Pandora In The Future

[Trip]

What I'd like to see as the next step in hardware would be a desktop edition of the Pandora.

It would have no screen, battery or keyboard, it would look like a small black box.

It's internals would be more or less identical to the mobile pandora. Except it would have hdmi or vga out (as well as tv out).

The desktop edition could be used as a pretty excellent media streamer as well as a rather lovely retro gaming system. Just add a wireless usb keyboard / mouse or maybe a bluetooth joystick or 2. Or Perhaps add a 1TB USB2 Hard drive and it's home server a go go.

etc.

Software developed for the mobile edition would be usable as long as it wasn't too reliant on the touch screen.

My guess is that if such a system was ready for retail his time next year then it could be sold for less than £100 and still turn in a healthy profit for OP.

BeagleBoard then

 

[lulzfish]

Well, what about a portable version of the BeagleBoard? :3

 

[WizardStan]

Well, what about a portable version of the BeagleBoard? :3

Pandora 2 == Beagleboard
Beagleboard 2 == Pandora
I'm not certain which idea hurts my head more.

 

[cb88]

Heh you either end up with the pandora or the Beagleboard X.x LOL

so like I said... mp3 player!

obviously craigix isn't just making the pandora they are making the icontrolpad too! so why not make a device that the pandora doesn't really replace (pandora as an mp3 player has been discussed it is a bit flawed ie the whole clamshell but fouls it up and how to control it closed?)

perhaps for the actual pandora 2 an ultra thin LCD could be on the back of the device screen (thin film LCD? like those flexible ones that are still experimental) that shows mp3 stats and add mp3 centric controls?

EDIT:apparently i can't spell LCD

 

[renegadechic]

I think these threads are good. This is a community and we all have free will and surely as a friendly community we should be able to bounce around ideas and chat and be friends without feeling the desperate need to be On Topic all the time. Maybe there is need for a more general off topic discussion forum within the Pandora area but things like this should definitely not be discouraged and turn into flame wars because that essentially goes against the grain of everything this project is about, i.e. the community.

Anyway, this wouldnt be a sequel to the Pandora but I am very interested in the shrinking down and fuel efficiencies of computers. The Pandora is a marvellous, fuel efficient little thing and obviously very capable. In fact it seems at least as capable as my old PC was from the start of the decade or at least the end of the last decade. In my eyes the problems that all computing based companies suffer from at the moment is that the consumers needs are far lower than the computers potential processing capacity. The majority of users only need to use the Office suite, e-mail, the internet and some multimedia capabilities. Of course the business world, especially in the entertainment and arts industries need faster hardware to run their music, video and graphics editing software, but then people were recording music and doing art on macs in the early 90s, let alone now.

So what I would like to see is a push towards simple, energy efficient and environmentally friendly computers which didnt necessarily have the fastest processing specs, but instead focused on the average user. I envisage virtually no moving parts, a lot of connectivity, a very small form factor, similar power management to what we will have in the Pandora, and possibly some kind of SSD storage like a normal PC. I think it would also be interesting to develop it as part of a kind of... household wireless media hub for music, films, etc and potentially form a network with similar small, discreet devices around the house to move away from the static independant computer in every room format which is more common now.

I know a lot of that is happening now anyway, especially the media hub stuff, but I definitely have not seen enough on energy efficiency from the computer industry yet which could be a cunning niche. I hate to think how many Pandoras I could have bought with the cost of running my PC over the last few years and I would love to see that cut down.

As for he Pandora 2, I just expect to see a natural increase in spec in a moores law kinda way and if theres a way to add things like GPS, mobile phone capabilities, webcam/digital camera and different kinds of touchscreen then the more the merrier. I dont see anything wrong with the current form factor but perhaps purely for the gaming side, it would be good to see L2 and R2 buttons if theres any way to include them.

 

[darkblu]

mmm, a visionary thread - how did i miss that? (a rhetoric question. i was wasting time in that thread)

frankly i have not thought of my dream handheld lately (the pandora has pretty much occupied that spot in my mind : ) but i know what features i'm missing currently: vga out.

also, a longer battery span at current performance levels is always desirable.

.. ok, on a second thought, i want:

* A9 MP - dual or quad. as was already noted, makes tons of sense for a portable when you want to linearly scale consumption & performance when you're on the go and when you're plugged in the mains.

* more fillrate. maciek's version is nice (quad dual-issue shader units), but i personally need more than that ;p now, i know that does not come cheaply battery-wise, so maybe a multi-gpu (eg. sli) vesion where a gpu core can be powered down would be needed.

