SoC: Back and forth!

[Ziz]

I think the best soc for the job should be chosen.

We should not choose the soc based on stuff like " I don't like x86 or I don't like snapdragon.

Spoiler

 

[Natsu]

I think the best soc for the job should be chosen.


We should not choose the soc based on stuff like " I don't like x86 or I don't like snapdragon.

Spoiler

O rly?

Spoiler

 

[God Ginrai]

I think the best soc for the job should be chosen.

We should not choose the soc based on stuff like " I don't like x86 or I don't like snapdragon.

Spoiler

Spoiler

O rly?

Spoiler

 

[Null]

I think the best soc for the job should be chosen.


We should not choose the soc based on stuff like " I don't like x86 or I don't like snapdragon.

Spoiler

Spoiler

O rly?

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[fusion_power]

So throwing a dice could be the best solution h34r:  Then nobody can say that it was a bad decision because this or that was not considered

Sshhh! Don't say such dangerous things or people may really DO this at the end! h34r:

Seriously, is there any X86 Mobile chipset even available in small quantities? I can't imagine that Intel does buisiness under one million units at all...

 

[Grench]

I'm still a bit scared by the power consumption of the Intel... according to specs, it would be up to 6A@1V - which means means 6W (only for the core).

Add display, etc. around it, and it's quite a bit of power.

I looked around a bit and couldn't find any reference to 6W or 6A@1V on the z3770. I found reference to SDP 2W and max TDP 4W. There are other processors in the Bay Trail family that have much higher power needs - is there any chance you were looking at another SoC?

 Data sheet Intel® AtomTM Processor Z36xxx and Z37xxx Series page 261 Table 118. Bay Trail-T SoC Power Rail DC Specs and Max Current:

VCC 6.5 A, VNN 5 A

And table 119 rates these voltages up to ca. 1 V.

Well, this is certainly the absolute maximum to design for (width of copper wire traces and DC/DC converters) and in practice it will be much lower. And it appears that it is limited by throttling the CPU if it becomes too hot.

Anyways it is really difficult to get a fair comparison.

Most likely other factors will outweight the pure peak performance or other features. The decision will certainly be based on more than 10 factors - and my impression is that every option has its pros and cons.

So throwing a dice could be the best solution h34r:  Then nobody can say that it was a bad decision because this or that was not considered

So those 6w specs are for designing a system that would cover all SoCs that Intel currently or may ever in the future release as part of the z36xxx or z37xxx families. For umbrella specs like that I would expect them to give themselves some wiggle room in case they want to release a higher clocked version of that chip 6 months to a year later. It doesn't necesarily apply to a single SoC in the line? It wouldn't hurt to design the traces with that in mind though.

It looks like there is -some- variation in the SDP numbers through the line that the z3770 resides in. Listed values for this particular set of SoCs runs from 2W to 2.2W.

http://ark.intel.com/compare/78415,76760,78416,76759,70105,70100,70101,75203,70097,70098,70814

It would be interesting to get a z3770 on a dev board and actually measure it. How much do those cost? It might be cheaper/faster just to buy a tablet with the SoC in it and rip it appart. http://shopping.hp.com/en_US/home-office/-/products/Tablets/Omni/F4C56UA;pgid=NwpQvldLNmxSRpYUCYDLaSQl0000fBhys049?HP-Omni10&&rwCategory=-&rwCatalog=-

 

[Grench]

So throwing a dice could be the best solution h34r:  Then nobody can say that it was a bad decision because this or that was not considered

 Sshhh! Don't say such dangerous things or people may really DO this at the end! h34r:

Seriously, is there any X86 Mobile chipset even available in small quantities? I can't imagine that Intel does buisiness under one million units at all...

Yes. They use resellers. -You- could order one today and it would be in your hands in the time it takes to ship it to you. They're purchased just like any other hardware component, plug or switch.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Intel/FH8065301455604S-R1M3/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsOUZO1TdTlbCfCOPX0baJLaCrP2XKjIVE%3d

If you want to buy 1000s, then you're in tray quantities and should get a nice price break.

 

[rohezal]

When I visited Intel in Braunschweig (they closed this year ), they told me they are very very careful with specs. They test everything and give worst case scenario data, like maximum temperatures the chip capable to operate. They had some rubber on top of it and tested all pins and instructions, (just 2 pins, all pins) etc for hours and days. I think the 6 Watt are the unrealistic worst case the ship can handle.

