So How Long Are We Going To Have To Wait For A Fullspeed Nds Emu?

[Exophase]

the emulation will not be at full-speed - where the native device will be, of course.

You really annoy me. I feel like doing one just to prove you wrong.

 

[sam fisher]

the emulation will not be at full-speed - where the native device will be, of course.

You really annoy me. I feel like doing one just to prove you wrong.

You do realise the "pandora crew" as I call them (the hardcore pandora fanclub) will take this as you pledging your allegiance to either "get full speed DS emulation on the Pandora or die trying" :rolleyes:

I mean, not to go off topic but I think Zodttd once said he would look at the code for some N64 emulators and now they all go about touting their "Zodttd is porting N64 so it should be fullspeed by release" horns.

Sorry for that little rant but it really does give a whole new meaning to the term "paraphrasing".

 

[adsharma23]

the emulation will not be at full-speed - where the native device will be, of course.

You really annoy me. I feel like doing one just to prove you wrong.


chad post some more that way Exophase will get so annoyed that he will try even harder and will eventually get it

 

[waffles]

the emulation will not be at full-speed - where the native device will be, of course.

You really annoy me. I feel like doing one just to prove you wrong.


chad post some more that way Exophase will get so annoyed that he will try even harder and will eventually get it

yeah, hopefully its one of the few other times chad would be happy to be proven wrong.

 

[palmertech]

@Chad: Glad to be of service.

As for the attachments... The guitar hero grip actually uses the GBA hardware. It registers the button presses by watching for several of the GBA cart data line to be pulled to ground. Emulating it would take an enormous amount of work, and with HLE, it would be near impossible. A lot of people are saying "oh m gee just use teh keyboard" but the problem is not figuring out a way to interface the emulator to the Pandora; it is getting the emulator to talk to the game. These are not normal button press calls like most emulators watch for, they are hardware specific functions. In addition, this would wipe out the possibility of porting an exsisting NDS emu, as none of them use the correct approach to handle these add ons.

One more thing: Face training camera=/ USB camera. It is another one of those devices that uses a special, proprietary, closed source transfer format. Interfacing a USB camera to it would be impossible.

Same with most of the other attachments: The odds of being able to emulate them is next to NOTHING. So get rid of all hope for them, and get back with the real discussion: OMG so I liek herd the Pandora2X can emulate DS at launch cuz Exo promised? Tat is teh PWNZR!

One more thing, God Ginrai: The Pandora screen is not multi touch. I believe you would be somewhat disappointed when you realize that you would not be able to press the chords and strum at the same time.

 

[PoisonedV]

Do you guys actually know how attachments for emulators work? You don't hack the source code, chad, that's just a stupid thing to say. You just forge the input, just like the default method of input on every single other emulator. jesus.

 

[Alpha2]

DS = 2 screens
Pand=1 screen

Really not the best of devices for emmulating the DS. how would that even work? turn it sideways and split the screen? Otherwise it's going to be tiny as hell. Also I can't see playing something like the Pandora on it's side either because the controls are not designed comfortably for that type of positioning.

Honestly the best device for emmulating DS is A DS. I havent had to buy a game for it in a year. Dont get me wrong I'm still pretty interested in the Pandora but lets be interested in it for the things that are viable and wont be a hassle to use even if they were technically possible.

 

[Tom`]

@Chad: Glad to be of service.

As for the attachments... The guitar hero grip actually uses the GBA hardware. It registers the button presses by watching for several of the GBA cart data line to be pulled to ground. Emulating it would take an enormous amount of work, and with HLE, it would be near impossible. A lot of people are saying "oh m gee just use teh keyboard" but the problem is not figuring out a way to interface the emulator to the Pandora; it is getting the emulator to talk to the game. These are not normal button press calls like most emulators watch for, they are hardware specific functions. In addition, this would wipe out the possibility of porting an exsisting NDS emu, as none of them use the correct approach to handle these add ons.

Perhaps a solution here could be found similar to the way the SNES mouse emulation was done (IIRC): find where the game stores the keypress data and just alter it directly. It wouldn't help for the camera, of course, but I don't imagine that's a deal breaker for most people.

 

[icurafu]

the emulation will not be at full-speed - where the native device will be, of course.

You really annoy me. I feel like doing one just to prove you wrong.


I agree with Chad, and furthermore would like to state that N64 emulation at full speed is also impossible. I know this because I know everything. There is no way that I can be proved wrong because I am so fabulous.

 

[palmertech]

No Icafaru, you need to state your point more clearly. Remember, you are never wrong, just sometimes too vague for all the poor ignorants! /chadbashing

This is where I am in more unfamiliar territory... But AFAIK, the DS actually uses part of the GBA hardware to translate those button calls. In that case, it would not be as simple as finding the spot in memory, you would have to emulate the GBA memory as well. Feel free to correct me, though, I might be wrong. I don't think anyone is going to take very long to add in guitar here support. Besides, there is a reason they have the grip: ergonomics. It might be possible, but not practical.

