Pyra-tan?

[rygD]

and haven't really had a negative impact on sales yet (burden of proof is on the positive claim here). 

Probably true.  Since this forum is related to a product I can see that being a concern that should be considered, especially as it relates to official mascots if one were proposed, which it hasn't yet*.  Still, the issue isn't with sales, although if ED were concerned he would probably ask that such pictures not be posted here.  


Touchy-feely consideration for others hidden here.

Spoiler

Some people are bothered, though, and, as has been stated repeatedly, people that might otherwise join or become active in discussions might feel threatened/belittled.  When those people speak up about how they feel it is pretty rude to come back with "I am not trying to be offensive/sexist/whatever, I don't feel it is bad, there is worse stuff out there, so your feelings don't matter".  Some of us care how others feel, some of us don't.  We are a small community, and I like more diversity and different opinions.  Why am I trying to break up all the fun?  Because the people that state they are bothered by these depictions are met with hostility then dismissed.  Maybe treat others as you want to be treated.

Perhaps instead of arguing about it, those that want these pics should make them and try to consider what people are bothered by (if the artist cares) and post them.  Since people will be offended either way, and those that want Pyra-tan don't care, just do it and respond to or ignore those that complain.


Pic ideas hidden here.

Spoiler

I feel that Pyra should be a female to go back to the mythical origin of the name.  Before all the arguing got silly I was going to ask if someone could make something very loosely based on the Power Suits from the Metroid series, perhaps standing in fire.  Once animals and other mascots were mentioned I thought it might be interesting to have something somewhat inspired by Beastie (something red with horns and a pointy tail to be sure to offend someone  ).  I like that style, however something in anime/manga-style could also work.  It would be cool to see a reimagining of the DragonBox "mascot" in red*.  I liked some of the ideas ible had for something somewhat related to this topic, although that was probably too simplistic to be a Pyra-tan.

*Maybe EvilDragon would accept a dragon as an official Pyra mascot.  I would like to see what FaeMinx comes up with for this.

 

[rygD]

I present: Pyra-beige (not tan)


View attachment 12607

I am out of likes.


Are those nipple-eyes?

COME ON! THAT IS AN OBVIOUS JOKE! It's CLEARLY parodying hyper-sexualized female imagery (a breast for each key? XD )!


...


BREASTS! BREASTS, EVERYWHERE!!!!!! XD

Things like that remind me of things like this:

Spoiler

 

[FelixNemis]

Are those nipple-eyes?

Don't worry, they are male nipples.

 

[moxie]

And that line gets crossed once it's drawn. At that point it becomes art, and if you're offended by an art form, it's not your place to suppress it simply because you don't agree with it.

Well, there isn't a lot of surpressing going on, is there? It is a bunch of people posting images, another bunch of people saying they dislike those images, and the first bunch of people getting their knickers in a bunch and go all defensive and screaming and calling "supression" and ranting about feminism and I don't know it all. As far as I can see. 


No, it won't ever be an official mascot (obviously) and that never was the idea (obviously). The idea of free speech and impression most certainly entails people making pretty girl antropomorph images symbolizing their gadgets (obviously, as long as it keeps on the legal side), and it also entails people voicing their opinion on those images and the practice as a whole (ought to be equally obvious, but apparently it is difficult for some). 


To me, the whole idea of this is faintly embarrassing, in about the same way as you feel about a colleague who gets too drunk at the friday beer and starts staring down the tops of your female workmates. It has a smell of forever alone that is a bit unpleasant, and one really hoped that one wouldn't have to relate to it. But, well, to each his own. 


It does remind me of the very funny interview with a poor kid sometime back in the -80s home computer boom. Something like


Grown-up reporter: Men är det inte väldigt ensamt?


Kid: Nädå - När jag känner mig ensam sätter jag på min dator.


Rougly translated: 


- But isn't it a very lonely pastime?


- Oh no. When I'm feeling lonely, I get my computer turned on. 


Or something like that. It was funny at the time. Simpler days, those were. 

 

[PokeParadox]

I showed my wife the Pandora pictures and she said they are cute and she likes them. Just saying.

 

[DaMummy]

It's OK to not like things, just don't be a dick about it.

 

[moxie]

It's OK to not like things, just don't be a dick about it.

That's what i fear about this proposed male antropomorph - That somehow it'll be a dick.

 

[Løra (Lolla)]

@ImmaculateChimp: With all due respect, I think you need to calm yourself down just a tad. You seem to be raging all over your keyboard (caps etc), which is highly unnecessary. 


