Some Clarifications On Pre-Orders

[WizardStan]

A number people here, have today, reiterated that they feel ED's BLOG post was brilliant and timely, and have asked that this be done on a more frequent basis and in THE BLOG as well as drip feeds in the forum.

The problem is that ED's post was brilliant and timely because it brought together everything that had happened over the last few months. You can't have a 3 month log of what's happened every week. If you look here as Chip keeps suggesting, you'd see that most of what ED posted had already been said. A few things are new; I'm not certain my feelings on that yet. I can kind of see how some of it may have been omitted at the time, the fact that all the money had been pooled to a single account for example. Just playing devil's advocate, but they may simply have not considered that we didn't know, or that we would care, until recently when people started asking about it.
I'm not saying that such omissions should be justified, just that they easily can be, and you should consider other possibilities before jumping on the conspiracy bandwagon.

 

[tds48]

openpandora ...What have you done to me, my life is in shambles.

I went to the bank it took a whole 20 seconds before I got attended to, and another 30 seconds to do the transfer. It was horrible, the teller was so friendly and made it impossibly easy!! I had no email from openpandora, accept the three (over the last two months) laying out all the details...

Ohhh I think Im going to leave ........ okay I'm back

Yes, sarcasm is the lowest form of wit - no I'm not a fanboy but Christ grow up (you know how you are)

No one is loosing out financially (if you reorder), yes there have been a few fairly big bumps in the road, and yes lessons learnt, but by the way people are yelling, its like Craig is lobotomizing them through naval surgery!!

Could the devs have done things a bit better - yes - BUT never mock or criticize anyone, until you have walked in their shoes. Kudos for what they have achieved in terrible circumstances

Chip - You are doing a brave and fantastic job in impossible circumstance, ignore the babel from the children.

And yes, I am still dubious about the dates (as a project manager I would have built in a lot more fat that what I feel the devs have done), but since my life does not depend on it, who cares if we are still a few months off

I love everyone fan boys and anti-fan boys alike

peace out

 

[stan999]

I'm sure that with all this excellent communication you're banging on about, it's just a matter of time before they get back to me, yes?
Yes.


I've noticed that yes, sometimes customers can be more irate at times than others. We've managed to solve this problem by using a Behavioral Response Indice or behaviour forecasting. It seems that this behaviour pattern followss a trend and some companies are now plotting this trend and creating a forecastable index. We've had success using Mightyz com as they have been pretty accurate. We just add more customer service people on heavier negative days and bring more emphasis to customer service on these days and on the more positive days, we add less staff to the customer service department, because we know that the day will have fewer irate customers. Hope this helps you out. Have a great week!

 

[Monk]

I've noticed that yes, sometimes customers can be more irate at times than others. We've managed to solve this problem by using a Behavioral Response Indice or behaviour forecasting. It seems that this behaviour pattern followss a trend and some companies are now plotting this trend and creating a forecastable index. We've had success using Mightyz com as they have been pretty accurate. We just add more customer service people on heavier negative days and bring more emphasis to customer service on these days and on the more positive days, we add less staff to the customer service department, because we know that the day will have fewer irate customers.

An intruiging notion, and it sounds great for the customers (although perhaps managing things to avoid "heavy negative days" altogether would be even better?). However, I must wonder how the "support staff" feel about it. I'd imagine uncertain work to be stressful?

 

[dinglebery]

I've noticed that yes, sometimes customers can be more irate at times than others. We've managed to solve this problem by using a Behavioral Response Indice or behaviour forecasting. It seems that this behaviour pattern followss a trend and some companies are now plotting this trend and creating a forecastable index. We've had success using Mightyz com as they have been pretty accurate. We just add more customer service people on heavier negative days and bring more emphasis to customer service on these days and on the more positive days, we add less staff to the customer service department, because we know that the day will have fewer irate customers.

