Shipping On The 4Th?

[Sphinxter]

This entire scenario is in complete contradiction to the amount of stuff produced with plastics made in China.

 

[may88]

That about sums up the shitty way they do business. Dishonest and lazy.

It is why I won't ever use a Chinese company again (that and reading up on how they treat their workers).

You hold people's money for over 18 months with one false promise after another. You are in a very bad position to criticize business practices of others.

Apart from the people waiting can have a refund at any time?

So if the factory told you that you could have a refund at any time, it would somehow make all the delays acceptable?

If we wanted to drop the whole project, yes, but we don't.

I've got like 10mins while Ed does some server stuff to answer any more of your trolling if you like, if it makes you feel good?

It's a sign of how busy Craigix is, on a Bank Holiday, that he is not pissed and asking for your order numbers.

@Ed: Nude calendars

Now where did I put that emoticon puking up? Let's review the assembly webcam images before we start talking nudity here.

 

[cuetzpalin]

It's just funny to see how a lot of people blame the decition of having the cases made in China.

I understand that most of Chinese products are known to be bad quality and the epitome of poor production standards, however, if you just look at most of the tech stuff you own, you will notice how almost all the big brands have their products Made in China.

This is one of the reasons why the chinese produce pirate versions of almost everything... they manufacture almost every product in the world, they know all the components inside, so they just copy the cases, look and feel, use cheaper components that kinda work like the real products, and they are done!

China is currently the best place to get anything manufactured because of low production costs, of course it is not the entrepeneur heaven, and you will have to pass through a lot of misunderstandings and cultural issues; Not any factory is good and surely there are lots of factories that work with worst methods than the one making the OP cases, but there are also factories with better ethics and close to western standard policies, probably those factories even have english speaking support staff and always say the truth.

Now, if you look at the pictures posted by MWeston, you can see that the cases are definitely no bad quality, this factory actually produces good products, they just take a lot of f*ng time and lie to their customers, but won't deliver crappy cases and won't run away with the money.

 

[Uh...Clem]

You have to understand they just lie and lie and lie to us. It may well be that the person telling the lies really believes them to be true because it is what he is told. Who knows. It's all smoke and mirrors constantly. This is just how they seem to do business.

I tend to think it's a cultural thing due to the previous and, to a lesser extent, current motivational technique used there which they became accustomed to: an SKS or AK muzzle pointed at the base of the skull. Anything else is probably laughable to them. The massive, systemic corruption doesn't help either.

The rumour that the PCBs were made in China isn't entirely true, the (American) PCB company had them made for us, and used a facility in Asia (which they may well own) for some of the work. We know no more about it than that. They were certainly populated and tested in Texas.

Perhaps they did some PCB manufacturing steps in China because of the hazmat associated with it? In China, they just dump that kind of stuff in a river which is a much cheaper disposal method than what has to be done in any western nation:

http://www.chinahush.com/2009/10/21/amazing-pictures-pollution-in-china/

 

[Gricey]

To see what you guys are doing, it's great. You've learned a lot of things the hard way, but now they're just cool-looking scars that all the chicks dig. You've got my money, and my faith, and I'll wait until my Pandora hits the mat. Then I'll help out where I can.

All y'all naysayers need to take a few steps back and chill out. This 3 months are better than the last 3 months, and the next 3 months... well we may have them by then. So party on!

 

[rv6502]

That about sums up the shitty way they do business. Dishonest and lazy.

It is why I won't ever use a Chinese company again (that and reading up on how they treat their workers).

You hold people's money for over 18 months with one false promise after another. You are in a very bad position to criticize business practices of others.

Apart from the people waiting can have a refund at any time? They are waiting because they are part of the Pandora project and want to see it succeed.

Dare I say, unlike you?

I'm just replying to show support since whiners tend to be a lot more vocal, gotta get some positive in the forum

you still got my money and I'm still happily waiting.

GO GO OPENPANDORA TEAM!

*does a little cheer leading dance* :lol:

don't give up guys!

 

[droneb]

another stupid topic about stupid ranting about stupid factory and running down to badgering chinese.

thats what they get for not knowing how to deal with business.

if they ordered those cases in LA or africa (in the supposition of costs being the same) and not knowing how to deal with it they would end up in the same sh1t.

i would have cancelled long ago if i could. i just dont want to loose nearly 50% of my money at the risk of loosing it all
:S.

PD: and dont you tell me OPT didnt lie at all, they keep saying "almost there".

 

[gruso]

I expect nothing less than a text adventure with the embellished truth of pandora making.

You're already playing the text adventure.

You are standing on a road that stretches far into the distance. To the east is a case factory. 
 To the west, a murmur of restless people inhabit the woods. A volcano simmers on the north horizon.
 
