Replacement Interface

[garteth]

I think I would prefer icons to a list as a list would make it look more like an mp3 player than a gaming device. I think lists are used for mp3 players because people have a lot of songs to list similar to the back of a cd case. Lists seems like a good idea for browsing files, like in a file manager but for quick access to things like commonly used applications icons would be better.

 

[Sephnroth]

It should obviously be as customisiable as possiable. Some of us like lists, some like icons, some like icons in different places, some people want a preview and some people dont.

Do not discuss with the objective of reaching a conclusion that everyone will like - it doesnt exist, the only way is to make it changable so everyone can have it how they want it. I simply do not like some of Daves suggestions for example and thats not going to change. He does and thats not going to change either. For us both to be happy we will need to be able to change it to suit our tastes

There is no reason why this should cause any slow down during boot. it needs to write a conf which it reads before intialisation and then loads the features you want and ONLY those features - this should mean no slow down for those who dont want it. People who want lists wont have to load icon images for example.

What would also be nice is a Lean mode where the gui is drawn simply by defining areas of the screen with lines and everything inside is plain text - only thing configurable there is the line and text colour. but for those who want super simple it should boot and run exceptionally fast with absolutly no media to load.

etc etc.

Eitherway i just dont think its worth any of us talking about what we think it should look like. I think we should be designing a flexiable system and when its finished then we can all make it look like however we want.

 

[garteth]

I agree with that, I was just stating what I preferred. I guess it's not much use to anyone though But atleast we have a list of the different styles that could be implemented. Colours should be customizable aswell so with the interface with the dark colours, the dark colours really aren't an issue.

 

[Hanz™]

Lists work very well when screen space is needed for other things. Or when you want to have collumns showing Artist, Album and so on.

​

That is fine for those that use the GP2X only as a power hungry MP3 player. For everyone else it would suck. Besides the music player itself can have it listed like you say. It is not needed for the main interface, it is way too boring.

Also lists don't work any better than icons when you need screen space for other things whatever that may be. Icons can be placed anywhere.

Having only a list would make the GP2X look boring, it would totally ruin the look of it. Imagine when someone turns one on for the first time and is confronted not by a nice looking slick interface with great artwork but instead a drab list of text.

No way.

​

As I rightly said Lists are very good for mp3's.
I am not so sure why you think I was suggesting lists for everything else? Since I specifically mentioned an mp3 in my post.
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I don't think a totally customisable interface is plausible.

 

[m8ex]

Look at this.

It's a list and it's have icons!!
Small icons(16x16) but it is icons. And it's shows 40 files at a time!!!1!one
and it's good for everything not only mp3's

 

[Hanz™]

Look at this.

It's a list and it's have icons!!
Small icons(16x16) but it is icons. And it's shows 40 files at a time!!!1!one
and it's good for everything not only mp3's

​

For scrolling through pictures I would suggest my original design. And with thumbnails for icons, the preview pane would definitely be useful for that.

Edit: With some actual proper input, with parag0ns most recent design, I think that if DaveC's tile system is too be used the category bar should be on the top not on the left, as then L and R can be used to go through the category bar, and the joystick for the items. Makes more sense to me.

 

[ThorC]

Do not discuss with the objective of reaching a conclusion that everyone will like - it doesnt exist, the only way is to make it changable so everyone can have it how they want it. I simply do not like some of Daves suggestions for example and thats not going to change.

My thoughts exactly - people use their GP2X's for differnet things, people have different tastes, people have different things that they like to do and people have a different idea of what they would like their gp2x to look like. Therefore it's less important to try to find a definite conclusion that everyone will like and more important to discuss the process that will allow people to reach their own interface

I don't think a fully programmable interface is a good idea – It needs to be easy to make new interfaces, and skins for those interfaces. What I suggested in my post awhile back I think still stands as the best approach. We need a standard set of “widgets” such as icon areas, select item description etc... and then you use XML to determine which “widgets” are placed where.

