Some Clarifications On Pre-Orders

[G189]

[/quote]
I've become a bit disenchanted with the project too lately, until I was explaining the situation to my friend, and mentioned the specs of the Pandora to him. It hit me (again) just how awesome the Pandora is and will be. Now I'm giddy about it again. Haha :rolleyes:

BTW Craig&Co. have had shit luck from the very beginning, but they're still at it.
[/quote]

Well said.

 

[Monk]

But it could be explained why GBAX.com couldn't get them out of this CC hole even for a few hundred orders on the first batch. Heck their CC company must be used to big dollops of cash coming in for product launches etc (GP2x, F200, Wiz etc)

Is it really so hard to accept, that they have tried to do so and the bank simply said "NO"? Craig explained exactly that in the "Working Payment Options" thread.

Guys, no one is trying to deceive you. Do you honestly think they're choosing not to accept CC orders? Are you serious?

It's time to get past this speculation and pay via an alternate method. Or, don't.

+1
I think no one wants to read 29 pages of speculations again...

No they explained why a newly created company called OP couldnt take CC orders AT ALL!

GBAX is a company with a long history with its bank that is currently taking CC orders for products AND
pre orders for the WIZ another console which doesnt exist yet.

So if they can take pre0prders for the WIZ via CC why not for the pandora? THAT has not been mentioned as far as i am aware.


What is meant by the "no entry" slash across the red circle going the wrong way? are you implying something clever or just failing to reproduce the internationally recognised sign correctly?

Me, I'm still reading and musing. Somewhat glumly

 

[calzone]

Oh please let it be so, if you promise, we'll all chip in $5 and help pay for your andora1: just please please let it be so

Aww that's what's so nice about this 'community' thanks guys, and there I was thinking I was unloved just because I brought up questions to which there was no satisfactory answer.

Despite your kind offer, I think I'll refuse as surely it would cost folk like you in the US too much in fees, as I would insist you can ONLY send me your $5 by bank transfer

 

[YokoZar]

I was one of the original pre-orders. I received my refund, but I have not yet received an email about repayment options, which I'd like to do. Is this still possible?

 

[Ryzure]

I was one of the original pre-orders. I received my refund, but I have not yet received an email about repayment options, which I'd like to do. Is this still possible?

Yup! Pass your original order number, GXX#########, as a reference, and transfer your refunded amount, minus transfer fees, to OpenPandora's bank account (bank info here) I'm just personally waiting for the email to tell me how much I was refunded. I didn't get that email either

 

[TaG]

Oh please let it be so, if you promise, we'll all chip in $5 and help pay for your andora1: just please please let it be so
Aww that's what's so nice about this 'community' thanks guys, and there I was thinking I was unloved just because I brought up questions to which there was no satisfactory answer.

Despite your kind offer, I think I'll refuse as surely it would cost folk like you in the US too much in fees, as I would insist you can ONLY send me your $5 by bank transfer
:lol:

Hey, calzone, I don't think you were wrong to raise the points you did. It is important that such things get raised. It's just that some of these things snowball and carry on for days and people start fighting over them.

I also don't particularly want you or anyone else to disappear for months. I'd like for the 'community' to be a bit more pleasant.

 

[calzone]

Hey, calzone, I don't think you were wrong to raise the points you did. It is important that such things get raised. It's just that some of these things snowball and carry on for days and people start fighting over them.

I also don't particularly want you or anyone else to disappear for months. I'd like for the 'community' to be a bit more pleasant.

Cheers.

To be honest the post by ED on the blog today has helped. I do wish Craig and the others would take note though. If we got equally good posts on a WEEKLY basis then I'm sure all this crap and speculation would just not happen. Yes they are busy but if ED can post like this and spare us 15 minutes of his time then why the others. They should react QUICKER to head off such threads.

So much is made of the 'community' but recently it's just been us, with no real detailed input from the devs.

I actually feel a little better just hearing the words 'sorry' written down by ED and he writes with empathy towards his customers.

I still believe there was unbelievable naivety around the £800,000 worth of CC's payins and subsequent locking of accounts, which was at the root of the major delay. Live and learn I guess.

