Re-order Emails Going Out Now

[WizardStan]

So... what you get is comfort of mind, I guess. And the cost is taking time away from them actually processing the refunds and constructing the re-order e-mails.

*snip*

Thats my weekly rant... Have fun with it.

hoooo boy, where to start.
My understanding is the bank basically said "we don't trust you receiving that much money. Too much could go wrong, and then we, as the bank, would have to refund over $1'000'000". This was speculated by several, and confirmed somewhere, but I can't be bothered to find the actual post. It'll be in one of Chip's update threads.
Regarding region, if you may (or may not) recall, each region had it's own "store" where you could purchase from. This is just one reason they may have split by region.
You say you give an update every week? The Pandora team averages an update every 3 days. How would you feel if your clients were calling you once an hour asking for an update instead of waiting for your weekly report? Because that's exactly what you and many others are doing. 10 minutes is fine for a few clients, but you're talking about upwards of 4000. If even just 500 people are affected, that's still 5000 minutes; 83 hours; about 10 days, which is approximately how long they're expecting this to take. Your argument is counter-intuitive.
They've done just fine, with help from Chip, in communicating everything you could possibly need to know right now. They've given a deadline of the 14th, I don't really see what more you want them to do. You keep talking about needing to supply information, but you haven't really said what information you want that hasn't already been supplied.

Sorry to butt in here, but I got an email last week saying my money has been refunded, and that I need to repay for the Pandora. I sent an email back, asking how I should proceed with payment. But I have yet to hear back from anyone. I don't know what to do next, email again? try and phone them?

May I ask anyone who has repaid successfully, how they went about it? Did you have to repay at Craig's shop?

Any help would be appreciated

There should have been information in the re-order email on how to do a bank-to-bank transfer, which you can do right now. It'll also save the Pandora team a bit in fees. This method, however, is less safe. No one will blame you if you don't want to do a bank transfer.
If you'd rather stick with credit card, which is entirely safe, then you'll have to wait a few days more while they finish sorting out the bank issues.

 

[Chip]

They way this is being handled is do darn nonprofessional... And i have seen some serious unprofessional projects before, but its even starting to get to me...

We're not professionals. We're hobbyists. If we were professionals, we wouldn't be giving you any updates until the product was finished. Professionals don't tell you about all the trials and tribulations of product development, they just send out a press release when it's done.

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Now all that needs to be done, is make up a nice email informing those people who are effected about there status. A days work...
Everybody who is affected is getting an email. You think everybody should get two?

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O yea, the refund by location is in contrast to any logic.
...
I know, that sounds silly, but based on the amount of information we get, and how its handled, thats how things look. A big wast of time how its handled...
It only seems illogical from the outside. If you remember, the pre-ordering page was divided up into geographical regions. Depending on the region you're in, you were taken to a different URL. When taken, the orders were broken up by those regions. The ones that need to be refunded and re-ordered are being processed one region at a time.

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And to be honest, what the fuck is wrong with the bank in the first place. I'm getting tired of hearing about how they have bank problems, but we don't know anything. Explaining that alone might help put people at easy. And the "but they can't tell because of legal reasons" is bs.
Your expert opinion on British legal process is greatly appreciated. If you knew what the issues were, you'd understand why we can't explain them. But publicly explaining the situation might make it worse. Therefore we can't tell you, therefore you don't understand. It's a catch-22. You just have to trust me that changing the banks is necessary, and that we're doing it a quickly and efficiently as resources allow. All outstanding issues with the current bank have been resolved and we will be moving forward with the new bank just as soon as all refunds have been sent.

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If there are 640 LCD's a few weeks ago, whats holding up the production? There where able to produce a first batch of 500 LCD's if needed. Hell, it might even be better, because heaven forbids, if something goes wrong there, they don't end up with another 3800 busted.
If we knew why the manufacturer is slow in filling the order, we'd say so. All we know is that the order is being filled in small batches and that it will take longer than we were promised.