--this post--
http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?showt...ndpost&p=361086

​

This was along the lines of what I was thinking as well. I was thinking of an HTML or XML like format, in which it's possible to position various controls which could have various actions assigned to them, and styles to make skinning easier, with widgets to provide more functionality.

The screens would hold the various elements below. Each screen would have it's own definitions, and the interface could move through the screens as required. Think of them as like 'pages' on a website, perhaps.

The styles, similar to CSS, could make it easy to create a certain style and re-use it throughout the interface, instead of having to constantly definite attributes.

The actions could set up what happens when a button is pressed. Simple ones could be built in, such as changing to a different screen, changing CPU speed, launching a file, navigating etc.

The controls would be simple. Things like images, buttons, tabs, browsers (Database or directory), each with various customizable attributes (eg. a browser could be a list or it could be iconical. You could specify the rows/colums and the size of the icons etc.)

Finally, widgets could display things interactively, such as the CPU speed, whether TV out is on, memory free, battery left, and could be styled and placed onto the interface screens.

If you haven't seen it already, my attempt was posted here a little earlier, trying to show a possible definition of a screen and the various elements and how it could look

Just my thoughts and just trying to contribute - One of the things I'd most love to see is a customizable interface for the gp2x. An interface which isn't too difficult to construct, and which could enable some great skinning

 

[rokdcasbah]

i get the feeling that some of you have really dark monitors. i don't find tebb's mockup to be all that dark...but i could see where having your monitor brightness lower could make a huge difference. try opening it on the gp2x file viewer.

also i think xml is overkill for something like this...it would mean the menu program would have to have xml parser libs loaded...

 

[Hanz™]

also i think xml is overkill for something like this...it would mean the menu program would have to have xml parser libs loaded...

That is possibly true, it doesn't really matter what is used, as long as it is simple and powerful.

 

[Hanz™]

Okay, I just spent quite some time on photoshop (my first time I have done anything other than simple photo edits - but I realise that nobody will pay attention unless you show flashy stuff) and have made some demo images of what I would have liked my interface to look like. I did one with the DaveC look as well, as I think that whatever is made should be able to show stuff like that too.

Some of it is still pretty rough - I made the icons very slightly too large, and the font should be small and pixely so that it is easier to see.

As you can see the idea about this interface is bars that can move, rezize, get deleted, created etc...
Also those bars can scroll continously.
I didn't show the items scrolling I just swapped them - I am lazy.

Interface 1:

This is pretty much just what I first recommended. As you can see the preview pane, could be used to display the point last reached in the emulator - devs would just have to make a jpg (or other image file) when the user did a savestate. Obviously only some would be bothered to do this, but it could have a use - and it would be very simple to do.
Up and down to cycle the bar on the left up and down.
Left and right to cycle the bar on the bottom left and right.
L and R to move the bar on the bottom left or right 3 items at a time.

Interface 2:

DaveC view. I fecked this up very slightly, but that is more or less it. I think that the interface should be able to do this as well.
L and R to move the bar on the top left or right an item at a time, leaving the joystick free to move through the items all the time.

Interface 3:

When the Images category is selected thumbnails of the images are loaded up and the main panel is expanded to give a preview. I think this should all be done through widgets, and would like to say that the image category does not even have to exist as all of the categorys but settings should be scripted.

Interface 4:

Film view. Pretty much self-explanatory. Yet again when someone has the source they could choose to make it take a screenshot once you make a bookmark in a film.
As you can see the bar on the top that previously had just the Battery can have other items in it (you can choose what to show there, by checking the correct boxes in the settings. After all who wants TV-out in there if they don't even own a cable, and the same with USB, etc... Perhaps "serial cable" could be added there too even.

Interface 5:

In the settings category there could be a File Manager, which changes all of the panels yet again.
Once you are in the file manager the joystick shall no longer move the bars, but shall control the file manager, L or R should go in between the option panel (cut/copy/paste) and the main panel.
Select could exit the file manager.

