Slashdot Geeks!

[Demonix]

For Slashdot users they sound like Nintendo 12 year olds... a pity as I thought the people who use Slashdot were meant to have some sense of technology. The GP32 is a wonderful and very flexable bit of kit - what else do tech heads want these days?! I'm willing to let the short sighted "geeks" no see how good these little devices are - everyone whos got one knows what I'm on about!

<burp> ... sorry i've been drinking!

 

[chunk-e-munk-e]

can anyone translate that for me? if anybody else understands it

 

[skeezix]

You have to understand their position..

1) PEople like the GBA; sure , its a monolpoly and choice is good.. but if its a monopoly people like, they forget they want choice. Human nature :/

2) Few peopel read articles; the /. article was okay, but few people read it before commenting. Yeah, thats classic Slashdot crowd (all humans). What can you do

3) The GP32 is not better than the GBA. The GP32 crowd ternds to have a lot of elitists (ie: Just like the slashdot crowd .. the GP32 is no better (and no worse) than the GBA, but the GP32 crowd takes everything too personally

4) The GP32 is *not* good for everyone, and probably imho not good for most people. They're a little more expensive than a GBA, and it has a tiny tiny library in comparison. Furthermore, you cannopy buy a GP32 or its games from any store you'll ever see. And when you do buy one or a game, you get naile dfor duty ahlf the time.

I did a review of the GP32; it was 99% fully ;positive.. I *llve* my GP32. I'm also a programmer and techno geek. Most mom and pos and teens and slashfot people and everyone else in the wrold is just wanting a game machine they can play; they don't want to worry about korean, or duty, or how to get sutff. They want a machine right now and poof, its in their hands and eayto work with.

So the GP32 is *wickeD*. Great damned machine. But you can't get your feelings hurt when peopel don't like it. You dont' like a GBA? Good, thats your right, Theyr'e also allowed not to like ther GP32. Everyone is right And really.. the GP32 has the huge flaw that its not available, and has no games.

The trick is that we hope it grows more and more, to create a market for 3rd party game machines (GP32 and others, too), and that we make enough money for GP32 so they keep making games, and new units, so eventually there *is* a library for these units, so that we can start turnign it aorund and having a bi-opoly instead of a mon-opoly.;

But it wont' happen over night.

So dont' blame them.. they're right to dislike the GP32 in a lot of cases.

Of course.. the slashdot crowd is big and mostly cool.

The ones who *post* however, are all the flamey folks, who dont' eread the articles, have no clue, and onyl want to see linux on everythign since they're too cheap toi pay for things (not because of Right or Wrong, ri Freedom, or Rights.. they're just cheap

So yeah.. the /. crowd has a lot of lame people. But the GP32 is *not* for everyone. I'd never get one for my nephew. But I woudl get one for my geek pals

jeff

 

[Demonix]

Yes I totally agree there...

The thing is that they are commenting on something they have:

1. Never seen.
2. Never used.

So there points are null and invalid. Yes the GBA is a nice handheld (I've got one), the games are OK but the GP32 offers a lot more for a little more cash... the GP32 aint the sort of thing you'd give to a kid but for geeks its the ultimate retro machine What I dont understand is that the Slashdot forum users dont understand and will not take on board what the GP32 can offer. Their loss I suppose!

 

[Rico]

It requires more than a monkey's intelligence to make it work, that's the problem.

With the total lack of native commercial games (yet, when they break the UK this might happen), people have to find and download emulators, install the free launcher, go through the registration wizard, find roms or make them (let's be honest, who makes ROMs from their legit copies so they can play them on the GP32?) and do other associated blah until it works.

For us, no problem. Plus the GamePark gives us a totally open environment, open source libraries, freedom and huge portability options. It's heaven in a handheld.

For them, not marketable unless they can find an easier way to "just play a game" on the thing.

- Rico

 

[skeezix]

It requires more than a monkey's intelligence to make it work, that's the problem.

With the total lack of native commercial games (yet, when they break the UK this might happen), people have to find and download emulators, install the free launcher, go through the registration wizard, find roms or make them (let's be honest, who makes ROMs from their legit copies so they can play them on the GP32?) and do other associated blah until it works.

For us, no problem. Plus the GamePark gives us a totally open environment, open source libraries, freedom and huge portability options. It's heaven in a handheld.