An intruiging notion, and it sounds great for the customers (although perhaps managing things to avoid "heavy negative days" altogether would be even better?). However, I must wonder how the "support staff" feel about it. I'd imagine uncertain work to be stressful?



one of my recent jobs was in the IT department for a company that fields all the federal dental claims. they did the exact same thing with thier phone reps on heavy days they would bring in temps to essentially read pc prompts to field what rep needed to take what calls.. i would have hated that job i dont see how anyone could do it 99% of everyone calling was some pissed off im better than you doctor waiting to know why uncle sam said nope we wont pay for that for some patient .. and these untrained people had to be very careful what they said so as not to influence anything legal .. not to mention they got paid shit ... shudder that had to suck hard ..


far as the rest of the topic .. shrug im waiting to see the finished product and at that point if OP can give me a firm drop date ill put my check in the mail. if not ill wait till next batch. there are folks a bit overboard on both fronts here but im in the middle and try not to let it bother me but you people with your "you didnt loose money" bit annoy the piss out of me . you obviously dont understand how visa works. yes i understand about currency fluctuations ect ect but visa just plain dosnt care thats why i pay me fees. and back when i could have gotten a full refund we were asked politely not to because it "would make the banks feel what they did was right" (from the last messed up bank post from Craigx) youve stoped asking me to buy a product and asked me to gamble on one .. fine i can live with that but i will need more concrete "heres the finished P manufactureing takes 3 weeks we will have all the units shiped by may30" before ide send cash theres no way im seeing back if this goes tits up. thats part of the problem with the banks ide wager too OP is not a huge buisness if visa did 2000 chargebacks whos paying the extra bill surely not OP's bank they never fuck up (aimed at banking in general not at OP or their bank) they would come after someone in OP .. and that would get ugly ..

 

[Monk]

Yeah, I must admit that I'm a bit nervous about the whole "give us your cash now and we'll deliver a Pandora sometime in the future" aspect. I plan on wording this carefully to try and avoid treadintg on any extended toes, but it doesn't sit well with me that I'd effectively be giving an unsecured interest-free loan to OpenPandora for an unspecified period. When we could pay by credit card and the product seemed a couple of months away was one thing - we're now a month and a half later than that but still with only "guestimates" as to when the product might ship.

A lot of the blame for "guestimates" may be because we, the consumers, have not flocked to provide OpenPandora with the cash that they really need to do this thing right. I believe I re-read an old post of ED's yesterday where he actually said that manufacturing (not hardware, but manufacturing) was to be paid for by pre-order money, so that info - however clouded by other statements - seems to have been available for some time. But the lack of any really strong guarantee of safety has me nervous - if enough customers decide NOT to put their funds forward, could it skupper the whole project? Or make each unit cost considerably more to produce OP's projections due to the smaller run sizes?

I don't know (obviously) but I really REALLY would like to be happy to put my money forward. I want a Pandora, and the price seems triffic - but (espceially since the "dodgy CD offer") I'm a bit nervous that perhaps the Pandora is just TOO good, or that a lack of consumer confidence could provide one of those self-fullfilling prophecies and bring Craig and co crashing to the ground. I'd also really like to see the "community" behaving a bit more community-minded and "all for one" rather than tearing each other to shreds (this seems to have vastly improved today ).

I HOPE that I can convince myself (and more importantly, my wife - who is buying the thing as a gift for me) to prepay, but I fear it'll take more concrete seeming information than is even possible at this stage. I look forward to seeing video of a "final prototype" build!



Never say dye!

 

[Eniko]

While I'm glad that the air is cleared and we're all getting along now (haha, yeah right >_>) I would like to point out that calling people who defend the project fanboy/fanboi is an incredibly insulting ad hominem and really not conducive to a more pleasant community.

And considering the word has cropped up even after things are supposedly okay it seems like some people are starting to get the idea that using this term is okay. It's not, it's incredibly divisive, and instantly splits up the community in two camps; the fanboys who blindly support the project no matter what and the rational free thinkers. Convenient ad hominem though, I suppose, if you're on the other side, but really rather insulting to those who have done nothing more than not share your viewpoint.

Just sayin'.

 

[mali]

Yeah, it would have been nice, if that CD tread hadn't happened in the first place. I'm definitely back on board and will try to keep up my community spirit to get this thing done. My money is available to the devs and I wish them more luck now. ED convinced me after all.

 

[Monk]

While I'm glad that the air is cleared and we're all getting along now (haha, yeah right >_>) I would like to point out that calling people who defend the project fanboy/fanboi is an incredibly insulting ad hominem and really not conducive to a more pleasant community.