 > south
 
 You are in a twisty maze of threads, all alike.

Damn!

 

[RoboShmup]

I have been eaten by a Pleng

 

[Kaniu]

We are planning to buy a 3D printer for our future endeavors. It's a credo of mine that we should be more in control of these things.

First priority should be to improve the quality of your communication with your customers. I still have the email which says

[quote name='Craig & The Pandora Team' date='21 Nov 2008' ]We plan to start shipping the first orders in December with the 256MB upgrade.[/quote]
There is no way you could have kept that promise even if the cases were ready when you sent that mail. I really don't mind the 18 months of waiting that much. The unkept promises are much worse. And I don't think you can blame the Chinese for the whole 18 months, can you?

 

[droneb]

not to say it was OPT decision to give "NO GO" to the cases until having an "acceptable sample" in your hands.
(im not saying this is wrong)

 

[darkborn]

I think hand-crafting each case individually out of wood would have been less trouble.
Something like this
I've still got until hell freezes over before i cancel, so its still looking good for me too.

+1
And, I want that wooden case too!

 

[Monk]

It saddens me, but you're probably right (although I would call it BAD business instead of good). East west, it doesn't matter. What I don't get is why. There's something called long-term customer relationship, which to me means that if you treat your customers right, they keep coming back spending money for the wonderful product and service you're selling. Being a customer myself most of the time all I can say is that it does work.

It certainly works for me, but I've been told repeatedly that the way I work isn't viable. That you can't be ethical and honest and stuff.

However, approaches like mine (as a business) and yours (as a customer) only works if I want - and get - repeat business. If I don't care about repeat business, I can shaft customers, no problem. All I need is to have a willing pool of new customers to replace the old ones. If I can ignore lost customrs and just fill the order books with new ones - and there are LOT of people and companies on a world-wide scale that have not dealt with me - then, as detestable an attitude as it is, I might just make more money by being a jerk.

That's why so many companies find it valuable to treat their customers poorly. Because there are more potential customers than they could dream to supply constantly, so they don't NEED repeat business. An attitude it seems Jumpman has encountered all too often worldwide (I ran back to add that line rather than quote Jumpan and just nod).

That about sums up the shitty way they do business. Dishonest and lazy.

Well, to be "fair" (not a word I commonly use in combination with busines with the Chi...ah, plastics factory) from the chinese point of view the Westernaers trying to get them to do top-dollar work for bottom-dollar isn't entirely great either.

Yeah I'm sure we will get those cases, they do exist as we have seen photos of hundreds of them, however for all the hassle I would have rather paid more in the UK over a 12 month contract.

I'll be proud to put 'Not made in China' on the Pandora, and to support local business - and the price of the Pandora won't change a great deal.

I'm a little confused about how taking case manufacturing elsewhere won't cause a HUuuuge price rise in the Pandora

I don't understand why your not in china cracking the whip! You should of got someone over there ages ago.

Having already paid the plastics factory in full, OpenPandora may not have a whip to crack. They may, in fact, be having to tread fairly carefully and politely in the hopes of not angering a company half a world away over whom they hold no power

I worry even about getting the molds or mold designs back from this plastics company, undamaged at least.

I think I'm picking up some subtle undertones of craig bashing in pleng's post, I can't be certain though

You think? Possibly a little? I'm reading a little frustration there too. Maybe more than a little. I hope this doesn't become a jab-fest as a result of frustration all around.

I'm a little confused now.

So after the 4000 cases are finished producing, OpenPandora is moving production out of china? Or is OpenPandora halting production immediately to move production out of China?

From what we have previously been told, OpenPandora are into the Plastics Company for a single order of 10,000 cases. That's the first batch, second batch, and third batch cases in all likelyhood, altready ordered and paid for.

After that, it seems, OpenPandora may make their cases somewhere else as the faith in the existing plastics company has faltered somewhat. Though they could change their minds, in the meantime. With 10,000 cases on order they have a little time in hand.

I expect nothing less than a text adventure with the embellished truth of pandora making.

You're already playing the text adventure.

You are standing on a road that stretches far into the distance. To the east is a case factory. 
 To the west, a murmur of restless people inhabit the woods. A volcano simmers on the north horizon.
 
 > south
 
 You are in a twisty maze of threads, all alike.

Damn!

Best post of the thread!

 

[darkborn]

If Craig published the diary into a retail book I would buy it. Especially if he embellishes the truth a little. Add a vampire or a werewolf. Or add a crack commando unit was sent to prison by a military court for a crime they didn't commit. Or Craig could conveniently change his surname to Bond and write about times of international espionage while creating the Pandora hand-held computer.

I expect nothing less than a text adventure with the embellished truth of pandora making.

YEAAAH! I thought about it for a while... I'll make some Zork style or GAC for C64...
If somebody do not before me (bussy).

