Wow, it's already up to about $60+, getting one company to do all the above for you might get you $15 or so lower costs overall.


As you can see, in comparison the Dingoo is ASTONISHINGLY cheap (although it has no wifi) - I bet they only make $3-$5 per unit max.


So I hope this shines some light on how preposterous this whole project is, and if you still doubt it I can go far far further in detailing why it won't happen.


But for now I'll just leave it at this, I sure hope this isn't just deleted and ignored because I'm trying to save the people behind this from ruining their lives and financial situation chasing impossible dreams.

 

[craigix]

Well, I just got this from the 'developer':


Your forum account is currently banned. Ban Reason: trolling. several consoles already exist at this price point. you don't know how far along we are, you are coming in here and spewing false assumptions. you did not have the proper contacts and you don't know how chinese industry works.


Ban will be lifted: 2011-07-21, 02:15 PM


Sounds like he is about to be robbed blind by the Chinese.

 

[darfgarf]

you did not have the proper contacts and you don't know how chinese industry works.

this has officially made my day

 

[Exophase]

Yeah I'm not very impressed with his ban silencing tactics. Suffice it to say you aren't the first. I'm actually a little surprised it hasn't happened to me yet.

 

[craigix]

I'm starting to wonder if this could be an investor scam. That video he posted looks a lot like it's running on the Wiz.

 

[slaeshjag]

Well, who knows; he could get the parts for free if he has somebody near the component factories to scavange the reject bins :rolleyes:

 

[Exophase]

I'm starting to wonder if this could be an investor scam. That video he posted looks a lot like it's running on the Wiz.

Why, because of the diagonal tearing? Lots of displays would suffer from that in rotated mode.

 

[craigix]

I'm starting to wonder if this could be an investor scam. That video he posted looks a lot like it's running on the Wiz.

Why, because of the diagonal tearing? Lots of displays would suffer from that in rotated mode.

Is there any evidence it's really a devkit anywhere? It just reminds me of what the OLED screen looks like when filmed and combined with the diagonal tearing, the fact it would be easy enough to get his game running on that etc. the evidence is enough for me to suggest it.

 

[Exophase]

What evidence does there need to be? It's not hard to buy some eval board off of someone. It's probably easier to do that than to try gutting a Wiz. He said it was 400MHz ARM, why understate that?


The diagonal tearing has zero to do with OLED. 240x320 is going to be more common for cheap LCDs too because that's the more applicable form factor for cellphones. I don't see anything about the film quality that suggests OLED either.. All really jumping to a weird conclusion...

 

[craigix]

What evidence does there need to be? It's not hard to buy some eval board off of someone. It's probably easier to do that than to try gutting a Wiz. He said it was 400MHz ARM, why understate that?


The diagonal tearing has zero to do with OLED. 240x320 is going to be more common for cheap LCDs too because that's the more applicable form factor for cellphones. I don't see anything about the film quality that suggests OLED either.. All really jumping to a weird conclusion...

Well why hasn't he posted a picture of this dev board? I see several people tried to ask him to and he either deleted their posts or told them the answer was no.


Do you really think it would be easier to get that running on an eval board than on the Wiz? I doubt it. Or rather I'd not like to try to do it.


Still, the obvious question remains, why isn't he posting a picture of this devkit? Why purposely film in the dark?! The added coincidence of the diagonal tearing just sets off my bullshit radar.