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You know, i have a customer here, they also wanted peace of mind. They asked to be informed of the progress on there program development. You know what, every week i send out a email detailing the changes made. Takes 10min max. Customer is happy, and informed. That same customer was also a customer in the company i used to work for ( before going freelance ). We had daily panic or angry mails from them ( and other customers ), because the bosses did not see "keeping the customers informed" as a priority ( hell, they even did not want it ).
And we post updates here every couple days. I've posted seven since the first of the month on the big list, and I answer individual questions several times a day. There is a new blog post on openpandora.org today with a picture of a stack of finished, final boards. What else do you want?

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As long as this unprofessional way of working is going to continue, they are just going to end up with more work because of it, take it form somebody who experienced it in person. And the community here need to lean NOT to blaim the people who panic, because of this way of working! And no, i did not mail about my status. But i'm getting bloody tempted, because how can they expect to ship people start of December ( in the order they ordered *lol* ), if half the people are in needs of refund, and repayment... Thats a lot of money stuck in limbo, money that can't be used to order parts, and pay manufacturing.
I'll ask you the same question I asked the last guy who posted a rambling wall-of-text complaint about the "lack of communication" - What do you want to know? Specifically, what can I tell you that I haven't posted several times already? All information that I have has been posted here as conspicuously as it can be. Everybody who is affected by the bank switch is being contacted personally through email. The re-order URL with the new bank will be posted as soon as it is available. Pandora production is already underway and none of these issues (save LCD availability) will slow it down. None of them will stop it.

 

[Prometheus]

Sorry to butt in here, but I got an email last week saying my money has been refunded, and that I need to repay for the Pandora. I sent an email back, asking how I should proceed with payment. But I have yet to hear back from anyone. I don't know what to do next, email again? try and phone them?

May I ask anyone who has repaid successfully, how they went about it? Did you have to repay at Craig's shop?

Any help would be appreciated

Don't worry. My understanding of this is that others who have responded to the e-mail haven't been replied to yet, either (I'm one of them ).

I'm going to guess that they're waiting on getting the re-ordering link set up before responding to such messages - someone quoted an e-mail from Debs which basically said that they'd let them know when the ability to re-order by credit card is up and running, but I don't have a link to the post to hand right now (I think it was a page or two back in this thread, though, if you want to look for it).

Personally, my advice would be to wait until the "All clear" is given before trying to e-mail again (as they're probably rather snowed under), if you haven't received a reply to your message by that time.

 

[Lingman]

Chip - you guys are doing fine. Especially appreciate the pics of the production boards.

One small thing that you may not have considered doing (or may have - I don't know). Since you are processing refunds by region, you must know when a particular region is done, or you'd not be on the next one.

Can you post as each region is complete, and all refund e-mails for that region have been sent? That would give a bit of extra piece of mind to those who are frothing at the mouth over a delay that's not your fault.

Cheers from Ottawa
Dan

 

[Chip]

Can you post as each region is complete, and all refund e-mails for that region have been sent? That would give a bit of extra piece of mind to those who are frothing at the mouth over a delay that's not your fault.

Some people in North America have reported getting refund emails. I'll see if I can confirm that UK / Europe refunds are finished. I'll let you know when I do.

 

[---_Won_---]

snip

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Thank you for your fast replies! very helpful indeed.


QUOTE

Personally, my advice would be to wait until the "All clear" is given before trying to e-mail again (as they're probably rather snowed under), if you haven't received a reply to your message by that time.



Yes this is what I thought, that's why I asked here instead of email/phoning. Thanks again!

 

[Lingman]

Some people in North America have reported getting refund emails. I'll see if I can confirm that UK / Europe refunds are finished. I'll let you know when I do.

Awesome. Vastly appreciated. While I'm in the NA zone, and waiting patiently, I'm sure your UK/Europe customers are going to be thrilled.

