The future of Pandora?

[nawoa]

First off, I can tell how this is going to read, but I'm not trolling, nor am I completely tech-ignorant. I'm a geek that builds computers for fun and loves gadgets.


When the Pandora was first announced, it was cutting-edge stuff. When it finally began shipping, we already had smartphones with faster processors and GPU subsystems, more RAM, and of course an exponentially larger developer community.


I'm hoping that now, since the kinks in the production chain have been worked out and you've found reliable sources for all your needs, the next iteration might go from conception to shipping in a tiny fraction of the time... Makes sense, right?


So is a next generation planned at some point, or has the somewhat lukewarm reception (still trying to sell the first 8k units) put a damper on things?


Personally, I'm willing to pay the ~$400, but not for a device that's already obsolete. I'm in no rush to buy another portable device since I've already got a modded PSP (homebrew makes a PSP worth owning), a DS, an Android handset, and will be in line to buy a 3DS when it's released. And from your point of view, I understand you need to at least try to break even on the first generation of Pandora.


So basically, I'd like to know if 1-3 years down the road we might see a new generation of Pandora, preferably one that dual-boots Android. Combined with a bluetooth headset, it could be a perfectly capable (if gigantic) phone. Then, with (official or unoffical) Market access, the problem of compatible software will no longer be an issue. For people who just want a tiny computer, the option to boot into Linux will also be there, but I think Android being available would make a new generation Pandora a massively more compelling purchase - even without 3G, Skype over wifi is still awesome. (3G would be awesome though btw...)


Pre-emptively: I do realize that MOAR JIGGAWATTS doesn't equal better, I realize battery life has to be a major concern, etc. When I say obsolete hardware, I mainly refer to the more tightly-integrated, smaller-node, lower-power, higher-efficiency, cooler-running processors. Snapdragon, Hummingbird, the dual-core ones from various manufacturers that are coming out soon, Tegra, etc. Similar or lower power consumption with more processing power is hard to disagree with.

 

[sebt3]

First off, I can tell how this is going to read, but I'm not trolling.

Indeed this read as a troll.

Personally, I'm willing to pay the ~$400, but not for a device that's already obsolete.

To be obsolete, there have to be a more powerfull equivalent device out there. Link please ?


And no, Android/IPhone phone are not equivalent at all. Missing features :


- Legally hackable


- Full desktop like operating system


- Good d-pad (I've played enough on a phone dpad to shoot out loud : they f***g sucks!)


- Dual analog joystick (required for any fps)


- 10 hours battery *while playing* (not idle)


- a huge applications library (point me any mobile OS that beat Debian on that...even winMo fall short)


- excelent keyboard (I own a pandora, and I've yet to find a current mobile device with a better keyboard, may be psion had one)


- and so on....


I for one dont want to see the pandora2 becoming a phone : it sucks when your phone automatically pause your game in a middle of a jump to allow you answering it.

 

[SNESFAN]

get the sony ericson zeus 1 (psphone) it's said be coming out march 2011 (expect buzz/info on it tomorrow the 9th)


http://www.engadget.com/2010/12/03/playstation-phone-zeus-z1-caught-on-video-again-this-time-you/


it's basically the pandora without the physical keyboard, with higher specs, actually is a phone, and it has android


nobody seems to be getting off their ass on the pandora android port so I've completely given up hope on ever seeing it.


I'm not giving up on something I've waited over 2 years for... but we'll see which one of these I will get more use out of and will suit my needs better. I can already tell you which one I think it will be... just sayin


thread on playstation phone





---------------------


EDIT: I don't particularly care for the person above my post but I just wanted to respond to it anyway cause it's just inaccurate.


-no need to hack when you can put whatever software you want on it, plus root access and source for kernel is always found for android phones, there isn't a phone to date that hasn't been broken into (minus bleeding edge)


-i've seen debian and ubuntu ran on android phones though vm and "remote desktop" remoted into it's self


-dpad looks fine on this phone


-I average 12/18 hours on a single charge with moderate/heavy use on 1500mah battery with wifi/3g enabled if I had 4000mah battery like the pandora I'm sure I could squeeze in a few more hours, and there are extended batteries availble in the 3500mah range I've seen.