You should also take the time to note that it's one thing to have a discussion, opinion, debate;  but it's quite another to mock and laugh at those who have a differing opinion. That, in my opinion, is highly disrespectful and absolutely not befitting from a member of the community. We *are all* members of this same community and should be supporting one another - whether they be male or female, younger or older members - not ridiculing. If there are members who find this offensive - and there have been a handful if not more - then that should matter. That should be enough to perhaps tell you that maybe this is not the place for these specific pics. There are, of course, other places all over the internet for you to post; should you feel you're being censored. 


I was under the impression that this thread was about finding a mascot; if I was mistaken, then fair enough. However, it still doesn't change my stance. 


And this goes for all of you getting angry at those who found the pics offensive: just chill and stop making people feel bad for feeling bad about something, and for sharing that opinion/view. 


Peace

 

[Night]

• Since people will be offended either way, and those that want Pyra-tan don't care, just do it and respond to or ignore those that complain.
  
• Because the people that state they are bothered by these depictions are met with hostility then dismissed.  Maybe treat others as you want to be treated.
  

I agree on not caring and just focusing on the Pyra-tan but I don't know man, maybe it's just me and some weird prescription i had at the moment, but by how it looked to me the thread was about to get hijacked. I mean, why would the same thing have to be repeated at least 3 times in a row in order to get through that "Okay, we get your opinion, no revealing clothes. Btw sexualization was never the point to begin with and is not what the exmaple implies" and still have the same argument going after the point was already made? I mean that's not the ideal thing to do in a discussion where it is supposed that community ideas should emerge.

The Prussia one is probably the most offensive due to sheer idiocy.

Care to eleborate? what parts of it were not to your liking?

Ok, I JUST clicked that link for ZXDunny's shinning example of Pandora-tan filth........


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


HILARIOUS!!!!

Dude.. no. I can see how that was a joke, but even then that's pushing it quite a bit (in my opinion).

To me, the whole idea of this is faintly embarrassing, in about the same way as you feel about a colleague who gets too drunk at the friday beer and starts staring down the tops of your female workmates. It has a smell of forever alone that is a bit unpleasant, and one really hoped that one wouldn't have to relate to it. But, well, to each his own. 

I don't know, i think you've lost the point here. Try thinking of this as if your colleague got drunk but doesn't stare at anyones tops. Instead, he goes all out and does something completely unpredicted that at first might appear embarrassing, but ends up being fun and amusing (not in a bad way) for mostly everyone.

 

[ImmaculateChimp]

@ImmaculateChimp: With all due respect, I think you need to calm yourself down just a tad. You seem to be raging all over your keyboard (caps etc), which is highly unnecessary. 


You should also take the time to note that it's one thing to have a discussion, opinion, debate;  but it's quite another to mock and laugh at those who have a differing opinion. That, in my opinion, is highly disrespectful and absolutely not befitting from a member of the community. We *are all* members of this same community and should be supporting one another - whether they be male or female, younger or older members - not ridiculing. If there are members who find this offensive - and there have been a handful if not more - then that should matter. That should be enough to perhaps tell you that maybe this is not the place for these specific pics. There are, of course, other places all over the internet for you to post; should you feel you're being censored. 


I was under the impression that this thread was about finding a mascot; if I was mistaken, then fair enough. However, it still doesn't change my stance. 


And this goes for all of you getting angry at those who found the pics offensive: just chill and stop making people feel bad for feeling bad about something, and for sharing that opinion/view. 


Peace

Some people use DIFFERENT mEtHoDs to add (emphasis) to *their* -->writing<--, see what I did there? I apologize if the styles I've went with so far bother you, let me know which you ones you prefer and I'll use those instead. I guess I understand CAPS is often considered internet shorthand for shouting, but this is getting frustrating for me and that wasn't how I was using it.


If you pay attention to the order in which I wrote those sentences you should have noticed that I wasn't laughing at ZXDuny, I was laughing heartily at the ridiculous omni-breasted Pandora-tan.


Also, He was using omni-breasted Pandora-tan as his primary example in his crusade of just how bad, over-sexualized, perverted, & wrong the Pandora-tans are without understanding the intent of the illustration in the first place was essentially agreeing with him (irony, right?). He also hasn't been the most polite and understanding of my views either(coming outright and saying I want to shag Pandora-tans & Pyra-tans, I have stated many times I do not). I never said anything about a mascot in the thread, I don't know where any of you came up with that idea, or why most refuse to drop that notion..


And last but not least, if I am not permitted to post a thread solely intended for people to discuss and post (entirely harmless) pictures of potential  Pyra-tans, on a forum created and maintained specifically for the express purpose of people who are interested in the Pandora/Pyra (without it being hijacked and being harassed by the social justice warriors), then where the hell am I free to post it, hmm? Moderators are usually supposed to step in and split off de-railed discussions and/or calm down this sort of mess that's been created, not antagonize the situation by pushing their agenda.

 

[ImmaculateChimp]

Dude.. no. I can see how that was a joke, but even then that's pushing it quite a bit (in my opinion).