Sorry that I did not add some text for each item, this would be easy but I am lazy and thought it would look nice to have text for only the selected item.
Does anyone think this would be a nice default interface?
I really don't buy what DaveC said about a list not allowing, easy use, but I think that people who think that should be able to choose his type of interface.
I think that since L/R shifts through items 3 at a time, you should be able to move through my lists very quickly, and in less button presses - most of the time. And anyway how many emulators does one person keep on his GP2X at any one time?
As I said earlier, I would like to beable to choose the daveC interface in the setttings. As it would be useful certainly if you had more than 30 items - aka homebrew games etc...

Edit: Sorry about the far too curvy panels too, they should be curved at the edges, but nowhere near that curved. lol

 

[thelamer]

That shit is hot as hell Hanz™ .

 

[Hanz™]

That shit is hot as hell Hanz™ .

​

Thanks man.
As I said, first use of photoshop ever, I practically died while making this.

I bet tomorrow I check if anybody thought it was any good, and the thread has dropped onto the next page (due to the competion maybe?)

Edit: Before anybody says that there is a lot of stuff to do, I agree, but it is possible and if everything is kept very modularlised, and so on. Certainly attainable.
I could help with simple stuff such as design, I just can't write really complex C code.

 

[Rayek]

I love that idea. Presumably, you could set the menu up as one or the other. I'd assume it's not that hard to do, it's just a rearranging of the icons and an omission of the second bar, as well as the preview image and some text....

 

[Hanz™]

I love that idea. Presumably, you could set the menu up as one or the other. I'd assume it's not that hard to do, it's just a rearranging of the icons and an omission of the second bar, as well as the preview image and some text....

​

Really there is no reason we shouldn't be able to work all of this out. Just take Ideas of what people want and then try and think how best they could be implemented.
Yes I agree though it should definitely be possible to set up the interface as one or the other.

 

[DaveC]

I really don't buy what DaveC said about a list not allowing, easy use, but I think that people who think that should be able to choose his type of interface.
I think that since L/R shifts through items 3 at a time, you should be able to move through my lists very quickly, and in less button presses - most of the time. And anyway how many emulators does one person keep on his GP2X at any one time?
As I said earlier, I would like to beable to choose the daveC interface in the setttings. As it would be useful certainly if you had more than 30 items - aka homebrew games etc...

​

Lists allow easy use just not AS easy as navigating is sequential rather than random for programs. For other things it would be ok. I also said they are just boring. I still don't care for the first PSP type layout. This may not be a problem for some that only have a few apps but if you get a 2 or 4 gig card and fill it ,with your first example that will be bad, lots of scrolling. 5 or 6 icons per catagory just won't cut it. The interface changing depending on catagory would be ok. It is kind of like having the app as part of the interface rather than a separate program, that is good. I hope that GPH could handle code that complex. As far as choosing your own yeah it would be nice.

 

[Hanz™]

As far as choosing your own yeah it would be nice. I have doubts that they will do that as it is more work to code. GPH seems to have a hard enough time just getting what we have right.

Well I don't think that GPH are going to actually do this themselves, I think the idea is that we make one ourselves.

Why have the big dead space on most of the screen? Why is that desirable to you so much?

The same reason that it is desirable for most PC users to have a sparse desktop. Looks ("Less is more" is a wellknown GUI approach also). To be honest my design doesn't give alot more dead space than yours does in all those images. I think you would need about 30-40 items to fill the main panel in your design, I don't think there ever will be that many emulators. You will get even more "deadspace" in your idea if you went into the category "video" as presuming there are films in there, you cannot fit that many films on even a 4GB card. Potentially most users who have a 1GB card could be seeing a huge void. So lets not even get into "deadspace".
Would you wanna have icons all over this wallpaper?

You seem to love having most of the screen unused or with redundant info such as the author of the app.

Okay that is true, that is (creator) kind of redundant, but to pretend that that can be used as a generalisation of the rest of my interface at all, is obviously fallacious. Take the metadata in Video for example, since when is knowing the resolution, duration and codecs used not useful?!
Or is knowing the filesize and what a file opens with, in the filemanager not useful. No, that is very useful.
I haven't added it here but a worthy addition to the metadata would be a second category for e.g. "16bit system". This would mean that you could categorise the emulators in lots of other ways, certainly this would be useful in my opinion. And secondly I have said that there is no reason that stuff like this (properties pane) could not be switched off.