Just sayin'.

hmmm, I'm not sure that "fanboy" or "fanboi" (not being aware of the roots of said "words", which could I admit be more contensious than I am aware) is necessarily THAT insulting... or worse than any label that might apply to "skeptics" or fence-sitters (I am a fence-sitter and let me tell you, it doesn't feel at all safe - falling down either side worries me but not as much as falling down astride the fence - ouch!)

People tend to abhor labels when they are applied to themselves, but we also need them - because it's how our minds work. We can use labels to refer to groups of people where otherwise we would be required to name them all - so labels are convenient because they simply make conversation practical, both in this specific instance but also much more generally.

Can you think, offhand, of a descriptive term which would apply equally well (and be immediately understood) without sounding prejudicial?

 

[TaG]

Can you think, offhand, of a descriptive term which would apply equally well (and be immediately understood) without sounding prejudicial?

Not without somebody somewhere taking offence. Pro-OP is my best shot.

 

[Monk]

Can you think, offhand, of a descriptive term which would apply equally well (and be immediately understood) without sounding prejudicial?

Not without somebody somewhere taking offence. Pro-OP is my best shot.

Ooooh, never - I've never had an op that didn't scare the living daylights out of me!

/Monk is afraid of hospitals

Also the converse would be a problem, as I hope that even the most negative here wouldn't actually be Anti-OP (well, OK - maybe one or two have seemed that extreme, but not the majority of nay-sayers).

I think - I hope - we're all at least marginally pro-OP in as much as who of us here isn't pro having a Pandora? With THAT spec at THAT price? It's a no brainer, to me at least - I've mulled over netbooks here and there and they just lack so much compared to the Pandora - from the convenience of size to the lack of gaming controls and (I hope!) build quality/reliablity for the controls that ARE there. In many ways the Pandora is a "dream machine", so I have trouble thinking of OP customers as being anti the company they're buying from. Unsure, certainly. dubious - indubitably! But there would be no valid point in hanging around the forums unless one at least WANTED to be positive about OP, and WANTED - at minimum! - to believe they will build and ship the greatest little handheld device since the potato peeler!

 

[Eniko]

hmmm, I'm not sure that "fanboy" or "fanboi" (not being aware of the roots of said "words", which could I admit be more contensious than I am aware) is necessarily THAT insulting... or worse than any label that might apply to "skeptics" or fence-sitters
I don't know. What I've seen from the term online it's a lot worse than skeptics. Skeptics are called so because they are skeptical, while fanboi I usually see used to discredit anyone who disagree with others in favour of a project, usually to conjure up the image of someone who is so enthralled with the project that those in charge can do no evil, and who would never admit to any flaws, in order to completely discredit any point they might make. Basically people who can't think for themselves, aren't rational, etcetera. Internet wise it's pretty much only used in a derogatory fashion, never neutral.

I submit for your approval: "the faithful".

 

[dinglebery]

Ooooh, never - I've never had an op that didn't scare the living daylights out of me!

/Monk is afraid of hospitals

Also the converse would be a problem, as I hope that even the most negative here wouldn't actually be Anti-OP (well, OK - maybe one or two have seemed that extreme, but not the majority of nay-sayers).

I think - I hope - we're all at least marginally pro-OP in as much as who of us here isn't pro having a Pandora? With THAT spec at THAT price? It's a no brainer, to me at least - I've mulled over netbooks here and there and they just lack so much compared to the Pandora - from the convenience of size to the lack of gaming controls and (I hope!) build quality/reliablity for the controls that ARE there. In many ways the Pandora is a "dream machine", so I have trouble thinking of OP customers as being anti the company they're buying from. Unsure, certainly. dubious - indubitably! But there would be no valid point in hanging around the forums unless one at least WANTED to be positive about OP, and WANTED - at minimum! - to believe they will build and ship the greatest little handheld device since the potato peeler!




members in good standing of the evangelical Church of the cult of pro Pandorians

and Monk your starting to sound like that oxyclean guy :> all you need now is the headset

 

[Monk]

I'm afraid "oxyclean guy" means nothing to me, but "the faithful" has a nice ring to it

I HOPE we won't actually have much requirement for such labels, but if I do find a need I shall TRY to remember to use that one unless I see objections.