-well seeing how android can run the market with all it's software, you can run debian and ubuntu on android via a vm... i think it's at least equal to what is on debian.


-swype keyboard is my new favorite keyboard, even though my phone has a physical keyboard I prefer sliding from key to key and gesture based typeing... YMMV


-android handles multitasking just fine, if in game and a call comes in, you can swype to ignore and back to game, or you can just take the call... "it just works"

 

[second exodous]

I don't think the Pandora is obsolete, I don't even think it will when something more powerful comes out. I think if it works for you then it is never obsolete. Most people that don't live in the third world think that when something a little bit better comes out that makes whatever they own 'obsolete'. It still works doesn't it? Why not keep using it?


Also, you need to understand that devices based on Ti's OMAP3 STILL COST THIS MUCH! Link to a cheap device based on the OMAP chip that the Pandora uses. Can't find one? Why do you think you can't find one? Hmm, I wonder if it is because that chip is not obsolete in any sense of the word you may use.


Honestly, just cancel, I'm sure your unit will be sold because there are people out there that realize it is not old tech and even if a huge company was making the Pandora it would cost about the same unless they were selling it at a loss. It is not obsolete, why do people keep saying it is?

 

[sebt3]

nobody seems to be getting off their ass on the pandora android port so I've completely given up hope on ever seeing it.

Your fault.

there isn't a phone to date that hasn't been broken into (minus bleeding edge)

That's my problem. With my job, this is far from what I can do...

-i've seen debian and ubuntu ran on android phones though vm and "remote desktop" remoted into it's self

I didn't knew this one. Thanks

-dpad looks fine on this phone


-I average 12/18 hours on a single charge with moderate/heavy use on 1500mah battery with wifi/3g enabled if I had 4000mah battery like the pandora I'm sure I could squeeze in a few more hours, and there are extended batteries availble in the 3500mah range I've seen.

I agree on the first and don't beleve the later.

 

[SNESFAN]

don't beleve the later.

thought you said you had me on ignore.... when you PM'd me with the QQ


anywhooo... this is the phone I use, and a 2800mah battery they have on sale


http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=841462


note in the screenies in the OP if you can't access them, that's "2d 12 hours since last unplugged"


i don't know what his usage is, but it sounds about right to me based off what I get with my 1500mah battery... believe it or not.. whatever

 

[EvilDragon]

thought you said you had me on ignore.... when you PM'd me with the QQ


anywhooo... this is the phone I use, and a 2800mah battery they have on sale


http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=841462


note in the screenies in the OP if you can't access them, that's "2d 12 hours since last unplugged"


i don't know what his usage is, but it sounds about right to me based off what I get with my 1500mah battery... believe it or not.. whatever

Yes, but that's only possible if you don't permanently use your phone.


My phone lasts three days, but as soon as I use it to play games, it only lasts 3 - 4 hours.


The backlight needs most of the power on a handheld - and that's off while you're not using the phone.


Next is the CPU and 3D processor. As long as they don't do much, they will also last much longer than when they run complicated games.

 

[SNESFAN]

Yes, but that's only possible if you don't permanently use your phone.


My phone lasts three days, but as soon as I use it to play games, it only lasts 3 - 4 hours.


The backlight needs most of the power on a handheld - and that's off while you're not using the phone.


Next is the CPU and 3D processor. As long as they don't do much, they will also last much longer than when they run complicated games.

I don't doubt that at all, I totally agree it's solely based off useage


however... I've sat down with my snes and psx emulator and put in a good couple hours playing both while waiting at the doctors office or while traveling, bored at inlaws etc and still made it though a complete day no sweat... when I say moderate use I don't mean 2 min spurts once or twice throughout the day with a phone call here and there. I know I've used it for more than 3-4 actual useage hours on a full charge on a 1500mah battery. And again the battery is twice the size in the pandora, if I were to buy a 4000mah battery for my phone I'm sure I'd see similar battery life.