Lists allow easy use just not AS easy as navigating is sequential rather than random. I also said they are just boring. The main thing I don't like is that you don't see many items. This may not be a problem for some that only have a few apps

Look. Consider how many programs somebody has on their card.
If your design is used and the icons are the same size as mine you will need to have 5 or 6 items before you even have a matrix effect, before that it will just be a slightly crap version of what I have, (since the L and R buttons are used to control the up bar) you will have to tap right repeatedly to get to the last item of the list.
Even if you do have more than 6 items that only allows you to be able to move down 1 row. Addmittedly this all different if you make the icons all much larger, but then you don't even get to fit that much on one screen.
Good thing about my interface (mockup that is), is if you hit R once, GNUboy should be the item in centre of the bar expanded. And you should be able to see the 3 new icons to the side of it. That is quick, and I don't think it matters if the user can't see everything to begin with since a user who goes looking for an emulator say gp2psx will know that if it is not on the first screen it will be on the next++ screen. After a while you will learn where they all are (how many time to tap R, and right).
As I said, both list and matrix should be implemented I think. Since this seems to just be a battle of opinions and we both seem to like different things.
Edit: I'll rephrase that as "shall we just agree to differ"?

I need to go check out efegea's interface. I wonder if he would be interested in implementing anything in this thread we have discussed?

 

[DaveC]

Why have the big dead space on most of the screen? Why is that desirable to you so much?

The same reason that it is desirable for most PC users to have a sparse desktop. Looks ("Less is more" is a wellknown GUI approach also). To be honest my design doesn't give alot more dead space than yours does in all those images. I think you would need about 30-40 items to fill the main panel in your design, I don't think there ever will be that many emulators. You will get even more "deadspace" in your idea if you went into the category "video" as presuming there are films in there, you cannot fit that many films on even a 4GB card. Potentially most users who have a 1GB card could be seeing a huge void. So lets not even get into "deadspace".
Would you wanna have icons all over this wallpaper?

Good thing about my interface (mockup that is), is if you hit R once, GNUboy should be the item in centre of the bar expanded. And you should be able to see the 3 new icons to the side of it. That is quick, and I don't think it matters if the user can't see everything to begin with since a user who goes looking for an emulator say gp2psx will know that if it is not on the first screen it will be on the next++ screen. After a while you will learn where they all are (how many time to tap R, and right).
As I said, both list and matrix should be implemented I think.

I need to go check out efegea's interface.

​

The PC is different. You have a mouse that makes navigation much quicker. And when you open a window with lots of icons you resize the window larger to see more items, you don't shrink it down to one horizontal strip showing only 6 icons and then scroll through it just so you can admire the wallpaper

Yours can have 6 icons at a time, mine 20-30 depending on icon size so yes yours does have more unuseable space. Films? Does everyone have their cards filled up with films? I have none on my card, some may have alot, some few, others none. You can't limit a design with less icons because you think someone may have a small card and only have movies on it.

You can't say that mine has more dead space because you think there won't be that many emus. That logic is totally flawed. What if there is? How do you know there won't be more than 6? I have more than 6 right now. What about HB games? There will certainly be more than 20 (there already is). With yours no matter how many games you have there will still be a big dead spot and only 6 shown. With mine at least you have room to show more. Anything more than 6 and I win.

Wallpaper? I could care less. Yes I would like to cover it because that means I can see more of the stuff I want to. I don't sit there admiring wallpaper, I choose a program to load.

 

[Hanz™]

The PC is different. You have a mouse that makes navigation much quicker. And when you open a window with lots of icons you resize the window larger to see more items, you don't shrink it down to one horizontal strip showing only 6 icons and then scroll through it just so you can admire the wallpaper

I never said that this is the same as a PC, I said that the reason I liked it like this was the same. Don't compare this to a window, compare it to a desktop. A clean desktop gives your mind less to concentrate on and means you can be more efficient. Holds true with the start menu as well, too many things on the screen and it just gets confusing.