 

[dinglebery]

I'm afraid "oxyclean guy" means nothing to me, but "the faithful" has a nice ring to it

I HOPE we won't actually have much requirement for such labels, but if I do find a need I shall TRY to remember to use that one unless I see objections.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwtL4MQoKRw

this is old but in the USA hes pretty famous for being a seriously annoying hawker .. (but i wasnt insinuating that just that you were sounding like a infomercial)

 

[TaG]

hmmm, I'm not sure that "fanboy" or "fanboi" (not being aware of the roots of said "words", which could I admit be more contensious than I am aware) is necessarily THAT insulting... or worse than any label that might apply to "skeptics" or fence-sitters
I don't know. What I've seen from the term online it's a lot worse than skeptics. Skeptics are called so because they are skeptical, while fanboi I usually see used to discredit anyone who disagree with others in favour of a project, usually to conjure up the image of someone who is so enthralled with the project that those in charge can do no evil, and who would never admit to any flaws, in order to completely discredit any point they might make. Basically people who can't think for themselves, aren't rational, etcetera. Internet wise it's pretty much only used in a derogatory fashion, never neutral.

I submit for your approval: "the faithful".
We're into the territory where a pessimist calls themselves a realist and an optimist calls them a manic depressive.

Those that are 'excited' and 'faithful' may seem 'mad' or 'fanboy' to those that are 'skeptical'. And the problem here is that money is on the line, which makes people emotive. And we're all so emotive because we all want a Pandora in our hands. Hopefully we can start to put this behind us and not worry about labels. (Please?)

 

[Monk]

I'm afraid "oxyclean guy" means nothing to me, but "the faithful" has a nice ring to it

I HOPE we won't actually have much requirement for such labels, but if I do find a need I shall TRY to remember to use that one unless I see objections.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwtL4MQoKRw

this is old but in the USA hes pretty famous for being a seriously annoying hawker .. (but i wasnt insinuating that just that you were sounding like a infomercial)


LOL! Now I see where you're coming from - no problem. And I guess I was coming across a bit that way - it's just, well, it's got TWO (count 'em TWO) SD card slots and USB 2 HOST in one convenient package! but wait, that's not all - it ALSO has 256MB of NAND built right into the box! Take it round to your grandmother's and she'll be thrilled to note it has video out so that she can see your family photos on her large screen TV...

Ahem. OK, I'm not flame-proof but I also have a sense of humour - I don't see a little gentle ribbing as being a bad thing, necessarily. What counts, to me, is getting a Pandora in my hands! Not for five hundred pounds, nosireee - I'm not even asking for four hundred pounds! What's that madam? Put your money away now, it's no good here - Not even threee hundred pounds for this modern marvel. Did I tell you it can also emulate a BBC Micro computer?


:lol:

It's a lot more fun to have a laugh and some updates than to scowl and frown - at least, I find it so

Ta

 

[Gren]

Well, I was looking forward to a Pand - especially so for my month long trip to NZ mid-Feb - but the info revealed recently has been depressing to me personally

I'm not about to pay cash for a Pandy over the 'net, regardless of how much I "trust" the sellers, and I won't be around now for batch 1 deliveries anyway (I'm assuming delivery between mid-Feb and mid-March).

So, with a forced hand, I've just gotten myself a CycloDS evolution to have a play with.....

Will keep an eye on things when I get back, but I'm kinda disappointed that I won't get a batch 1 unit after waiting patiently for 6 months or so since registering an interest, then pre-ordering.

Oh well. Cya in a couple of months........it was fun while it lasted

 

[Monk]

Sounds like a shame - but take heart... how long are you away for? There seems to be a fair chance that they won't be shipping until mid-March or later (after all, sometimes things DO go wrong!)

 

[Gren]

I'll be back mid-March - so I'll re-appraise the situation then.
If pandys are up for sale via CC, and I've kept my place in line, then I'll order.

But that doesn't seem likely based on what I've been reading..........

Never mind - at least I've not lost my job (yet).