Smach Z will pose some serious competition to the Pyra

[ElPoco]

Yes, and also that we need Craigixes as well as we need EDs.

 

[WizardStan]

Would you back a new Kickstarter campaign aimed only to produce an encapsulated prototype where the rewards wouldn't be the final console?

That doesn't seem so bad. If they're upfront about their intentions where is the problem?


If EvilDragon said "I need $100K to finish the prototype, here's a kickstarter for a bunch of shirts, keychains, other swag, signed bare-boards and 8 lucky rich-folk can get one of the prototypes" you know you'd be behind it, don't lie.

 

[mclien]

Most guys here (including me) are wearing glasses already, don't they?

No had to take out my reading glasses for this (need them only since 4 month, very annoying after didn't need them my whole life before)

 

[mclien]

Kickstarters rule for product development projects


" Projects that involve the development of physical products must feature explicit demos of working prototypes. While you can run a project focused on the creation of a prototype, you can't offer the product that is under development as a reward. "


Expect this to be booted before the project ends just as the Lazer Razer was, as I mentioned earlier

as huge as kickstarter is by now, I would expect a check about the working prototype BEFORE it gets online. at least a flag, that states "not yet comfirmed by kickstarter to apply some rules".

 

[erico]

First one on the comments section:


Dirty Engineer 1 day ago


@Creator, an update would be swell.


inda says it all. :rolleyes:


...

It gets better by the minute

jim nordquist 1 day ago



JEEZ, could you please just give me an update. You are making it very difficult to show how crowd funding works to my son and his friends when they spent their hard earned money to get this product, and get to watch you traveling and "living the dream" like they would love to do after getting funded for a product that just can't seem to get delivered. This is a very poor example for them and I am disappointed having encouraged them to see how the "kickstarter" thing works.


A great presentation, get the money, excuses, excuses, excuses, no acountability, "sorry", ran into production problems, excuse, traveling, no product yet, still working on figuring this thing out, working on other product launch, still no product, travel, here is another update excuse, my other product is taking up time... etc, etc. etc.


Now I have to figure out how to back pedal and explain to them, "this is not typical, where people make "cool" videos, walking around cool offices, getting funded, and then, whatever, just hang in there backers, eventually you might get your product."


I need to show them and back something successful and save face. I'm very "almost" ashamed to pick this project as an example of "how things work".


Please prove me wrong, and maybe, communicate with the sheople that used the paperboy money to back this.

It is trully a horrible way to make a campaign and have to read that, you don´t see comments close to it on successful well done ones, and I guess that comment is going to sit a few days before ,or even if, someone on the team actually gets to reply such. It is just pathetic. 

 

[erico]

I don't think there's a need to be so harsh against the people behind this. I doubt they did this just to grab money. I think they really believed in the project. They were just over-optimistic and not experienced enough.


Look at the Pyra: even with ED's experience, it's still quite a bumpy road. 


Making a new device is difficult (unless you want a copycat of something existing, or if you just want to sell it on a streetmarket in China) but if there were no people to blindly and over-optimistically do it, we'd have no Pandora and we'd be stuck with the same devices big manufacturers produce over and over.

I can´t agree with it, I take those examples as very different ones and cannot be on the same basket.


I don´t take those people as "over-optimistic", I take them for scammers for the reasons that:


1. They used Valve´s property without actually researching what they can do legally before, so they just took the name to cash in. It is like me doing a mickey mouse handheld campaign entitled "The first Mickey mouse handheld machine". Seriously, is that over optimistic? You could say naive, but really, REALLY, no one seriously thinking about creating a product would do it, it is just Scammy.


2. Kickstarter rules are pretty clear, they did not follow and that was on purpose, not optimism.


There are more reasons, but this should be enough point, they ask for $900k without even reading the instructions? Of course they did, they made the campaign, so they read through the rules.