 

[Exophase]

No Icafaru, you need to state your point more clearly. Remember, you are never wrong, just sometimes too vague for all the poor ignorants! /chadbashing

This is where I am in more unfamiliar territory... But AFAIK, the DS actually uses part of the GBA hardware to translate those button calls. In that case, it would not be as simple as finding the spot in memory, you would have to emulate the GBA memory as well. Feel free to correct me, though, I might be wrong. I don't think anyone is going to take very long to add in guitar here support. Besides, there is a reason they have the grip: ergonomics. It might be possible, but not practical.

I don't know how this particular device works. But there's no GBA hardware that the DS games can use that isn't already being used by DS games on an ordinary basis, except usually the cart bus would be emulated as open (nothing on it). GBA emulators already emulate various devices on carts, such as real time clocks, the sunlight sensor in Boktai, gyroscopes, rumble packs, etc. Doing the same thing for DS devices would be similar - it's basically only as difficult as the device is complex. This one sounds pretty simple so it's probably not that bad, so long as someone has reverse engineered the interface.

 

[ashdjones]

Using this logic, there isnt one prospective system that Pandora should be allowed to emulate. as the Pandora is more expensive than every single system that is planned to be emulated.

even if it was able to emulate a 360, that would barely make it cost effective *roll eyes*

Well the way I see it, the DS can already boot a large collection of it's own games in rom form from a flashcard. Alright, so there are similar devices for GBA and Gameboy but I don't think these are even manufactured anymore and I don't know about their availability in the second-hand market. I also realise that similar things have been made for NES, C64 etc. in recent times but IIRC these are still expensive and hard to get hold of. And yes... I also realise that modchips exist for many older consoles, but again, these aren't in strong circulation anymore are they?

I don't really know what my argument is here. I actually think a working DS emulator would be wonderful assuming it was practical to use!

I do already own a DS, but then I do own (or have owned) practically every retro machine too.

 

[nickspoon]

I honestly can't see a DS emulator on the Pandora being playable. As somebody already pointed out, the two screens could be displayed at native resolution but due to the pixel density of the LCD on the Pandora they would be tiny. Turning the Pandora sideways to play the games would make pressing the buttons very awkward indeed.

So put me down for "don't bother, it's not worth it".

 

[Adventus]

QUOTE
I honestly can't see a DS emulator on the Pandora being playable. As somebody already pointed out, the two screens could be displayed at native resolution but due to the pixel density of the LCD on the Pandora they would be tiny. Turning the Pandora sideways to play the games would make pressing the buttons very awkward indeed.

So put me down for "don't bother, it's not worth it".
hmmm.... Its been discussed to no end in the other thread, suffice to say there are some great solutions.

One of which is, holding the Pandora normally, you can get one screen 2:1 next to a 1:1 screen. The size of the upsampled screen is ~ 60 x 45mm.... which is virtually indistinguishable from a real DS screen (62 x 46 mm). Ofcourse the 1:1 screen will be half that size, but you could assign a button to toggle which is currently being upsampled.

 

[jakshep2]

DS = 2 screens
Pand=1 screen

Really not the best of devices for emmulating the DS. how would that even work? turn it sideways and split the screen? Otherwise it's going to be tiny as hell. Also I can't see playing something like the Pandora on it's side either because the controls are not designed comfortably for that type of positioning.

Honestly the best device for emmulating DS is A DS. I havent had to buy a game for it in a year. Dont get me wrong I'm still pretty interested in the Pandora but lets be interested in it for the things that are viable and wont be a hassle to use even if they were technically possible.

OMG! and I thought I was ignorant! we have discussed this before, and the general idea is that 2 screens
can fit next to each other very easily, and not all games use both at once, so theoretically you could use just one.

 

[Chip]

I honestly can't see a DS emulator on the Pandora being playable. As somebody already pointed out, the two screens could be displayed at native resolution but due to the pixel density of the LCD on the Pandora they would be tiny.

Who says they both have to stay at native resolution?



Upper display is at 2:1, lower display is at 1:1. Here it is at approximately actual size:

I know there are some games that rely on the over-under screen positionaing, but this will work just fine for at least 80% of DS games. Now that the "hard part" is taken care of, all somebody has to do is write the emulator. :rolleyes:

 

[plopperz]

Honestly the best device for emmulating DS is A DS.

Now that's something I'd like to see. :lol:

EDIT:Used the wrong quote bar.

 

[Niros]

Native Resolution ≠ same size
Native Resolution ≠ playable size.

However, each "screen" of the DS at native resolution on the Pandora's 800 x 480 4.3" screen - *Would be LESS THAN 1.5 inches diagonal.*

(About 1.47485" to be precise. That's 1.18" × 0.88" (3cm × 2.25cm) at Pandora's 216.97 PPI, 0.1171mm dot pitch)

To be playable - there would *have to* be some scaling.

To put that in perspective - each DS screen is actually 3" - so the Pandora native-res versions would be less than half-sized. And people had a cow with the GBA went from 2.9" 240 x 160 screen on the GBA and SP - to a 2" 240 x 160 screen on the Micro.