 

[Granitehead]

So throwing a dice could be the best solution h34r:  Then nobody can say that it was a bad decision because this or that was not considered

 Sshhh! Don't say such dangerous things or people may really DO this at the end! h34r:

Seriously, is there any X86 Mobile chipset even available in small quantities? I can't imagine that Intel does buisiness under one million units at all...

Yes. They use resellers. -You- could order one today and it would be in your hands in the time it takes to ship it to you. They're purchased just like any other hardware component, plug or switch.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Intel/FH8065301455604S-R1M3/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsOUZO1TdTlbCfCOPX0baJLaCrP2XKjIVE%3d

If you want to buy 1000s, then you're in tray quantities and should get a nice price break.

And the nice thing about this is that it has been said about two or three times in this thread.

 

[Thorgan]

All of your claims appear to be emotional rather than factual. Can we look at the facts and see what falls out?

The z3770 isn't your grandfather's X86.

Thanks for your answers.


Now please relax and look at these facts :


The z3770, which is an impressive chip, has a 22nm lithography and 2W SDP (which value doesn't really make sense). 4W of "real" TDP isn't unlikely as for most higher end SoCs. That's huge compared to the current SoC and OMAP 5 is 2W max. I'm concerned by this, and you should too. 


Also, I maintain that it is a trimmed down desktop cpu. Why use a bloated instruction set for embedded ? Compatibility with what ? Also, First Atoms design was cleaner to my taste (no out of order, 32bits only etc...)


There are 518 games at the moment on the Steam Linux Store. You are right when you said it would give us access to them. (I meant Windows Games in my post.) You might want to check the requirements of most linux games as we will have to drive a full hd display. If half of them are playable, well great... I'm sure the game studios will gladly adapt the screen layout for us (we are talking about desktop software). => We will need a magnifying glass !


If you are working from the sources... it's another story, you can adapt everything.


We will not have Windows on the pyra natively (unless proven wrong). I don't consider Wine as a viable alternative because I actually used it, and it's a nightmare ! You are right, that is rather emotional. Also desktop apps on five inch... say hello to the hdmi port.


Whats left ? What's so great ?


FOSS ? Great, most users will care.


MOAR POWER ? Well, your next phone will be more powerful than the pyra, it's a fact.... 


Prestige ? Can't argue with that, but it won't get you laid.


Hell, I just want a better pandora, I'm not against x86, I'm just sceptical.

 

[Ziz]

Seriously, is there any X86 Mobile chipset even available in small quantities? I can't imagine that Intel does buisiness under one million units at all...

Please: Stop guessing or "imagining" and start reading. Wejp said something about this, too.

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

So where will all forum member can meet so we can play this dice game?

 

[SNESFAN]

ok, so I didn't want x86, but after seeing the actual gaming performance on that venue 8 with that bay trail x86, I really want it now. That or I want the venue 8, I haven't decided

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/embed/jjPnC8qPAt8?feature=oembed

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

The title of this topic is almost PERFECT:  "SoC:  Back and Forth".  The only thing I would add is "SoC:  Back and Forth for Another Two MonthsTM"

 

[Askarus]

The title of this topic is almost PERFECT:  "SoC:  Back and Forth".  The only thing I would add is "SoC:  Back and Forth for Another Two MonthsTM"

I thought exact the same .

 

[TrashyMG]

Ew windows.

 

[Askarus]

ok, so I didn't want x86, but after seeing the actual gaming performance on that venue 8 with that bay trail x86, I really want it now. That or I want the venue 8, I haven't decided

Counter Video.

Snapdragon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbxv9RT80HM

 

[SNESFAN]

that looks horrible I'm sorry

 

[ghostpatch]

ok, so I didn't want x86, but after seeing the actual gaming performance on that venue 8, I really want it now. That or I want the venue 8, I haven't decided

thanks, great tip! You can play Borderlands 2! nice ; D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCxY73hkoqg

So, who said that you can't paly x86 games anyway, because they are soooo demanding?

 

[TrashyMG]

ok, so I didn't want x86, but after seeing the actual gaming performance on that venue 8, I really want it now. That or I want the venue 8, I haven't decided

thanks, great tip! You can play Borderlands 2! nice ; D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCxY73hkoqg

So, who said that you can't paly x86 games anyway, because they are soooo damanding?

Show me it running that well in Linux with wine..