Let´s look at Pyra. Ed has proven experience and proven to be above duty on responsibility. The project has constant clear communication of its up and downs. There are even some level of disagreement between the team on some points and nothing is hidden, no opinion is hidden, it is all there for the followers (not even much of backers yet!) to read through and play a part, even if some opinions could scare newcomers and potential buyers, it is all exposed. This is above the duty on being clear. They are only taking money for things that are pretty close to happen and they are not taking full money and I´m 100% sure that if something clusterf**ks, people will get the money back, as we already saw on the aluminium case.


Pandora was quite a different thing, it all started inside a community with similar interest and was partly shaped that way, it was DEFINENTLY not a showcase of the impossible to collect money worldwide on fake promises, it grew inside the community and it was more or less fine till mr.C started doing similar to the smach Z.


Stating that if it wasen´t for people like Craig, pandora would not be here is just a huge IF, you can´t be sure otherwise, so while it is a fact that he helped, it dosen´t discard what could have happen otherwise. We see people doing hardware projects of the game type, fail and success, EVERY year. The one I stated, Gamebuino, did not need a Craig at all, so it is not a must to have new open stuff coming about.

For my belief that they attempted scam, I think it is fine to take a laugh as finally, people (backers), are starting to wise up on this kind of project, if not, then maybe the fun/sarcasm could help some to think before they pledge. 


EDIT: and please no, we don´t need Craigs, no one needs Craigs (I know this is harsh, but don´t take it as personally to him, but for the attitude and actions towards others he chose to follow, so I actually mean people that do that, this kind of people destroy dreams, and if it wasen´t for ED it would have gone, now what is easier to find all around? Craigs or Eds? We were extremely lucky on that one).

 

[levi]

1. I'd say naive, since anything worse can't be proven.


2. I still regularly see Kickstarter projects that don't have a decent prototype to begin with.  It's easy for people who only skim-read the rules to think that wasn't necessary.


We did need Craig to kick start the Pandora develoment and to bring people together, but really the Pandora is MWeston and Fatih's baby, with a little worthwhile input from DaveC IIRC.  Craig had no real idea of product development, and the timescales involved, so was wildly overoptimistic and deluded himself, and mismanaged the money consequently.  What happened as a consequence of that doesn't reflect well on anybody really.

 

[Klumpen]

I don't think there's a need to be so harsh against the people behind this. I doubt they did this just to grab money. I think they really believed in the project. They were just over-optimistic and not experienced enough.


Look at the Pyra: even with ED's experience, it's still quite a bumpy road. 


Making a new device is difficult (unless you want a copycat of something existing, or if you just want to sell it on a streetmarket in China) but if there were no people to blindly and over-optimistically do it, we'd have no Pandora and we'd be stuck with the same devices big manufacturers produce over and over.

They either didn't read or deliberately ignored Kickstarter's rules (working prototype) when posting their campaign and renderings, so I think people are rather not harsh enough with them.


ED wouldn't do that, that's why we trust him.

We did need Craig to kick start the Pandora develoment and to bring people together, but really the Pandora is MWeston and Fatih's baby, with a little worthwhile input from DaveC IIRC.  Craig had no real idea of product development, and the timescales involved, so was wildly overoptimistic and deluded himself, and mismanaged the money consequently.  What happened as a consequence of that doesn't reflect well on anybody really.

Does anyone know if they're ok or maybe even helping with the Pyra? I didn't read anything from/about them anymore for a while.

 

[erico]

They either didn't read or deliberately ignored Kickstarter's rules (working prototype) when posting their campaign and renderings, so I think people are rather not harsh enough with them.

Spiced up with a strange use of Valve´s Steam.

 

[PowerGod]

@ElPoco: then I hope they have an ED somewhere

 

[GoldenSun3DS]

Canceled project...serves them right. But did you guys know they supposedly posted a survey too, and many of the questions are things like "if we post this on indiegogo will you back it?" and "would you back it if you don't receive a Smach Z as a backing prize?" Wow, can you sink any lower?


I found this from one of the backer comments.

Bad troll is bad.


Learn some reading comprehension.

Would you back a new Kickstarter campaign aimed only to produce an encapsulated prototype where the rewards wouldn't be the final console?

That's clearly asking if you'd back when the reward is the prototype version, not asking if you'd back for no reward at all.