 

[cuetzpalin]

Well, to be "fair" (not a word I commonly use in combination with busines with the Chi...ah, plastics factory) from the chinese point of view the Westernaers trying to get them to do top-dollar work for bottom-dollar isn't entirely great either.

^ Thumbs up!
May the ranters listen to you!

 

[Monk]

Well, to be "fair" (not a word I commonly use in combination with busines with the Chi...ah, plastics factory) from the chinese point of view the Westernaers trying to get them to do top-dollar work for bottom-dollar isn't entirely great either.

^ Thumbs up!
May the ranters listen to you!

Hang on - I thought I WAS one of the ranters!!!!?!

 

[kin]

We've had a number of rather excellent videos linked to on the subject, but to oversimpl;ify only slightly it goes something like this.

WESTERNER: Aha! I can get stuff made in the Far East at a knock-down price and sell it for a high price in the West! Even if I don't have any significant skills in the area! I might even be able to get the design work done for cheap in the East! Those stupid Far East workers and factories will charge me a pittance for doing all the work and I will reap all the profits of selling to my Western customers!

EASTERN FACTORY: Dumb Westerner, he thinks he will work us like slaves and take all the money himself? He can go on bottom of prioriry pile. He pays cash up front, we have no need to do better work or faster work, he can get the rubbish we give him when we feel like giving it to him. Come on lads, it's tea-break!

Of course, there are wrinkles and complexities beyond that - but I love the video where some idiot Englishman thinks the Eastern factory will design and make his scooters for him to flog for huge profit in the West, only to discover that they have been sending him design photos from a neighboring factory while they do no work at all for the money he sends them. The factory chief is well pleased with himself - they have made lots of money for no work, that is GOOD business. The fact that many Westerners are Rubes is not THEIR fault! As far as many of these cheap-as-chips Eastern companies are concerned, they do the minimum work for as much money as they can get. Sadly, that's the way Western businesses work as well - but Westerners are a lot closer and cannot blame language difficulties so easily.

Another way of looking at it is a very wise saying in the field of commerce - "you get what you pay for". The Chinese Factory that OpenPandora chose to use, and that (a?) team member/s have (reputedly?) used before, are the cheapest. OpenPandora went to them because they were cheap. They have received cheap service.

That about sums up the shitty way they do business. Dishonest and lazy.

It is why I won't ever use a Chinese company again (that and reading up on how they treat their workers).

Laws exist in the UK to stop that sort of behavior and to protect us.

Yeah I'm sure we will get those cases, they do exist as we have seen photos of hundreds of them, however for all the hassle I would have rather paid more in the UK over a 12 month contract.

I'll be proud to put 'Not made in China' on the Pandora, and to support local business - and the price of the Pandora won't change a great deal.

Cmon to be honest, you have to play the game with the Chinese a bit more tactically.
And the production volume is simply too low to keep them interested.

Big companies don't cope with this problem.

 

[Sugar_Kane]

There is definately a lot of bad blood at the moment. I have no doubt that every last pandora will sell, but I see a lot of veterans reaching the end of their tether, waiting for one last upset to abandon the project. It would be sad to see old faces getting off the ride.

 

[cosurgi]

When it was posted that Fatih was actually going to China, finally, to see these production run cases, I was thrilled! It's like "finally, some work will get done."
Sadly, the factory sent the samples to MWeston and he agreed they were ok, so I think the "Fatih goes to China" adventure was called off. If he had been there to yell at them (via translator) for even one week, there is no doubt in my mind the first 1000 cases would be on their way by now.

He needs a Visa to go there. To get a visa, he needs to give away his passport for a while so that the authorities can create the visa.
Unluckily, that means he cannot go to UK when they ship the cases before he gets there.
Idiotic, I know.

No matter how long making this Visa takes.... you won't be seeing cases before you actually make this Visa. You could also play with the destiny by making Visa and receiving cases just in time when he cannot come, because he has no passport. Which you would prefer:

• having cases and having to wait for him to come,
• or not having cases, but being ready to come by keeping passport ready?

That "destiny play" could actually work, because china will get scared hearing that Fatih "is coming right about now", and will deliver cases faster. Just try it!

 

[paddy]

After a re'reading of the last 8 pages ,i now understand that these first 1000 cases have been produced and painted and ready to ship out apart from a problem with the case company getting documents ready to ship ,now come on people this can't really be seen as a delay now can it ? so what if they are 5 days out from the original ETA ? does it really matter.I don't know why i read it that the cases were not even produced yesterday but from Craigs post a few pages back it seems he has saw 100's of cases completed ,this would be the 1000 cases so i don't really see a problem with OPT or the case company to be honest just have some patients for the other factors of shipping that are not in OPT or the case company's control.