I believe the whole point of it was to push it to the extreme to parody over-sexualization. Take a look at the expression on her face, it's pure bewilderment.


And yes, I laugh out loud every time I see that hooker in Total Recall.

 

[Løra (Lolla)]

@ImmaculateChimpMods are also allowed to share and voice opinions as is every othermember of the community. 


And I said "fair enough" about the mascot thing. 


It also, wasn't just the laughing thing I was referring to, but the fact that the whole tone of your posts thus far have seemed like anger and ridicule. Again, if that's not the case, then fair enough; that's been my misunderstanding. Perhaps it's better to just leave this here, as I don't think we're going to agree. 


Also, what is this "social justice warriors/SJW" thing used in a derogatory sense?  Thank goodness we've had such people throughout history, or times would be very different now.

 

[Night]

Also, what is this "social justice warriors/SJW" thing used in a derogatory sense?  Thank goodness we've had such people throughout history, or times would be very different now.

Okay before this derails any further, please allow me to stop it here.


@Løra, the title "SJW" ImmaculateChimp refered to is not what the name might suggest, it also has a lot of Interent drama loaded behind it which if discussed further might derail this thread even further off-topic. So please, let us refain from discussing it here.


@ImmaculateChimp, i highly doubt Løra was trying to act like one, she just voiced her opinion and it got off the wrong way for some reason, please let it go and don't escelate this any further or this thread will go down the drainer.

I believe the whole point of it was to push it to the extreme to parody over-sexualization. Take a look at the expression on her face, it's pure bewilderment.


And yes, I laugh out loud every time I see that hooker in Total Recall.

Yes i know dude, but that's not the kind of black humour that's favoured here.. as you may have noticed, It's better if it's avoided.

 

[ImmaculateChimp]

Ok, no problem. However, I think this thread died within the first fourth of the first page..it just doesn't realize it yet.

 

[rygD]

I agree on not caring and just focusing on the Pyra-tan but I don't know man, maybe it's just me and some weird prescription i had at the moment, but by how it looked to me the thread was about to get hijacked. I mean, why would the same thing have to be repeated at least 3 times in a row in order to get through that "Okay, we get your opinion, no revealing clothes. Btw sexualization was never the point to begin with and is not what the exmaple implies" and still have the same argument going after the point was already made?

It was "hijacked" by the 6th post, with several people stating after that point that they didn't like the pics because of how they can be interpreted by others (and misrepresent the community) or simply because they personally felt they were insulting/degrading/offensive.  Again, it doesn't matter what was intended by an image, but how others feel about it.  Try looking at it from the point of view of someone else.  This is why I moved a sculpture from the front room of my house. 

Spoiler

(I live in a particularly hardcore Christian area, and this sculpture may seem pagan or Satanic, plus it includes a portion resembling female nudity, so lots of stuff there if people have a problem with that...funny thing is it is actually a depiction of an extraterrestrial alien mentioned in horror/science fiction stories, and is in some sense a pagan fertility idol, as well as a statement against religion, so those people would be right in their own minds.  Oh, and for those that know about the stories, or at least the author, there is more to be offended by with plenty of xenophobia, racism, classism, and probably much more.  It doesn't bother my family, but it might bother guests. To me it is something weird and interesting to look at that reminds me of stories I am a huge fan of.  There is more to it than my interpretation.  I don't mind pissing people off, but it is probably not a great idea to have that as one of the first things people see when entering the house.  Why offend or give friends of family members the wrong idea?  That is also where I stand on Pyra-tan.  People have stated it bothers them for various reasons, so there is no doubt if something in the style of the Pandora-tans earlier in the thread is offensive, as there is in the case of a weird looking sculpture.)

We don't get to decide if other people are offended by what we do/make/display.  We only get to decide on if we will do it knowing it bothers others.

And last but not least, if I am not permitted to post a thread solely intended for people to discuss and post (entirely harmless) pictures of potential  Pyra-tans

Then discuss and post pics.  Let others do the same.  Don't get so upset because they bother some  people.  If you can't handle it then maybe you should tally that as one of those ideas that didn't work out.

then where the hell am I free to post it, hmm? 

If you don't want to deal with the heat it is generating here and you still want to work with others you can use PMs or IRC.  Alternately, you can ignore those that have a problem with the -tans, but that won't stop them from stating their opinion.

Moderators are usually supposed to step in and split off de-railed discussions and/or calm down this sort of mess that's been created, not antagonize the situation by pushing their agenda.

Usually the moderators use bold green text when speaking/typing in an official capacity.  While I have been told not to derail some threads, usually the moderators let conversations develop naturally, especially in the off-topic section.  


Thanks for not using an iron fist mods, even when I push the limits.  Also, thanks for being involved in conversations and not just hiding in the background and only being moderators.

that's not the kind of black humour that's favoured here.. as you may have noticed, It's better if it's avoided.