 

[WizardStan]

That's clearly asking if you'd back when the reward is the prototype version

I don't read them saying that at all.  Seems to me they're talking about a campaign to build a prototype with non-console related rewards, things like T-Shirts, or mugs, or whatever.  Maybe a very small number of users could pay a lot of money for a prototype but there's no way they'd build a campaign entirely around prototype rewards.  Prototypes are really generally really expensive.

 

[Grench]

I don't read them saying that at all.  Seems to me they're talking about a campaign to build a prototype with non-console related rewards, things like T-Shirts, or mugs, or whatever.  Maybe a very small number of users could pay a lot of money for a prototype but there's no way they'd build a campaign entirely around prototype rewards.  Prototypes are really generally really expensive.

No, really, they're really really freeking really generally really freeking really expensive, really.  As in from 'Go' to the first 20 or so prototype units for that type of machine, with board design, small quantity order for all of the components, case molds (though 3d print would likely work for KS), etc, the real world $$$$ that have to be fronted are likely to be in the $100,000 to 200,000+ realm.


When ED sold 8 prototypes and 200 pre-pre-orders to raise money for working on the Pyra prototypes, I suspect that the resulting money -may- have covered the first round of actual board creation, population and testing with maybe some left over to assist with paying a month's salary and finishing up the molds.  In the right light, the prototype buyers are actually getting a bargain even though they're also fronting the community a tidy sum.


The odd part with the Pyra is that we're all getting insight to how expensive and time consuming it really is to go from concept to device.  The SmachZ team would do well to study the Pandora & Pyra history.  There is a lot to learn - and it's actually splayed out in far higher detail than any other project series that I'm aware of.

 

[levi]

it's actually splayed out in far higher detail

Freudian slip?

 

[erico]

I understand their question about backing  prototype as what they should have done in the first place if they didnt have it done before, as kicks rules states..and so many other of the questions.


Now im typing on mobile. Seriously. Really sicjs and take ages. Note 2 here. 10h travel.

 

[vcoleiro1]

Learn some reading comprehension.


That's clearly asking if you'd back when the reward is the prototype version, not asking if you'd back for no reward at all.

Ah no, that's absolutely not what its saying.   As I posted earlier , the kickstarter rules dictate that if you are to provide a product to backers, then you must show an explicit working prototype of that product.   The rule also says you can run a Kickstarter project to fund a prototype , but you can't offer the product as reward. Heck I'll quote it and bold it for you. that way you can see what they are proposing in the survey is an attempt to conform to the kickstarter rule which they originally didn't


" Projects that involve the development of physical products must feature explicit demos of working prototypes. While you can run a project focused on the creation of a prototype, you can't offer the product that is under development as a reward. "

 

[Majin Wamu]

Bad troll is bad.


Learn some reading comprehension.

I can say the same to you, and it seems several others have as well. You clearly attack people mindlessly when you are angry. I don't appreciate being called names either. I clearly stated several facts.

 

[Wally]

Bad troll is bad.


Learn some reading comprehension.


That's clearly asking if you'd back when the reward is the prototype version, not asking if you'd back for no reward at all.

You're seriously not considering yourself a troll after all this? That's clearly what the rest of us think you are.

 

[Neelix]

Does anyone know if they're ok or maybe even helping with the Pyra? I didn't read anything from/about them anymore for a while.

I seem to recall ED saying that he is still working with Fatih behind the scenes.  I believe he has helped source parts for the Pyra.  


I do also seem to recall ED announcing that MWeston was officially part of the Pyra team at one point,  though he didn't specify what he would actually be doing.  I got the impression that he was brought in as a consultant for the audio stuff.


-Neelix

 

[GoldenSun3DS]

Wording is key


"Would you back a new Kickstarter campaign aimed only to produce an encapsulated prototype where the rewards wouldn't be the final console?"


Notice the word "final". If they meant not having a prototype console as a reward, they would have just said "console".


"While you can run a project focused on the creation of a prototype, you can't offer the product that is under development as a reward. "


That doesn't rule out the prototype being the reward.