As long as my device lasts all day and doesn't become a focus of my attention, that's all that truly matters to me. If I have to not do something I want to do because I'll be wondering if I'm going to make it through the day that's when we have a problem. 10 hours of actual usage is awesome... but I'm not forced to buy an extended battey now because I can make it though the day on a change, what would I need 2 days for if I'm never away from the charger for more than 24 hours?


camping?

 

[wardred]

Maybe combine this with the how to improve the Pandora thread?


I'd guess a "newer" Pandora really will pivot on how this one does. If the manufacturing delays don't get worked out first or second quarter of next year - I'm talking for batch 3+ here - I wouldn't expect to see a Pandora 2. Maybe just lots of iControlPads. This would make me sad, but I couldn't see the teem wanting another protracted period of 2+ year pre-orders, even if they wanted to produce a Pandora 2.


If they do get the kinks worked out, I'd expect at least 3 years on this revision. Recoup of investment and have *some* time for the developers / players to enjoy their device as it is. There are less than 900 or so in the wild now, a lot of things are on hold, or going slower, or even stopped entirely, because the audience is so small and / or some of the potential homebrew devs don't have devices yet.


If they could keep the board in the same / similar form factor, then I could see going to OMAP4+ and being able to handle 1080p in a future revision - would want some sort of standard hdmi/dvi out in this case - of the Pandora as the case and the nubs really seemed to be the major difficulties. The board did go through a few revisions, including a last minute rev for the wifi, but its form factor doesn't seem to have changed much in the last revision or two.


Edit: That thread's on the gp2x site. Whoops.

 

[Arkay Firestar]

First off, I can tell how this is going to read, but I'm not trolling, nor am I completely tech-ignorant. I'm a geek that builds computers for fun and loves gadgets.


When the Pandora was first announced, it was cutting-edge stuff. When it finally began shipping, we already had smartphones with faster processors and GPU subsystems, more RAM, and of course an exponentially larger developer community.


I'm hoping that now, since the kinks in the production chain have been worked out and you've found reliable sources for all your needs, the next iteration might go from conception to shipping in a tiny fraction of the time... Makes sense, right?


So is a next generation planned at some point, or has the somewhat lukewarm reception (still trying to sell the first 8k units) put a damper on things?


Personally, I'm willing to pay the ~$400, but not for a device that's already obsolete. I'm in no rush to buy another portable device since I've already got a modded PSP (homebrew makes a PSP worth owning), a DS, an Android handset, and will be in line to buy a 3DS when it's released. And from your point of view, I understand you need to at least try to break even on the first generation of Pandora.


So basically, I'd like to know if 1-3 years down the road we might see a new generation of Pandora, preferably one that dual-boots Android. Combined with a bluetooth headset, it could be a perfectly capable (if gigantic) phone. Then, with (official or unoffical) Market access, the problem of compatible software will no longer be an issue. For people who just want a tiny computer, the option to boot into Linux will also be there, but I think Android being available would make a new generation Pandora a massively more compelling purchase - even without 3G, Skype over wifi is still awesome. (3G would be awesome though btw...)


Pre-emptively: I do realize that MOAR JIGGAWATTS doesn't equal better, I realize battery life has to be a major concern, etc. When I say obsolete hardware, I mainly refer to the more tightly-integrated, smaller-node, lower-power, higher-efficiency, cooler-running processors. Snapdragon, Hummingbird, the dual-core ones from various manufacturers that are coming out soon, Tegra, etc. Similar or lower power consumption with more processing power is hard to disagree with.

With nothing but more delays in sight, the project is already just as likely to collapse on itself as it is to lead to the possibility of a second generation. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. There's still humorous uncertainty with regards to whether the board company is even doing their job.


Don't like what it is now? Move on to something else. If this somehow survives enough to give birth to a successive iteration, it will be 5+ years from now at this pace.