You're talking about putting 10,752 more pixels in .5" less space.

I see what you mean, it would all be viewable, but at 0.5 inches it needs a magnifying glass. And the touch-enabled part would be difficult to interact with. It would be possible to 2x scale the touch screen or even toggle which screen is running at 2x scaled.

But of course this has already been mentioned.

 

[TaG]

I honestly can't see a DS emulator on the Pandora being playable. As somebody already pointed out, the two screens could be displayed at native resolution but due to the pixel density of the LCD on the Pandora they would be tiny.
Who says they both have to stay at native resolution?
Upper display is at 2:1, lower display is at 1:1. Here it is at approximately actual size:

I know there are some games that rely on the over-under screen positionaing, but this will work just fine for at least 80% of DS games.As has been said before, I think that would be very usable for many games. Thanks for taking the time with a mock up - hopefully people will visualise now. I think I am right in saying that the main screen would be displayed at virtually the same size as on a DS screen.

Now that the "hard part" is taken care of, all somebody has to do is write the emulator. :rolleyes:
:lol: Nice one.

 

[God Ginrai]

the emulation will not be at full-speed - where the native device will be, of course.

You really annoy me. I feel like doing one just to prove you wrong.


Please.

@Chad: Glad to be of service.

As for the attachments... The guitar hero grip actually uses the GBA hardware. It registers the button presses by watching for several of the GBA cart data line to be pulled to ground. Emulating it would take an enormous amount of work, and with HLE, it would be near impossible. A lot of people are saying "oh m gee just use teh keyboard" but the problem is not figuring out a way to interface the emulator to the Pandora; it is getting the emulator to talk to the game. These are not normal button press calls like most emulators watch for, they are hardware specific functions. In addition, this would wipe out the possibility of porting an exsisting NDS emu, as none of them use the correct approach to handle these add ons.

One more thing: Face training camera=/ USB camera. It is another one of those devices that uses a special, proprietary, closed source transfer format. Interfacing a USB camera to it would be impossible.

Same with most of the other attachments: The odds of being able to emulate them is next to NOTHING. So get rid of all hope for them, and get back with the real discussion: OMG so I liek herd the Pandora2X can emulate DS at launch cuz Exo promised? Tat is teh PWNZR!

One more thing, God Ginrai: The Pandora screen is not multi touch. I believe you would be somewhat disappointed when you realize that you would not be able to press the chords and strum at the same time.

Most of this is covered by the Exophase post below, but as far as the multi-touch is concerned: Although I realized that the Pandora screen is not multi-touch, it didn't even cross my mind that you would need to be touching the screen multiple times... ^_^; But I still hold by my affirmation that you could use the keyboard just fine.

No Icafaru, you need to state your point more clearly. Remember, you are never wrong, just sometimes too vague for all the poor ignorants! /chadbashing

This is where I am in more unfamiliar territory... But AFAIK, the DS actually uses part of the GBA hardware to translate those button calls. In that case, it would not be as simple as finding the spot in memory, you would have to emulate the GBA memory as well. Feel free to correct me, though, I might be wrong. I don't think anyone is going to take very long to add in guitar here support. Besides, there is a reason they have the grip: ergonomics. It might be possible, but not practical.

I don't know how this particular device works. But there's no GBA hardware that the DS games can use that isn't already being used by DS games on an ordinary basis, except usually the cart bus would be emulated as open (nothing on it). GBA emulators already emulate various devices on carts, such as real time clocks, the sunlight sensor in Boktai, gyroscopes, rumble packs, etc. Doing the same thing for DS devices would be similar - it's basically only as difficult as the device is complex. This one sounds pretty simple so it's probably not that bad, so long as someone has reverse engineered the interface.


So wait, GBA emus emulate the light sensor? how do they do that?

Native Resolution ≠ same size
Native Resolution ≠ playable size.

However, each "screen" of the DS at native resolution on the Pandora's 800 x 480 4.3" screen - *Would be LESS THAN 1.5 inches diagonal.*

(About 1.47485" to be precise. That's 1.18" × 0.88" (3cm × 2.25cm) at Pandora's 216.97 PPI, 0.1171mm dot pitch)

To be playable - there would *have to* be some scaling.

To put that in perspective - each DS screen is actually 3" - so the Pandora native-res versions would be less than half-sized. And people had a cow with the GBA went from 2.9" 240 x 160 screen on the GBA and SP - to a 2" 240 x 160 screen on the Micro.

You're talking about putting 10,752 more pixels in .5" less space.

I see what you mean, it would all be viewable, but at 0.5 inches it needs a magnifying glass. And the touch-enabled part would be difficult to interact with. It would be possible to 2x scale the touch screen or even toggle which screen is running at 2x scaled.

But of course this has already been mentioned.


No, No, No. He didn't say that the screen would be 0.5 inches. He said that the Pandora screen would be 0.5 inches SMALLER than the original size, which to tell you the truth, doesn't match up with his comments in the same post putting an original DS screen size at 3 inches and the size it would be on the Pandora at 1.5 inches.

-God Ginrai