For them, not marketable unless they can find an easier way to "just play a game" on the thing.

- Rico

(not that I started this thread, but being a developer who gets 300 emails a day from normal average joes using his software, I feel I have a good vantage point

Exactly. And its not a bad thing to not want to use your brain

Remember, its an entertainment device Just like an XBox is a compute rin a box. You could use your PC for the same stuff. But the XBox is psychological, just like a gamecube and PS2.. they try not to look like a PC in a box, or act like one.. ITs been proven that putting a PC in a box doesn't sell.. as soon as someone spots something halfway looking like it looks at work, they get annoyed. They want to *play*, and shrug off work.

And sometimes they want the latest games, not emulators of games from 10 years ago.

IF your'e a guy following the GBSA magazines.. GBA is for you. If you're someone who just wants to play, relax, kick back, GBA is for you. IF you're someone who isn't a techno weenie, GBA is for you. (See, you coudl be a genius, but just nmot a computer nerd. Or if you have ethical issues with copying roms.. GBA is for you. For everyone else, GP32 is perfect, or for those who want to break out and try somethign new, and as you say.. use the old noodle

We can only wish more humans want to use thei rbrain, but most peopel don't, and of the ones who do, most of them got burnout too

I also have a complaint; chekc the emu downloads.. most do not even include a README telling you how to install them or use them. The emu others are just plain lazy in that reghards.. they did the port for fun, for their own amusement and bragign rights and sall that.l Fine, thats cool. But I'm more hardcore than most, and I found myself opening emus with a hex editor to figure out the path to use, since the emu didnt' include a readme.

So the GP32 scene is very immature, and goes out of its way to scare people off with elitism and bad documentation.

But.. we're changing this. The emu sites hjave FAQs and how-tos, and I hope GP will start including english manuals with their games.. no one has any idea they can cast spells in Little Wizard till someone tells them how

I dont' blame peopel for not buying the GP32; most have never heard of it.

But its just not accessible enough for everyone. GP is a small companmy. So I hope this will change.

But I do hope the 10% of peopel who coudl be into GP32 find out about it. The mroe that get into it, the mnove the above will change..

Jeff

(BTW, I do own almost all or all the ROMs I use; a lot of us do. I've got more than 300 arcade PCBs in my basement, and boxes of Atari and TG16 carts/cards and all that

 

[Shrike]

If you read them most of them are just condeming it for being a games machine that can play ROM's

so can a PC, what are they using to post on the net

 

[Rico]

1. I'm not saying you wouldn't own the ROMs, more that you wouldn't bother to buy equipment to copy them to your PC. Supposedly Nintendo could still prosecute you for owning a NES ROM that you have the physical version of, but that's open to debate.

2. I would compare the situation to Linux. Linux started off as an open source skyrocket, with people porting things for 'bragging rights' and generally ignoring ease of use. Illdocumented files, etc, reigned supreme. Mainstream consumers weren't interested. Now with KDE, Mandrake, etc, Linux is starting to be a good desktop OS, with great ease of use. GP32 could easily go the same way.

- Rico

 

[skeezix]

1. I'm not saying you wouldn't own the ROMs, more that you wouldn't bother to buy equipment to copy them to your PC. Supposedly Nintendo could still prosecute you for owning a NES ROM that you have the physical version of, but that's open to debate.

2. I would compare the situation to Linux. Linux started off as an open source skyrocket, with people porting things for 'bragging rights' and generally ignoring ease of use. Illdocumented files, etc, reigned supreme. Mainstream consumers weren't interested. Now with KDE, Mandrake, etc, Linux is starting to be a good desktop OS, with great ease of use. GP32 could easily go the same way.

- Rico

Good calls Rico

1.) Also, with the big-N, you have to be careful; they like to sue firs,t then worry if it was legal later ROM legalities are pretty well known, though theres some big gray areas still :/

2) Good example; it probably also explains the abnormally high BSD/linux to windows user ratio for the GP32

jeff

 

[Arutha]

I also have a complaint; chekc the emu downloads.. most do not even include a README telling you how to install them or use them. The emu others are just plain lazy in that reghards.. they did the port for fun, for their own amusement and bragign rights and sall that.l Fine, thats cool. But I'm more hardcore than most, and I found myself opening emus with a hex editor to figure out the path to use, since the emu didnt' include a readme

-----------

And I have a complaint about all the people who whine about this...