Dan.

 

[God Ginrai]

Can you post as each region is complete, and all refund e-mails for that region have been sent? That would give a bit of extra piece of mind to those who are frothing at the mouth over a delay that's not your fault.

Some people in North America have reported getting refund emails. I'll see if I can confirm that UK / Europe refunds are finished. I'll let you know when I do.


Are you serious? Could you link me to one of the posts where someone from NA confirmed getting an e-mail? This is very surprising indeed.

-God Ginrai

 

[Chip]

Are you serious? Could you link me to one of the posts where someone from NA confirmed getting an e-mail? This is very surprising indeed.
OK, so there was only one post from someone in the US claiming to get a refund email. I still don't know if this means the other regions are finished or not, but I'll let you know as soon as I find out.

 

[fairyon99]

Hi Chip, I no mean to troll here, but while mostly talking about Europe and NA, can you guys pls kindly dun miss Pandora Fans in Asia? h34r:

For I live in Asia and do CC pre-order in gbax website, now I actually check 3 times at least to forum here, openpandora web, also my inbox... do also have sent email to the team.

In person I'm ok for the re-fund re-order business, the only thing I afraid is I can't get my lovely Pandora~ Please kindly tell is Aisa re-fund mail sent when you encounter any, many many Thanks ~ :rolleyes:

 

[hereitcomes]

hmmm.. it's 8 days ago now since I received my reorder email. Did they start the refund when the email went out or were they just telling me that a refund would be happening in the near future?

 

[WhiteFalcon]

I am a bit unsure as I am in a different situation. The money returned to my account a few days ago, no problem there, but there has been no mail from the crew yet, which leads me to the conclusion it got lost somewhere on the way. I probably better mail them about it, just making a note here that the money arrived to central Europe faster than the mail.

 

[mali]

I am a bit unsure as I am in a different situation. The money returned to my account a few days ago, no problem there, but there has been no mail from the crew yet, which leads me to the conclusion it got lost somewhere on the way. I probably better mail them about it, just making a note here that the money arrived to central Europe faster than the mail.

I could imagine, that different people are working on refunding and sending mails, maybe there is a delay between the two actions. Just a guess.

 

[Pleng]

Hi Chip, I no mean to troll here, but while mostly talking about Europe and NA, can you guys pls kindly dun miss Pandora Fans in Asia? h34r:

For I live in Asia and do CC pre-order in gbax website, now I actually check 3 times at least to forum here, openpandora web, also my inbox... do also have sent email to the team.

Soebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that if you ordered from gbax, you are considered a UK customer.

 

[joa]

People shouldn't consider themselves safe until the notice that all emails have gone out. My initial order went through only a couple of minutes after the system went live. I didn't receive the email for quite some time after they'd started going out so had started to assume mine had been one of those to go through ok.

Same here, which also raised questions about whether or not i'm part of the first 600. getting in just as the pre-order went live.

In hindsight, I don't care. We're all getting one. We've been assured lines will not be lost so i'm going to stick with it, sit back and enjoy the ride.

 

[God Ginrai]

Hi Chip, I no mean to troll here, but while mostly talking about Europe and NA, can you guys pls kindly dun miss Pandora Fans in Asia? h34r:

For I live in Asia and do CC pre-order in gbax website, now I actually check 3 times at least to forum here, openpandora web, also my inbox... do also have sent email to the team.

Soebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that if you ordered from gbax, you are considered a UK customer.


North American orders went through GBAX as well, and they explicitly stated "North America" as a region that the refund e-mails would be sent to, so I don't believe that ordering from GBAX makes you a UK customer.

-God Ginrai

 

[Celvin]

Does everyone have to re-order?

I haven't received any e-mail that I have to, yet.

Edit: I'm from Norway. Does that mean I should re-order as well?