Communication has been a HUGE problem, sort that out and things may just calm down.

Nice one ED.

 

[joa]

The main blog should be dated.

We should have had updates like that one a lot more often. Not official wording everywhere.

Just a few words every couple of days with progress and how things are going, even if it was to do with shading in angstrom. There is always news, even if it's only small.

 

[Chip]

To be honest the post by ED on the blog today has helped. I do wish Craig and the others would take note though. If we got equally good posts on a WEEKLY basis then I'm sure all this crap and speculation would just not happen.
And this is where I get frustrated, because as informative as that blog post is, there's nothing there that we haven't said said before. We've been open about all of this stuff from the beginning. We've been telling you what's been going on as it has been happening, and yet there are still all these complaints about "communication".

There was a whole big hullabaloo about the "lack of communication" from the devs a while back. When I collected all the updates we'd been getting and arranged them chronologically, suddenly all the complaints went away. I still maintain the list, though I'm not sure how many people bother to check it any more.

I just find it amusing that once again, the thing you wanted most was something that you had all along.

 

[Monk]

I'd like for the 'community' to be a bit more pleasant.

+1

 

[stustaff]

To be honest the post by ED on the blog today has helped. I do wish Craig and the others would take note though. If we got equally good posts on a WEEKLY basis then I'm sure all this crap and speculation would just not happen.
And this is where I get frustrated, because as informative as that blog post is, there's nothing there that we haven't said said before. We've been open about all of this stuff from the beginning. We've been telling you what's been going on as it has been happening, and yet there are still all these complaints about "communication".

There was a whole big hullabaloo about the "lack of communication" from the devs a while back. When I collected all the updates we'd been getting and arranged them chronologically, suddenly all the complaints went away. I still maintain the list, though I'm not sure how many people bother to check it any more.

I just find it amusing that once again, the thing you wanted most was something that you had all along.


I under stand YOUR frustration Chip but unfortunately with communication its not about what you actually say but what message the receiver of the communication gets.

And in this case its been diluted IMO by a couple of things,
1, the info being given in a forum post rather than the official blog!
2, competing questions clarifications that then muddy the water in that original topic so the message gets lost/changed.

Craig should not be posting anything aimed at the Pandora buyers in these forums! they should be sent to us via Email or on the official blog, and ALSO posted in here so there can be discussion but the primary method should be Blog or Email! not a forum post in some cases in the middle of the a different topic.

 

[calzone]

I just find it amusing that once again, the thing you wanted most was something that you had all along.

Nope. It's also the manner in which it's posted, something by the signs of it ED is very good at. He empathised, apologised and then explained clearly in detail the reasons. Craig on the other hand did none of those things.

More ED posts please, I say.

I'm glad you are amused Chip, but perhaps you need to listen to what OP's customers are asking for, and that's MORE and DETAILED communication, and that's what BLOGS are for.

Run a poll, see whether they want weekly updates? see if they want stuff posted on blog or forums? Go on ask your customers what THEY want.

 

[Bosbeetle]

To be honest the post by ED on the blog today has helped. I do wish Craig and the others would take note though. If we got equally good posts on a WEEKLY basis then I'm sure all this crap and speculation would just not happen.
And this is where I get frustrated, because as informative as that blog post is, there's nothing there that we haven't said said before. We've been open about all of this stuff from the beginning. We've been telling you what's been going on as it has been happening, and yet there are still all these complaints about "communication".

There was a whole big hullabaloo about the "lack of communication" from the devs a while back. When I collected all the updates we'd been getting and arranged them chronologically, suddenly all the complaints went away. I still maintain the list, though I'm not sure how many people bother to check it any more.

I just find it amusing that once again, the thing you wanted most was something that you had all along.



I think what people want is that the pandora is being developed in the big brother house. This is a typical example of give a finger ... But please don't let these people get you down I think there is still a majority that is really excited and that are willing to take some bumps in the road.

 

[TaG]

Chip, when I read Ed's post it makes sense, and some things become apparent or even obvious but were not clear before.