1) As you pointed out, they did it for fun, in many cases releasing a BETA version just so we can have something to play with. They took the time to code this for you and you say they're lazy... make a website with expert howto directions for every emulator yourself then... unless you're lazy.

2) I've used almost every emulator (not all the ports, maybe thats different) and I've found the readmes to be fine in general... if you read them, and completely. Sometimes its hidden lower in the file than you might want to read when you just want to play games. For the ones that don't have readmes... well, I can't remember if I downloaded here or one of the other sites, but most of these sites have excellent little notes right along with the download telling you what to do. For one, I've had no problems figuring out the path to use, and I've NEVER opened an emu in a hex editor.

 

[Rico]

As you pointed out, they did it for fun, in many cases releasing a BETA version just so we can have something to play with.

I have to agree here, it is better that they release it (as long as it does say 'Beta') without some features. And of course I'd rather have it without a readme than nothing at all.

Hopefully though developers can add that kind of user friendliness (after they have done the main functionality) because it stops prospective buyers being alienated. Also, it is a little confusing how some roms go into \GPMM, some into \GPMM\SNES, some sort of 'standard' should be brought in

Also, with the big-N, you have to be careful; they like to sue first then worry if it was legal later ... ROM legalities are pretty well known, though theres some big gray areas still

Which is putting off a lot of developers from making emulation. For instance the GBA port is very hush-hush with only a few rumours ("it gets 10fps" ... "it's working but not finished") escaping out. Unless I'm totally out of the loop

- Rico

 

[skeezix]

I also have a complaint; chekc the emu downloads.. most do not even include a README telling you how to install them or use them. The emu others are just plain lazy in that reghards.. they did the port for fun, for their own amusement and bragign rights and sall that.l Fine, thats cool. But I'm more hardcore than most, and I found myself opening emus with a hex editor to figure out the path to use, since the emu didnt' include a readme

-----------

And I have a complaint about all the people who whine about this...

1) As you pointed out, they did it for fun, in many cases releasing a BETA version just so we can have something to play with. They took the time to code this for you and you say they're lazy... make a website with expert howto directions for every emulator yourself then... unless you're lazy.

2) I've used almost every emulator (not all the ports, maybe thats different) and I've found the readmes to be fine in general... if you read them, and completely. Sometimes its hidden lower in the file than you might want to read when you just want to play games. For the ones that don't have readmes... well, I can't remember if I downloaded here or one of the other sites, but most of these sites have excellent little notes right along with the download telling you what to do. For one, I've had no problems figuring out the path to use, and I've NEVER opened an emu in a hex editor.

See, I've got you. I've released one of those emulators, and I've done more open source and free stuff than most

They did the mu for fun, for kicks, for brags, whatever. But not including a useful readme means a lot of peopel won't be able to use it at all, or will go to message boards asking for help, etc.

I even made a list (check the archives).. of about 10 emulators, about 4 or 5 of them hasd no included README. PCEngine.. doesn't care, it looks anywhere. Then you get Snes9x which looks in a different place than SnesEmu.. it shows a directory listing, but if you pick a directory, it crashes.. you need to put the file sin GPMM. They've even released a few versions since the first one.. I know it takes 10 seconds to change the code to use GPMM\SNES, but they've left it as GPMM. That is *lazy*, no doubt about it. And sure, they're obviously makign it for themselves, since they've not thought about the users (you and me) at all in this sense. So since most people have SnesEmu and Snes9x both, you have two copies of the ROMs...

Theres a *lot* of issues like this in GP32 land, since its a young and small community. I'm not complaining about big things.. little things, that woudl make life easier for new GP32 peopel, and if you make things easier.. the community grows, more GP32s get sold, etc.

See, I've been building emus since before most eveyrone else; I been through the newbie-emu phase. Now I like to at least include a few READmes, and make a one page website or more to tell people, give some examples, etc.

This way I get no email asking me how to do it.. its all included. I save my time for writing code, not for answering "how do I use your emu" emails

You can't argue with me, I'm right 100%

jeff

 

[Rico]

skeezix ...