 

[jdh2550]

I'll ask you the same question I asked the last guy who posted a rambling wall-of-text complaint about the "lack of communication" - What do you want to know? Specifically, what can I tell you that I haven't posted several times already? All information that I have has been posted here as conspicuously as it can be. Everybody who is affected by the bank switch is being contacted personally through email. The re-order URL with the new bank will be posted as soon as it is available. Pandora production is already underway and none of these issues (save LCD availability) will slow it down. None of them will stop it.


Woah, there. Apparently I'm the guy who posted a "rambling wall-of-text complaint" ? Well, excuse me! Someone posted "wouldn't it be nice if we had a web page to check order status" and I said "yes, I agree". You said no we're too busy. I pressed the point that it needn't take a lot of time and effort and could be done by someone other than those on the critical path - in fact it could free up time of those on the critical path. From my perspective the only answer I got to the question of "why?" was the angry parent's mantra "BECAUSE I SAID SO". That, my friend is not really much of an answer. And, from my perspective it's not much of a complaint either...

You then said "what more information do you want me to post?" (or words to that affect). And I answered "Nothing". That's the point you don't get - I don't need or want more general status. You do a great job with that. Instead what I wanted to do was HELP - by giving those folks who wanted a specific order status a tool to do that. You wouldn't even entertain the idea - having decided with what appears to be very little analysis that the problem is too time consuming and not worth solving. And, because you carry the earned respect of the board, a lot of folks generally jump in with "yeah, what chip says" posts. That's only natural.

Your opening statements of professional vs. hobbyists is well intentioned but complete BS. Sure, it might apply to Sony or Nintendo - but it's not a professional vs. hobbyist thing at all. No reason at all why increasing the professionalism of the order process and status reporting need change anything else about the ethos of this project. (which for the umpteenth time let me state I have nothing but respect for). It's about fine tuning (and perhaps self-reflection).

I am very sorry you lost your job, and I imagine I'd be very terse and a lot less polite with folks if I were in your situation. What is your line of work? Maybe we can help you find paying employment? Good luck!

In general you do a great job with communication and moderation - I don't blame you for shutting down the threads that you do. But it is frustrating to be called a fool and not have a chance to respond - that's human nature. When someone calls me "dimmer than a black hole" I actually would rather respond than turn the other cheek. It's my choice. I had actually written most of that fire engine post in reply to that thread and when I came to actually submit the post you had already closed the thread - so I simply created a new thread. Remember, it was a joke - and I still think you were wrong about not doing an order status tool about 10 days ago...

All the best - and the best of luck. Let us know if there's a way we can help (apart from telling me not to post! )

EDIT: In fact, I encourage you to go back and read the progression of the thread - starting at my initial post. I challenge you to find how this is a negative addition to the post. Verbose, yes - I apologize for that. Negative? I don't think so. Follow on replies get less friendly when folks don't even do me the courtesy of reading what I post and/or make big assumptions simply to support their position. Not agreeing with someone != complaining. Sticking with a point for a couple more tries != whining. But yes, I sure am verbose! Guilty as charged. Stubborn? In the parlance of a recently departed VP candidate: You Betcha!

Peace.

 

[mali]

Does everyone have to re-order?

I haven't received any e-mail that I have to, yet.

Edit: I'm from Norway. Does that mean I should re-order as well?

No, not everyone will have to reorder. People that ordered through gp2x.de aren't affected at all. Some people who ordered through gbax are affected.

 

[jdh2550]

Does everyone have to re-order?

I haven't received any e-mail that I have to, yet.

Edit: I'm from Norway. Does that mean I should re-order as well?

Celvin, No not everyone needs to re-order - from an outsiders perspective it's a somewhat random subset of folks that need to re-order.

If you haven't gotten an email in a week or so (or after you see an "all re-order emails have been sent" post from Chip) then check your bank account or credit card. If you see a refund there then you will need to re-order. If you don't see that refund then you don't need to do anything.

Hope this helps.