I didn't realise ED's funds had been pooled with Craig's and therefore also frozen. People even said 'why can't we just order from ED as he hasn't had a problem - I don't recall this ever being pointed out by anyone.

I know that if they could not make anything devs would have nothing to develop software on. I didn't realise that there were 'insufficient' boards out there for software development. Because of not knowing that ED's funds had effectively been frozen, I didn't realise that there was nothing being made for devs.

I assumed you guys had missed deliveries due to lack of funds, but I don't recall anyone saying it clearly.

It has been said before that it comes across some times that OP don't want to publish bad news, that that may scare people away. I think most on these boards would rather know and understand than feel they have been 'misled' / 'misinformed' / 'kept in the dark', or whatever is the right phrase is for various individuals.

Your's and ED's posts have cleared the air a bit - so thanks to you both. Craig's posts were valid but I don't think they should have remained unaddressed for so long and allowed to cause so much bad feeling.

One final thing: I do sympathise with you personally as I know you often put information out there, based on what you know and what you are allowed to say, and no matter what you say some just do not believe it anyway.

So, everyone keep smiling!




edit:typos

 

[Monk]

And this is where I get frustrated, because as informative as that blog post is, there's nothing there that we haven't said said before.

...

I just find it amusing that once again, the thing you wanted most was something that you had all along.

I've rethought this post a couple of times, and I'll expand again on my thoughts if you like but really it boils down to this IMHO.

1. There were a few bits of info that seem new or to contradict what we were told at the time, but which fit better with events as they have unfolded than what we originally believed to be the case.* For example, ED says that the banking issue caused Pandora development delays whereas IIRC at the time we believed that the banking issues was NOT causing delays. He also mentioned that the LCDs originally reserved for OpenPandora did in fact get sold to someone else, as you guys didn't have the cash to pay for them. The way the information is laid out, in a story, that really helps. We live our lives by stories - we understand stories. They work well as a communication technique.

2. Despite the Germanic flavour to the post, Ed is clear and covers a lot of ground quickly without confusion. the forums suffer BADLY from two communication issues IMHO, the first being that people speculate, often negatively (we're human) about why they aren't holding a Pandora already. But the second is the "fanboi" problem. While fanbois feel a perfectly natural requirement to provide "balance" and to help out you and the rest of the OpenPandora team by providing answers, they not only raise the temperature but their responses are often inaccurate. They're not quotes, they are re-interpretations... and their interpretation of (say) your interpertation of (say) what CraigX has said is just that bit further removed from the "truth" and rather than clarify the issue SOMETIMES muddies it still further. Fanboi posts become embedded in the general collective memory as "what is happening" and then when it turns out to be incorrect everyone feels grumpy and ill feelings towards OpenPandora multiply. The Blog does not suffer from that problem - the data there is read-only, so it's clearer, concise, and yet aimed at current concerns (rather than being a full FAQ covering everything since March).

3. Some of the nuance in ED's post seem to be helpful - the "whys" of the events rather than just the events. Why mass production didn't happen (OpenPandora didn't ahve the money) for example.

I'm a little concerned that, actually, without the banking mess we might have all ended up with Mk2 boards and not benefitted from whatever benefits the Mk3 boards have. I'm pleased, however, that rather than JUST continue to hone the Pandora in the interim that the hardware spec has been upgraded (the higher RAM capacity) so in both respects it would appear that the banking cockups might actually be in the Pandora customers' best interests.

Except, of course, where it comes to payment (since CC is not an option). But we just might get a better bit of kit due to these delays - and better is, well, better!

What I hope ED's post does is improve the temperature of the forums, and help us all calm down a bit. It's been a rather stressful place of late, and anything from you or ED that can help that process is to be encouraged. I can't recommend highly enough that the "FAQ" thread be locked so that only Mods can unlock it to post, and that each update to the main post be accompanied by a copy of the update (only) at the end of the thread to highlight that there IS an update but also just exactly what was updated.

Ta.