It sucks, doesn't it.   (no sarcasm or anything here, I like messed up humor/jokes)

However, I think this thread died within the first fourth of the first page..

I think you are right.  I would like to see what people come up with related to the things I described in post #81 if anyone wants to give one of those a shot.

 

[Night]

It was "hijacked" by the 6th post, with several people stating after that point that they didn't like the pics because of how they can be interpreted by others (and misrepresent the community) or simply because they personally felt they were insulting/degrading/offensive.

Man, no wonder people got confused. If the example itself was offensive then someone should have said it like that, the way it was phrased and discussed made me think people found the general idea behind the thread itself as offensive.. bloddy misunderstandings, everytime.

 

[ImmaculateChimp]

How can we be free to post and discuss Pyra-tan stuff if inconsiderate people keep clogging the thread with antagonistic ..stuff? If you all don't like it, why not make your own thread where you can talk about that all you want? What if Evil Dragon made a Pyra update thread and a handful of jerks decided to clog the whole thing up page after page of "oh gee! I just love wearing purple socks!!!" <-- that would be viewed as nothing more than SPAM, and hopefully be deleted, so relevant discussion could freely take place uninterrupted, yet here it is allowed to flourish... at this rate, if people choose to put Pyra-tan pictures here, it'll be like one picture buried in between a page and a half of SPAM, over and over... That is a minority trying to hide/bury/censor something that they don't like, trying to force others to do things THEIR way, because their way is the only way.

 

[Night]

That is a minority trying to hide/bury/censor something that they don't like, trying to force others to do things THEIR way, because their way is the only way.

If that were the case, the mods would probably be just erasing content and shadow-banning people for posting stuff (like was seen elsewhere), this looked more like a bunch of misunderstandings if you ask me.


For what it's worth, what do you guys say we just drop it and carry on?


@rygD: What do you think about a type of uniform (not necessary in the military/school sense) instead of a Power Armour-styled suit? I think having an armour could work (with a dragon theme for example) but might be too bulky looking.

 

[ImmaculateChimp]

From post one it was obvious that this was just an art thread, not a sexism debate. It has been clogged with SPAM.


yes, let's just all forget it, that way relevant Pyra-tan stuff can start...four pages in...


What if someone made a new Pyra-tan thread that also had a disclaimer that clearly stated that: "This thread is intended for artistic expression only. It is not meant to be a forum for debate for over-sexualization or sexism nor is it meant to create a defacto mascot." (not that that should even be necessary). Would it be allowed to exist without a vocal minority destroying it? If not, then that is a form of ongoing oppression, because we don't like what they like.

 

[rygD]

How can we be free to post and discuss Pyra-tan stuff if inconsiderate people keep clogging the thread with antagonistic ..stuff? 

You mean like the sort of stuff that always happens on the internet, including these forums?  You either ignore it or respond and move on (or not...MOAR RAMS  ).

What if Evil Dragon made a Pyra update thread and a handful of jerks decided to clog the whole thing up page after page of "oh gee! I just love wearing purple socks!!!" <-- that would be viewed as nothing more than SPAM, and hopefully be deleted, so relevant discussion could freely take place uninterrupted, yet here it is allowed to flourish...

This often happens in the update threads, with the bulk of the discussions being only loosely based on the news.  I am one of those jerks, obviously, and I even remember talking about a t-shirt he wore in one of the videos.  My posts were probably not deleted so you should be able to find where I was talking about it, as well as a bunch of other off topic and unrelated stuff in the official news threads.

at this rate, if people choose to put Pyra-tan pictures here, it'll be like one picture buried in between a page and a half of SPAM, over and over...

You could always just update the first post with the pics.  I kinda doubt this will explode like the keyboard threads, but we can always try.

@rygD: What do you think about a type of uniform (not necessary in the military/school sense) instead of a Power Armour-styled suit? I think having an armour could work (with a dragon theme for example) but might be too bulky looking.

Honestly, I am quite in favor of military uniforms, especially combat ones.  Actual uniforms, though, not the type of stuff sometimes seen in some anime and video games, etc.  Traditional plate armour might be cool too, and could probably fit the dragon theme a little better.  Fantasy armour would be great  (I had a stupid idea to see if someone could make a Pyra character that could be used in games, and that armor gives me a few ideas on games, not that I have the skills or time to make such a game).  My main reason for wanting something like the suits in Metroid is that I am a huge science fiction fan, I love those types of suits, and for some reason I associate the Pyra with things like that.  A BFG is more my thing than a massive sword, but maybe some sort of energy blade?


After looking at the pic you linked to I am reminded of the suit Xanatos had on Gargoyles.  Not sure if something like that appeals to you.