 

[Asiyura]

Reading that the Pandora is obsolete is slowly becoming boring…


Even more when we're still far from being able to use the full power of the DSP and PowerVR.


That said, Android is good webtablet/phone OS, but I prefer an OS that's not sponsored by Google.


A good old linux with the PND system is perfect from my point of view.


But when the first batch will be completed, there are probabilities that a developer will try to port it, don't be desperate.


If you think that Pandora is really obsolete, just buy another device that's more up-to-date.


And I don't think that saying that "the Pandora is obsolete" is a good way to motivate OPT to make a Pandora 2 in a few years.

 

[EvilDragon]

Well, if the iControlPad sells well, the money will surely be used also to make the Pandora production more reliable, not having to rely on preorders, improving stuff, maybe even producing at multiple board production companies.


And - of course - for a Pandora 2.


We'd love to make a Pandora 2 happen. It will probably take a while (more than 2 months, and we don't want to make Pandora 1 obsolete now), however we have been approved by TI for an OMAP4, so we could work on that.


It will take a long while though until the OMAP4 is really usable... it needs completely new hardware, drivers, etc.


Currently we should concentrate on Pandora 1, fix the flaws, make production reliable.


A new hardware doesn't make much sense if the current hardware can do so much more (DSP, NEON, etc.).


I hate if every few months systems change. The best games for ANY system (Amiga, C64, PSX, PS2, etc.) were the LATER games, when the devs learned to properly use te system.


Same for the gp2x: Nobody thought SNES would even be possible in a playable state... and then it happened after a few years. Also the homebrew games got better.


We don't want a new system every few months. It's way better to make use of the current one before releasing a new one.

 

[WizardStan]

When the Pandora was first announced, it was cutting-edge stuff. When it finally began shipping, we already had smartphones with faster processors and GPU subsystems, more RAM, and of course an exponentially larger developer community.

The PSP far outstrips the NDS in terms of computing power and graphics capabilities. By your argument, the PSP made the NDS obsolete months after it was released.


Which has sold better? Nevermind the fact that they were both outclassed by smartphones some time ago and are still selling fairly strong, 6 years after they were released.


Pandora isn't set to compete with the PSP or NDS, but if you're going to make blanket statements about how things become outdated, you should realize those statements by necessity include the consoles of the giants, both of which are still going strong. Just because something new comes out doesn't mean everything that came before it is automatically worthless.


Yes, it would have been nice if we had gotten our Pandoras 2 years ago: we'd have probably gotten a good 5 years of use out of it before it really became outdated. As it stands, I predict 3 years before we truly are pushing past the limits and need something new.

 

[pokitfoxx]

^ except in the case of the xbox 360.....i really wanted a NEW kind of xbox and they came out with the same thing for like the 10th time, ooooo how awesome, a bigger hard drive and wifi capabilities......!!!! all of which should have been in the original xbox 360

 

[Asiyura]

[…]
Currently we should concentrate on Pandora 1, fix the flaws, make production reliable.


A new hardware doesn't make much sense if the current hardware can do so much more (DSP, NEON, etc.).


I hate if every few months systems change. The best games for ANY system (Amiga, C64, PSX, PS2, etc.) were the LATER games, when the devs learned to properly use te system.


Same for the gp2x: Nobody thought SNES would even be possible in a playable state... and then it happened after a few years. Also the homebrew games got better.


We don't want a new system every few months. It's way better to make use of the current one before releasing a new one.

Thanks, that's what I meant, but my written (and spoken) english is a bit awkward.

 

[wardred]

Well, if the iControlPad sells well, the money will surely be used also to make the Pandora production more reliable, not having to rely on preorders, improving stuff, maybe even producing at multiple board production companies.


And - of course - for a Pandora 2.

Cool, and I really do hope things get cleaned up for round 3+. I'd like to see the Pandora 1 get the user base it deserves.


Edit: and a Pandora 2.


I even like the idea of the iControlPad as long as Google / Apple don't go out of their way to make controllers a pain to use.