* and the cherry on top: OpenCL in the next angstrom distro ; ))

 

[Phawx]

I would like a Beagleboard to be directly intergrated into newer TV sets. One that could decode 1080p perfectly streaming through a network.

It would also be nice to have a bluetooth mouse and keyboard as the remote control so you could do web surfing and the like.

 

[Loon]

BeagleBoard then

Yeah, good call, but with Wifi, Blue tooth, Twin SD and in a nice black box.

As for

a push towards simple, energy efficient and environmentally friendly computers

Couldn't agree more, reckon we'll be seeing a lot of that sort of thing in the next year or two.

Bring back the age of silent computing!

 

[Bronek]

* A9 MP - dual or quad. as was already noted, makes tons of sense for a portable when you want to linearly scale consumption & performance when you're on the go and when you're plugged in the mains.

* more fillrate. maciek's version is nice (quad dual-issue shader units), but i personally need more than that ;p now, i know that does not come cheaply battery-wise, so maybe a multi-gpu (eg. sli) vesion where a gpu core can be powered down would be needed.

* and the cherry on top: OpenCL in the next angstrom distro ; ))

* and definitely AMOLED screen. I have MP3 player with AMOLED and it's gorgeous. Contrast and colour better than plasma, it simply beats everything (no kidding).

* would be nice to have builtin 3G/GPRS and GPS. I plan to tether my mobile, but separate SIM card would make things simpler (although probably more expensive). There is no point in mobile computer if I cannot use it to access Internet while traveling

 

[zaoin]

For Pandora 2:

Analog nubs with 3mm minimum.
Vga out.
Simple connect usb 1.1 devices without adaptor. More normal sized usb conectors.
You can replace keys one by one.
Camera. For instant messaging. A simple one.
Accelerometers. With the stylus accelerometers thing somebody has explained.
Easy replaceble shell.
And all the stuff people are saying.

 

[jamaya15]

Well while we are dreaming..........

HDMI/DVI some kind of digital video out (Display port)
Full USB (3.0 if available)
3g
AMOLED display
More powerful hardware of course like a multicore processor and better gpu
Bigger screen
( I dont know how it would be possible but maybe minimizing the speaker and turning the entire top of the lid into a screen. Think PSP fat speakers which was like a little strip on top of the LCD screen)

 

[MDave]

Hmm ... Pandora in the future ... how about in 20 years time?

Same size and shape as current Pandora, but with an ultra thin lid.
50 grams weight.
1920 x 1080 OLED 5" widescreen display.
10 Ghz 8 core ARM processor.
2 TB Flash NAND
20 GB RAM.
PowerVR UltraGX HD 2Ghz 5 GB RAM.
100 hour battery life.
Same controls + multi-touch/resistive combo.
SuperTurboWiFiHD + WiFi + Goldtooth + Bluetooth.
Dual SDHCHD card slots.

 

[restless1]

You guys may joke around but in ten years those specs might seem like a little under powered

 

[kagato]

Further down the track there might be a market for putting the Pandora hardware (pretty much as-is) in different form factors, such as mobile phones. The core capabilities could remain the same, with a different selection of input controls for specific markets.

Maybe something like my entry in a Wacom design competition (sadly it did not win):



D-pad and (single) analog, 4 buttons & 2 triggers, touch screen; no keyboard (or maybe slide-out), but 3G phone capability added.


(On a related note, a gripe: all the phone companies tout the ability to play games on their phones, so why don't they take the very simple step of putting some controls where you can use them? You put the d-pad at one end, and put 2-4 buttons at the other end so you can hold the damn thing. How hard can it be?)

 

[lulzfish]

If you look at the trends with batteries, the Pandora's battery life in 20 years will be something like 12 hours [5 hours] as opposed to our current 10 hours [4 hours]

 

[Pseudonym]

15hr battery life.
multiple operating system boot(with GUI)
processer 50Ghz with 5gb ram
multi touch OLED screen webcam built in(5mp)
entire keyboard part a touch screen with emulated keyboard that works.
radio wave emitting stylus that can be used like the wiimote in games
1/2 inch thick(lid and base)
lcd on top to be music player(already suggested)

 

[chole]

You guys may joke around but in ten years those specs might seem like a little under powered

Keep in mind that embedded processors don't accelerate that quickly. Keep in mind that over half a decade ago, we had embedded devices running with 400MHz ARM processors. Zaurus, the closest primitive analogue I can think of to Pandora, was available at 400MHz in the SL-5600 as of late 2002. The XScale PXA270 could do 624MHz and was released nearly five years ago.