 

[Chip]

Stustaff and Calzone: Again, I keep all the official updates in one convenient place. That post is linked in the Information Index, along with other useful links. All anybody has to do to keep in the loop is read the posts I link in that list. What difference does it make if it's a regularly (as in every couple days) updated forum post or a proper "blog"? It's still all the information you claim you want, arranged chronologically.

Any really important information (things a customer needs to act on) about the refunds and reordering has been sent via email. Any major development milestones get posted on the front page at openpandora.org and in the dev blog. Smaller official updates (along with the bigger stuff) get posted in Official Updates List. There's also the Unofficial Community Blog which collects even more updates, including software projects and info about similar devices. If that's still not enough, you could of course actually read all the new posts every day. I wouldn't recommend it though. It's depressing.

Like Tyler Durden said RE: Project Mayhem - You decide your own level of involvement.

Whether you only want the bare minimum, the really important stuff, pretty much everything worth knowing, or absolutely everything (worth knowing or not), the information is there, and it is presented as clearly as possible given our resources. ED's post obviously helped to clear things up for those of you who haven't really been paying attention, and that's great. But you can't possibly claim that we aren't telling you everything when everything is sitting right there, in various easy to digest formats, just waiting for you to read it.

 

[stustaff]

Stustaff and Calzone: Again, I keep all the official updates in one convenient place. That post is linked in the Information Index, along with other useful links. All anybody has to do to keep in the loop is read the posts I link in that list. What difference does it make if it's a regularly (as in every couple days) updated forum post or a proper "blog"? It's still all the information you claim you want, arranged chronologically.

Any really important information (things a customer needs to act on) about the refunds and reordering has been sent via email. Any major development milestones get posted on the front page at openpandora.org and in the dev blog. Smaller official updates (along with the bigger stuff) get posted in Official Updates List. There's also the Unofficial Community Blog which collects even more updates, including software projects and info about similar devices. If that's still not enough, you could of course actually read all the new posts every day. I wouldn't recommend it though. It's depressing.

Like Tyler Durden said RE: Project Mayhem - You decide your own level of involvement.

Whether you only want the bare minimum, the really important stuff, pretty much everything worth knowing, or absolutely everything (worth knowing or not), the information is there, and it is presented as clearly as possible given our resources. ED's post obviously helped to clear things up for those of you who haven't really been paying attention, and that's great. But you can't possibly claim that we aren't telling you everything when everything is sitting right there, in various easy to digest formats, just waiting for you to read it.



I havent received an email since the original re-order one telling me to please use BT or wait for further info on CC payments, as a customer the only way I found out about not beong able to use CC was on these forums in a post titled 'Tranzfers' that I thought was about stickers!!! No mention on the OP site or via Email of this. Not everyone uses these forums to see your updated list Chip.

Again Chip it doesnt matter what YOU think, the customer is always (ok not always but in terms of this I think they are) right and if the customers tell you they would like regular updates on the official blog rather than through poorly titled posts on a messageboard you/OP should listen to that, you dont have to but ignoring it when it would be a fairly simple task seems pointless.

Look at all the positive responses to EDs blog post, you should read them and see that THAT is what the community want its there in plain black and pale blue the Community want more updates like Ed's not random posts in here.

Did we know all that?? Until EDs posted the information about ALL of the money being frozen was not known was it? nor was the info about why that then delayed things... or maybe it was was it Chip?

 

[Monk]

A quck (and possibly irritating) post - it'd be lovely if we could all get along barb-free.

Except for anyone with a spouse, ancestor or decendant called "Barbara", I guess...

Not directed in any single direction.

 

[mali]

What really bothered me, was the CD suggestion and the long time, that thread was left to speculation without intervention. I can handle all of that stuff, because I'm one of those reading every piece of crap here. But when I get the feeling, that something hurts the project, I have to say so. I'm an enthusiast, but no fanboi. Everyone receives info in a different way, but ED has proven to be a calming factor, and that was exactly what we needed at this point.

 

[kin]

I almost read everything. But I really don't understand why people get angry because of the banking problem. Well it's not the dev's fault?

I have the impression that most people argue about the same probs all the time, making multiple threads about money which makes me wonder if they've took the effort to read and look for info or not.

I can't see where the communication of the devteam had failed.