Should Pyra have a Camera?
- Thread starter dgame
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rygD
Nihilistic Mystic
It is an interesting idea, if nothing else. I think if the camera isn't in some sort of hard case it might get damaged in a pocket or bag, and it might have trouble fitting into a case made for the Pyra.
I would also like to know if the silicone case would work for those that want a camera.
Other than removing or down sizing one of the SD card slots, there really doesn't seem to be room other than the lid (which needs a bigger case) and maybe the hinge.
We can use an "armor" case too. Something you just slide on. Link
Well, get the thing sponsored and produce it 
Not a reassuring joke or answer, to be honest. :lol: Surely a soft or hard case for the lid to hold and protect the usb camera pcb, is cheaperWell, get the thing sponsored and produce it
than building it in, right?
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FaeMinx
Rainbow Liberation Instigation
^ point being?
Just going ignore the people who are just here to get under people skins of people trying to find a compromise for a big basic feature of a convergent device. If by usb, so be it, but it has to be in away that isn't a self defeating purpose.
Btw, I think a hard slide on case or even replace the lid with a thicker lid would be the better option.
Btw, I think a hard slide on case or even replace the lid with a thicker lid would be the better option.
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Grench
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Give some consideration to how this would have to be implemented.
A camera module can not live in the lid. There simply is not room for the wiring through the hinge for it. The only connection going through that hinge is the MIPI signals for the display. Also, despite looks, the actual volume/thickness of the display area of the case is VERY thin. There is only enough thickness for the plastic bezel, the screen, the screen backlight/circuit board then the outer lid shell. I'm betting that if someone got out the calipers on it, there might be 4mm of total 'thickness' there out of the 30mm or so of thickness for the whole device. There is an illusion of more - but those outside 'wings' that help glare shroud the screen and provide stiffening to the lid don't count. The camera on your cell phone likely requires 5-7mm of thickness from the board it's surface mounted to to the case edge. The Pyra likely has all of 0.5-1mm from the lid's backlight circuit board to open air. So, unless we want to make the lid at least 10mm thick, a camera of any quality simply cannot live there.
It can't be on the bottom/back side of the motherboard. The SoC board, battery and stylus live between there and the back of the case.
It can't be on the top/front side of the motherboard. The controls, speakers, keyboard all live there.
I have yet to see a vertical edge-mount camera. If there were such a thing, though, there isn't room on the back - it's full of ports and shoulder buttons. The front is full with the wireless, SD slots and volume wheel. Putting it on the left/right side isn't exactly practical either.
The motherboard is -packed-. No more room for additional features.
The vertical space in the lower case lid (keyboard surround piece) to the left and right of the hinge area might be a theoretical spot - but the shoulder buttons live in most of that.
So, if you're even going to -consider- a camera, where do YOU think that such a feature should live within this already feature-packed device? Consider that it will need to surface mount AND need ~ 5mm of depth between the case edge it's peeking through and the board it's mounted to.
The Pyra project is too far down the road to add one now, but for a theoretical successor years down the road - where would you even put a camera?
Quite simply, there isn't room for this feature and, frankly, the majority would rather not have it.
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None of what you said doesn't negate that we can have a thicker lid or case, for the usb or built in camera. I don't remember anyone saying the wire can't go through the hinge, but I await confirmation.
Some of the "majority" are also paranoid hypocrites. Doesn't really reflect the real world. You know, the real world were most people want most of their stuff, including a camera, in a jack off all trades device. Willing to compromise, but we can just have a web flopping to the side and have the camera PCB exposed. That doesn't make any sense. You would have to hold the web cam and pyra every time you want to take a picture and that defeats the purpose.
I wonder if anyone is willing to sacrifice a feature for a built-in camera.
Some of the "majority" are also paranoid hypocrites. Doesn't really reflect the real world. You know, the real world were most people want most of their stuff, including a camera, in a jack off all trades device. Willing to compromise, but we can just have a web flopping to the side and have the camera PCB exposed. That doesn't make any sense. You would have to hold the web cam and pyra every time you want to take a picture and that defeats the purpose.
I wonder if anyone is willing to sacrifice a feature for a built-in camera.
FaeMinx
Rainbow Liberation Instigation
No.