Obviously, this isn't the only element of performance. Older embedded devices did not have an accelerated graphics coprocessor, and they certainly had a substantial lack of memory compared to the Pandora (this is the most important bottleneck, to me at least). But we do have to keep in mind that increases in cpu performance are limited by physical space and process technology -- the former cannot be increased in an embedded device without increasing the size of the device, all other things equal, and the latter is not accelerating over time (disclaimer, I haven't actually looked up the dates of process shrinks, so I could be a bit off base here) at all. So you'll likely not see a sudden unexpected gigantic leap in cpu frequency, and the number of separate cores that can be fit into a tiny device is similarly relatively limited by the wait for those process shrinks.

And the power savings and heat reduction from each process shrink have been the poster child for the law of diminishing returns. So even though faster embedded processors get made, the cpu that get tossed into the next Pandora will not be nearly the fastest one available (as is the case now, but perhaps it would be an even lower percentage of the peak-performance available).

Of course, the current Pandora will be slightly faster than two of the three personal computers in my room, and one of them -- an old 450MHz K6-2 based contraption -- runs most of my apps, with memory being the only real limiting factor. So when Pandora Reopened (or perhaps "Horae"?) comes out in five years, I'd be cool with a modest increase in processor frequency or maybe a bump to two cores, so long as other bottlenecks are addressed.

Here's my mostly gimmicky want list (most of it -- possibly all -- have been already covered in this thread):

-----
Hardware:

* Three axis (or, as they like to call it in marketing, "six axis") accelerometer.
* ~6MP camera
* ~1GB RAM
* ~1GB internal flash (it'll be low for the time, but I think going for faster access times and throughput would be a worthy tradeoff)
* Hole for a proper lanyard
* Palm Pre-esque inductive charging (in addition to, not instead of, a standard DC port and USB charging capability)
* Backlit keys. Coolest thing about the iBook when I first saw it was when the lights turn out and you could see the keyboard. The light from the Pandora screen might render this unnecessary, though.
* Cooler button lettering. I've always been a fan of NESW (as opposed to the current YBXA).
* Small secondary LCD where the Pandora logo currently resides. Can be touch screen or not, but a button to wake it up would be nice. Shows logo by default but can be programmed with arbitrary images or small, widget-like apps (moon phase, analog clock, etc). Heck, add a left-right button or touch area to change active widgets!
* Perhaps recess the keyboard slightly so that an optional cover can be put on for those who want a cleaner look and seldom leave game mode.
* Keep the current aspect ratio. That way, 16:9 movies can be viewed with a convenient control row on the bottom/top, and 4:3 movies can be viewed with a convenient control column on the left/right.

If the Pandora is a successful venture (*pleasepleasewantwant*), I think there will be enough capital available to do the above, or much of it, in no larger a form factor than what we're currently using.

-----
Prepackaged Software:

* Etch-a-sketch ripoff. Use the analog nubs to emulate the knobs, and shake your Pandora to erase the image!
* network boot capability embedded in safety rom. That way, if you need to debrick, you don't even need the SD card.
* Support for multiple workspaces built-in (even if it's just one app per workspace). Pretty 3D switching effects. Pre looks like the right direction for this.
* Ability to use Pandora's touch screen as a trackpad for your personal computer. Since it's connected anyway, have the gaming controls registered as a PS2-style joypad and the keyboard keys registered as a USB keyboard.

-----
I reject suggestions for making expensive, high tech styli that emit radio waves or have Wii-esque cameras. It's a really cool idea, but people lose styli. A rudimentary tradeoff could be to have simple light sensors to detect objects in front of the screen, so position can be vaguely determined before physically making contact with the screen. This still sounds like a potential implementation nightmare, but it would mean that you could do stuff with both a stylus and a finger. Maybe.

Katago: Definitely better than what is currently offered with iPhone-style devices, but keep in mind that a good percentage of the population are lefties. Your design would have to be flippable (a la the Atari Lynx), or you'd need to have buttons analogous to the dpad directions (a la the Nintendo DS, where some games that use the touch screen allow you to use the four buttons to do the same things that the dpad does), if you wanted to respect those folk.



I only needed two cups of coffee to finish this. It must be one of those good days I hear about.

 

[lulzfish]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megahertz_myth

On desktop systems, processor clock speed has actually stayed almost the same from the Pentium 4 to the Core series. Things like 50 GHz processors are simply not practical because of clock stuff.

Maybe we'll have an asynchronous processor by then?

 

[Chip]

Hardware Ideas- instead of tablet, make the screen open 360 degrees the underside of the Pandora.
"Tablet" without patent infringement. The keyboard is on the top and the Touch screen is on the bottom. Also means the user can't hyper extend it.

That's patented too. Read this post, it explains why there is no convertable tablet Pandora.

 

[Username]

I always thought that patents have deadlines.