Yours can have 6 icons at a time, mine 20-30 depending on icon size so yes yours does have more unuseable space.

Yep. On your original image you could have upto 15 (if you go over then you would have to go down to see what was in the next screen - and I guess would have what you deem to my problem).
20 items in parag0n's version.
And approx. 24 in my version.
Now as I said, for anything less than the category games I doubt you will be filling a screem, and you will be leaving blankspace there which you seem to have a problem with.

Films? Does everyone have their cards filled up with films?

I believe so. It is quite popular for people to buy a PMP for watching films.

I have none on my card, some may have alot, some few, others none. You can't limit a design with less icons because you think someone may have a small card and only have movies on it.

What I was saying is that having fewer items displayed on the screen is not a limitation in my opinion. To me having the screen looking the way it does in my images just makes it all worthwhile.
A limitation in my opinion is not being able to see the filesize of an avi, of not being able to see where you got up to in that film yesterday.

You can't say that mine has more dead space because you think there won't be that many emus. That logic is totally flawed. What if there is? How do you know there won't be more than 6? I have more than 6 right now. What about HB games? There will certainly be more than 20 (there already is). With yours no matter how many games you have there will still be a big dead spot and only 6 shown. With mine at least you have room to show more. Anything more than 6 and I win.

Not true. Anything more than 6 and I scroll.

Wallpaper? I could care less. Yes I would like to cover it because that means I can see more of the stuff I want to.

Speak for yourself, I want users to have exact control on how the interface looks. What is your problem with that?

parag0n has already said he would support both types.
As I said:

As I said, both list and matrix should be implemented I think. Since this seems to just be a battle of opinions and we both seem to like different things.
Edit: I'll rephrase that as "shall we just agree to differ"?

Edit: Where is the encouragement, in another topic you said that I was a useless member and here you are cutting me down for trying to be a better member? Despite all my attempts to try and meet in the middle. You want your way to be the only way it seems.

 

[iignotus]

User-configurable interfaces all the way. List + Icon = Win. Discussion closed

 

[DaveC]

Films?  Does everyone have their cards filled up with films?

I believe so. It is quite popular for people to buy a PMP for watching films.

I have none on my card, some may have alot, some few, others none.  You can't limit a design with less icons because you think someone may have a small card and only have movies on it.

What I was saying is that having fewer items displayed on the screen is not a limitation in my opinion. To me having the screen looking the way it does in my images just makes it all worthwhile.
A limitation in my opinion is not being able to see the filesize of an avi, of not being able to see where you got up to in that film yesterday.

Wallpaper? I could care less.  Yes I would like to cover it because that means I can see more of the stuff I want to.

Speak for yourself, I want users to have exact control on how the interface looks. What is your problem with that?

parag0n has already said he would support both types.
As I said:

As I said, both list and matrix should be implemented I think. Since this seems to just be a battle of opinions and we both seem to like different things.
Edit: I'll rephrase that as "shall we just agree to differ"?

Despite all my attempts to try and meet in the middle. You want your way to be the only way it seems.

​

I think you make too many assumptions. You assume that everyone has their cards filled mostly with movies, you assume that everyone only needs or wants to see 6 things at once or only has a few things to put on their card. You assume that we need to see a big background picture instead of icons. Then you push a design that is based on these assumptions. You even go as far as saying that yes everyone has their cards filled with movies because it is a PMP. PMP? Look at this board. Does everything on here look like movies? I don't know I see alot of homebrew and emulators. I don't have a single movie on my card. You seem to be very movie oriented.

You say that you want a user to have exact control on how the interface looks. Well I want the interface to look like the image I have shown before. I can't with yours though.

You want your way and yes I want mine. You want to meet in the middle? ok how? By doing both? You know that only one method will be coded and used. They aren't going to do two. GPH has a hard enough time getting one working and stable. They will just pick one and do it. So which one?