Seriously... why not mod a case cover for the lid with integrated camera module.
I.e. if you want it so much, there is nothing stopping you from making a solution.
And because YOU want it so much, it rest on YOU to do something about it.
We don't want it.
ED doesn't want it.
... if your mod turns out to be feasable, some of us *may* follow in your footsteps.
If it's feasable and looks good too... hell, you *may* even get a successfull kickstarter going... *if* there are enough interested people. Hell, at that point, ED may be interested too and join the party.
But that is a lot of work YOU have to do first.
So what are you waiting for?
Doesn't take rocket science to figure out that he has a whole team behind him, every step of the way, with more know how to do things more efficiently and successfully than I ever could. This isn't even about building it in, it is about protecting and mounting the usb camera.
FaeMinx
Rainbow Liberation Instigation
My good sir...
... I do believe you are being self defeating.
There is nothing I can't do if I set my mind to it.
You have all the information you need at your fingertips.
All you need to achieve this is time, money and enough interest and determination to follow through.
ED has already stated he doesn't have the time, money, or interest.
So the ball is in your court my good man.
Grench
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I suspect you may be mistaken in that. From what I can tell, the structure is very small. It's ED running the show when not working his day job. Nickalous <sp> created the board designs as a contract/part time gig. Notaz is creating the OS - I have no idea if he's compensated for that work. I think ED has one other person working with him in his shop. Beyond that, the community provides any input that they can - sometimes admittedly too much. So, this 'whole team' you're referencing is like 4 people, and from what I can tell none of them are full time permanent. They're doing a fantastic job of it though - so I could see where you might be mistaken and think that there is a small army of developers in the background.
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aTc has so far done the brunt of the building the OS image, most of the kernel work has been done on Nikolaus's end of things so far. Notaz will most likely be needed to intervene to get some of the broken things working. And as far as I know all volunteer work.
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Grench
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My apologies - I did not mean to leave anyone off or minimize any roles. They are all doing a fantastic job of it!
Point still stands, though, that this isn't a huge team of developers working overtime hours on an unlimited budget.
Caine
Hardcore Member
I think such a side-mounted setup would be interesting. Especially if the camera can be rotated to face either forward or backward.
One possible way to attach it is to have a male tripod connector there such that you can screw on the camera. E.g. the cradle of the Mobius camera. You could flip the female connector piece to rotate the other way.
<edit>I doubt we have sufficient space inside the case to insert a female tripod mount connector. So, would it be feasible to drill a hole in the side of the case, put a male tripod mount screw through it and still be sturdy enough to hold up a small form-factor camera without breaking?
</edit>
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edgex004
Advanced Member
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I finally was able to get good speed and synced video/audio by utilizing ffmpeg and a better webcam that I had laying around (better than the $3 one from china I was testing at least)
So I am currently looking at this:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00VLXV4FU/ref=pd_aw_sbs_421_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=0M3TKKMTFH44M9KST8W8
And setting my sights on a more basic solution right now. Basically make as slim of a case/clip as possible for this camera and give it a short 2-3 inch usb cable. Can then be somewhat portable and forward/backward facing as desired.
With the old camera I was getting 9-10 fps at 320x240. With the next one I am getting 15-20fps with audio at 320x240 and around 9-10fps at 640x480 with audio.
Is there a way to tell were the fps limitation is coming from? If it is the pandora cpu or usb speed, ffmpeg from the angstrom repos that would be aided by optimizations and native compile, or maybe just a limitation of the webcam itself?
So I am currently looking at this:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00VLXV4FU/ref=pd_aw_sbs_421_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=0M3TKKMTFH44M9KST8W8
And setting my sights on a more basic solution right now. Basically make as slim of a case/clip as possible for this camera and give it a short 2-3 inch usb cable. Can then be somewhat portable and forward/backward facing as desired.
With the old camera I was getting 9-10 fps at 320x240. With the next one I am getting 15-20fps with audio at 320x240 and around 9-10fps at 640x480 with audio.
Is there a way to tell were the fps limitation is coming from? If it is the pandora cpu or usb speed, ffmpeg from the angstrom repos that would be aided by optimizations and native compile, or maybe just a limitation of the webcam itself?
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