Snes9x is open source, I guess anyone could recompile it with working directory listing ... * gets idea *

- Rico

 

[skeezix]

skeezix ...

Snes9x is open source, I guess anyone could recompile it with working directory listing ... * gets idea *

- Rico

Is the GP32 version in the public SNES9X source tree? IF the current stuff is in there, its tempting.. if they've made a good makefile so it "just builds", I'd do it in a snap IF its a lot of work to build.. then no can do, I have too many of my own projects Since my ISP is down and I'm on a crappy dialup right now.. take a look and let me know

jeff

 

[MrT]

Where is the GP Snes9x source located, I have not seen it anywhere

MrT

 

[Rico]

Did some quick research, doesn't look good.

The port is based off the "Snes9x for porters" source from the official site, but is closed source. I could try contacting the author but it's not really worth too much effort, if he doesn't want it to be viewed, then he doesn't get any patches.

- Rico

 

[Arutha]

Kudos to you Skeezix, and if you want to complain to the developers, then you can I guess. You make some very good points, and I'm not saying that the developers for GP32 couldn't improve their documentation... so I'm not arguing with you.

My point is, 99% of the people who moan about the directories and such don't do a darn thing for the "community" except post whines and questions on forums. I would much rather have an emu without a readme than no emu at all because people don't want to listen to "But XXX game for SNES doesn't run fast enough/I don't like it w/o sound so make it work".

My other comment is right 100% - I have never posted a single question about where to put things on my GP32... why? Because I READ THINGS. Readmes are great yes, but like I said, most of these sites include information when downloading... or how about searching for the answer on a forum instead of posting it as a question? You say the developers are lazy for not fixing a few small things... I agree that they are small things that need fixed, but as they are doing it for free, let them fix what they want in the order they want. How about the people who USE the emus, too lazy to even search a forum to find an answer, just post and whine until someone gives you the answer you want.

As to SNES9x... yep, it sucks that the directory is gpmm\ and I wish they at the least hardcode it to gpmm\snes on the next release. But I'm still glad to have a SNES version that saves. Kudos to them for their hard work. And I hope I can someday put a Kudos to SKeezix for some awesome emulator, that will obviously include some great docs.

BTW - As I pointed out in a post complaining about it, far from an ideal solution, but be creative... you know you could use comi to move roms back and forth between directories rather than having two copies.

Now, as I'm writing this I realize that if I just stopped reading/posting on these darn boards, I could've written complete user friendly docs for everything and emailed them to the developers to include or websites to post. But hey, I'm guilty too

 

[roman]

what draws me to the gp32 mostly is the opensource. linux was great for computers and im excited theres a real possibility for opensource development on a handheld. the more i think about this thing the more im excited. my new job needs to start soon!

 

[Tobriand]

Hmm... readmes not in many emus? Well, albeit there's an issue with non-standardization of Snes directories, but of all the emus I've tried, there have been readmes as to where to put the roms - including Snes9x (the readme says, somewhere down the bottom "Roms in Gp:\\GPMM\" to quote - I think its under release notes for ver 0.01 or something).
The only emu I have found that DIDN'T come with a readme or notes on the site it came from was the snes emu from Zardoz - and the reason that didn't is because it was never supposed to be released; its a leaked beta. It was supposed to some out sometime later, and given the readmes of Zardoz's other emus (i.e. GPvGB) it's likely to have one as and when it does.
GPengine has its notes on the site, GPfrodo, I don't know - haven't tried... SCUMM had one, as with Wonderboi, SMS32... The Plus/IV emu I think has one too. I haven't checked the Speccy emu, admittedly; maybe that's without one. And from memory the early betas of Rlyeh's emus were without readmes, but there's info as to where to put the roms etc on the site (retrodev.net). Any others that people had trouble finding info for?

 

[qwerty]

I also have a complaint; chekc the emu downloads.. most do not even include a README telling you how to install them or use them. The emu others are just plain lazy in that reghards.. they did the port for fun, for their own amusement and bragign rights and sall that.l Fine, thats cool. But I'm more hardcore than most, and I found myself opening emus with a hex editor to figure out the path to use, since the emu didnt' include a readme

WEll, I have to say that I'm definitely LESS hardcore than most, and I managed to work it out in most cases.

what emus are giving you gyp then? In most cases, all you really needed was a bit of common sense.